Anyone have floor problems in ultralight trailer?

[EcoBullet]

Today I was looking at a local dealership and a salesman told me they quit carrying ultralight trailers like the Bullet because after a few years the floors get spongy since they are so flimsily built. This makes no sense to me. Our Bullet is not very old, but it has caused no problem, unlike it's predecessor, which leaked through the slide and the floor developed a VERY soft spot and was no older than our Bullet is now.

I think the salesman is full of it. What do you think?

BTW, the Bullet has been a good trailer, but we are planning to downsize since we are now empty-nesters and don't need the bunkroom.

[hvac]

Factory called this week to better understand things like keeping bright metal on rock guards and sides but still keeping the black out option in effect. Nice personal touch, twin beds will be same set up as 16 tb with center cabinet and surrounding ceiling cabinets. They are struggling with deletion of Awnings, but my travel is usually 30 days, 2-5k miles and most of the time moving. Awnings for me have been more trouble than anything. The insulation is spray and expensive, about 1k. They claim it makes a huge difference, time will tell. It can only help.

Delivery in about 3 weeks. I am always interested in how yours handle, plenty of tow vehicle. I asked him about sway control.They use trucks like ours and never see the need, but each his own. Speaks volumes, told how the Airstream was swaying monster, just laughed. Airstream owns them now so no comment.

[djsamuel]

hvac wrote:
Well folks this subject is close to my heart. Many RVs over 30 years or so. The one that hurt the most was the spongy floor in a 2004 28 Airstream. That did it.

Experimented with a 16 camp lite. Exceeded expectations. Just ordered a new custom floor plan 21 with full rear bath. If you have time, check out the floor and overall construction. Soggy floor no more..

If you have a soft floor with the Camplite, you're in trouble! 🙂

We love our 21BHS. I remember from your previous posts that your are getting the underfloor insulation. Is this the spray on? Your other mods sound great. Hope you're as happy with the 21RBS as we are with our 21BHS.

Doug

[hvac]

Well folks this subject is close to my heart. Many RVs over 30 years or so. The one that hurt the most was the spongy floor in a 2004 28 Airstream. That did it.

Experimented with a 16 camp lite. Exceeded expectations. Just ordered a new custom floor plan 21 with full rear bath. If you have time, check out the floor and overall construction. Soggy floor no more..

[westend]

GrandpaKip wrote:

Lantley wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:

WoodGlue wrote:
When you're talking about mushy floors, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of those floors affected are using OSB! OSB and Luaun are a set-up for a failing floor.

WoodGlue

I'll take that bet, any amount. Considering how long OSB has been around, my guess would be that the vast majority of floor problems in RVs have occurred to a plywood floor. And still do today. I couldn't begin to count how many plywood roofs, floors, and walls I've repaired due to rot. Way more than OSB. Water is the most destructive force on Earth. There isn't much of any common material that handle being continually wet without losing structural ability.

PS Lauan is a plywood and, when used to its design parameters, is every bit as good as anything else in the same application.

Agreed. People are very misinformed concerning OSB because its very convenient to group it into one large category.
OSB comes in a lot of different variations, initially there were problems with the 1st generations of OSB however Advantech and other OSB products are superior in many ways.

Lauan plywood is not a bad product either however it is often misused.
It is inexpensive and easy to work with however it is not the cure all universal product that uninformed installers try to make it out to be.

It's all about using the correct product for the application.

Hallalejah! Somebody else who knows what they are talking about! And realizes there are no absolutes. The next round of Guiness is on me.

And I'll get the next round!
I think some folks, like mentioned, are thinking about flake board or particle board, when OSB is used. It is not the same.
Lately, I've even seen the treated blue sheet goods used in exterior wall sheathing, a product that is supposed to mitigate cavity wall moisture. IME, if the wall of a structure is built well, there won't be any severe moisture issues.
A lot of these products are based on consumer perception of issues they will never see. I think the same could be said of floor problems. As long as water isn't leaking onto the floor, into the walls, or flooding the interior, nearly all RV'ers won't have a problem.

As to Ms. Wood Glue's take on material science, she should look a little further than Lance videos and market-speak. FWIW, I have a very nice yard barn that has unpainted Luaun doors. I did spread some leftover varnish on them five or so years ago. Since then, they have been directly exposed to the weather.

[GrandpaKip]

Lantley wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:

WoodGlue wrote:
When you're talking about mushy floors, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of those floors affected are using OSB! OSB and Luaun are a set-up for a failing floor.

WoodGlue

I'll take that bet, any amount. Considering how long OSB has been around, my guess would be that the vast majority of floor problems in RVs have occurred to a plywood floor. And still do today. I couldn't begin to count how many plywood roofs, floors, and walls I've repaired due to rot. Way more than OSB. Water is the most destructive force on Earth. There isn't much of any common material that handle being continually wet without losing structural ability.

PS Lauan is a plywood and, when used to its design parameters, is every bit as good as anything else in the same application.

Agreed. People are very misinformed concerning OSB because its very convenient to group it into one large category.
OSB comes in a lot of different variations, initially there were problems with the 1st generations of OSB however Advantech and other OSB products are superior in many ways.

Lauan plywood is not a bad product either however it is often misused.
It is inexpensive and easy to work with however it is not the cure all universal product that uninformed installers try to make it out to be.

It's all about using the correct product for the application.

Hallalejah! Somebody else who knows what they are talking about! And realizes there are no absolutes. The next round of Guiness is on me.

[LarryJM]

myredracer wrote:
Water damage to a floor can be extreme and unexpected like this water damage. I saw a youtube video recently where someone had their toilet valve fail while they were out for the day. The flooding caused such extensive serious damage, the insurance co. wrote it off.

When does an insurance company cover water damage?

LarryJM wrote:

That issue about the underbelly access is easily and for a moderate cost fixable ... take a look at what I did CLICKY

Larry

Thanks for the link to your interesting photos. Kind of what I expected might be behind the coroplast. Why did you remove it? Did you see anything to do with the frame that didn't look quite right?

We want to install Horst Miracle probes on our tanks but the way they install the coroplast by sitting it on top of the I-beam flanges, you can't just pull it back as needed to get in. Looks like it would be a major project to remove and re-install it for any reason.

Due to a really poor frame paint job, I had to completely wire brush, prime and paint my entire frame and in a way was glad I did since I fixed a lot of what I would call issues, re-routed things like I think they should have been done and added a significant amount of extra insulation. It took a couple of weeks working a couple of hours every couple of days to get it done, but a lot of that was figuring out how to do things, creating the panels, drilling and retapping holes for the nylon bolts, etc.

I also found the supports for the fresh water tank were loose and I added extra cross supports in the middle of the grey and black tank to reduce the sag in the middle. The poor paint job on the frame was the major one, but in other R-Vision trailers the fresh water tanks have been know to "DROP" on their own creating a real mess. Even on this site there have been several threads about black tanks doing the "DROP" routine unexpectedly with HUGE consequences and messes so while rare it does happen and will sure ruin both you day and vacation. All in all it was about what I expected in a typically mass produced cost driven TT.


Larry

[myredracer]

Water damage to a floor can be extreme and unexpected like this water damage. I saw a youtube video recently where someone had their toilet valve fail while they were out for the day. The flooding caused such extensive serious damage, the insurance co. wrote it off.

When does an insurance company cover water damage?

LarryJM wrote:

That issue about the underbelly access is easily and for a moderate cost fixable ... take a look at what I did CLICKY

Larry

Thanks for the link to your interesting photos. Kind of what I expected might be behind the coroplast. Why did you remove it? Did you see anything to do with the frame that didn't look quite right?

We want to install Horst Miracle probes on our tanks but the way they install the coroplast by sitting it on top of the I-beam flanges, you can't just pull it back as needed to get in. Looks like it would be a major project to remove and re-install it for any reason.

[shakyjay]

Can and do Ultralights get mushy floors? Yes

Can and do "Conventional RVs" get mushy floors? Yes

Can and do stick & brick houses get mushy floors? Yes

In each case the reasons can be pretty much the same. Some, not all, suffer from poor construction materials and or techniques. All too often though the culprit is some form of water damage.

[Pool]

Did a one foot Indian type dance this morning looking for soft or weak spots around the trailer this morning. At 140 lbs it may be had to find.

[DiskDoctr]

Here's a link from NACHI comparing OSB to Plywood. Not TT specific, but fairly straightforward.

http://www.nachi.org/osb-plywood.htm

IMHO, floor bracing dimensions, placement, thickness, etc has as much or more of an impact on floor stability as osb/plywood.

For example, our Starcraft has a soft spot near the entrance. When I check underneath, there isn't any water damage or issues, but the spot is directly over the fresh water tank, which means there aren't any flor braces there. It's barely noticeable, but I was 'inspecting' when I first noticced it.

I may add a brace there some day. I've read about some dealers adding a brace over the tanks in some models of RVs to strengthen floors, and IIRC some actually called for braces to be there but were omitted.

Water is definitely the enemy, osb/plywood/etc. Plywood wicks water from the edges readily, osb stay wet longer, plywood is more likely to return to original dimensions when dried than osb, plywood has more voids than osb, etc.

I do agree with those who say that 'Ultralight' does not necessarily mean 'Cheaply built' but in some cases it does.

[Lantley]

GrandpaKip wrote:

WoodGlue wrote:
When you're talking about mushy floors, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of those floors affected are using OSB! OSB and Luaun are a set-up for a failing floor.

WoodGlue

I'll take that bet, any amount. Considering how long OSB has been around, my guess would be that the vast majority of floor problems in RVs have occurred to a plywood floor. And still do today. I couldn't begin to count how many plywood roofs, floors, and walls I've repaired due to rot. Way more than OSB. Water is the most destructive force on Earth. There isn't much of any common material that handle being continually wet without losing structural ability.

PS Lauan is a plywood and, when used to its design parameters, is every bit as good as anything else in the same application.

Agreed. People are very misinformed concerning OSB because its very convenient to group it into one large category.
OSB comes in a lot of different variations, initially there were problems with the 1st generations of OSB however Advantech and other OSB products are superior in many ways.

Lauan plywood is not a bad product either however it is often misused.
It is inexpensive and easy to work with however it is not the cure all universal product that uninformed installers try to make it out to be.

It's all about using the correct product for the application.

[GrandpaKip]

WoodGlue wrote:
When you're talking about mushy floors, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of those floors affected are using OSB! OSB and Luaun are a set-up for a failing floor.

WoodGlue

I'll take that bet, any amount. Considering how long OSB has been around, my guess would be that the vast majority of floor problems in RVs have occurred to a plywood floor. And still do today. I couldn't begin to count how many plywood roofs, floors, and walls I've repaired due to rot. Way more than OSB. Water is the most destructive force on Earth. There isn't much of any common material that handle being continually wet without losing structural ability.

PS Lauan is a plywood and, when used to its design parameters, is every bit as good as anything else in the same application.

[LarryJM]

myredracer wrote:
One thing about overall floor and frame construction I don't like is with all the enclosed under-bellies these days, you have absolutely no idea how well things were designed or how good the workmanship is. I'd love to see what the joists, frame and everything else looks like under our TT or ones on a dealer's lot, but I can't.

It's great for the manufacturers because they can hide all kinds of problems under the coroplast. They can call the construction heavy duty or whatever they want, but what does it really look like? And if it's related to the frame in any way, they just direct you to the frame manufacturer to duke it out with.

I was at one RV show last year and I was jumping (lightly) on the floor in one TT with a BAL/Norco Ultra-frame to see how solid it felt (I'm not a heavy person either at well under 200 lbs). Some guy came in who I'm pretty sure was a dealer or factory rep. and he freaked out and said don't do that or you can go through the floor. Maybe he knows something the rest of us don't. Not very re-assuring if that's all it takes to go through a TT floor.

That issue about the underbelly access is easily and for a moderate cost fixable ... take a look at what I did CLICKY

Larry

[westend]

WoodGlue wrote:
When you're talking about mushy floors, I'd be willing to bet that 99% of those floors affected are using OSB! OSB and Luaun are a set-up for a failing floor.

WoodGlue

What?

So you're saying that every floor that is made with OSB is bound to fail or that every OSB floor that gets some water on it is going to fail? And you're condemning Lauan plywood with it, also?

Is this because Lance trailers have a plywood floor and everything else is forbidden?