Buying SUV and Trailer at the same time - what to get?

[chaoticneutral]

I'm so complicated, I'm sorry, but I need somebody with experience to help. I'm getting a decent sized settlement in the next few months, and at that time I'll be buying a new SUV and used trailer. I just don't know what to get. We have a 4Runner right now, but it wouldn't tow enough. I was looking at the Explorer, which might work for my needs. I'm trying to get a new SUV that has not horrible gas mileage. I only live 4 miles from work, so I'm not horribly worried about gas, but don't want a humongous truck (trucks are ugly). I don't want a Flex or anything really square because I think they're ugly.

We have a family of 3. I want a separate area for my husband and I vs. our daughter to sleep. We're big Renaissance Faire geeks and spend many weekends camping, where there is partying going on. We spend at least 8 weekends a year just doing that. This trailer would be dropped off and left there for about 6 weeks straight. And as long as I can afford it, I'll take this to Burning Man at least once so my husband can go (I've been, he hasn't). A couple of the weekends will be up in Tahoe in June, where it's really cold and sometimes snows in June. So it has to be able to get up into that area.

I've been told by a few people to get a trailer instead of an RV. Why? It seems like the cost difference in getting a smaller SUV that gets better gas mileage might make up for the costs of an RV. I need your expert opinions on that.

What kind of trailer could I tow with an Explorer? I was looking at the TrailManors. They're a great size, but they're not very common. Anybody have one of these, how is the quality? While the size is good, it would be nice to get a trailer that doesn't need to pop up so I can just keep everything in place and not have to set it all up and make sure the "stuff" is where it belongs.

Another issue is storage. We have a long driveway that would fit this, but getting into the driveway is an issue as it's very narrow. No room for messing up or I'll run into a fence or bushes. It seems an RV would be easier to put in the driveway.

If you could get a vehicle and RV or trailer, what would you get?

[Technologiq]

I'm partial to the setup I just got. I have 3 kids who like to bring friends and the wife and sometimes the dogs. I love the Excursion an was able to find one in like new condition with VERY low miles. The floorplan of our trailer works great too.

[krobbe]

bazaarsoft wrote:

krobbe wrote:
The Nissan Armada payload is 1400lb max. Your loaded up TT will be about 8000lbs with a tongue wt of about 1040lbs. Passengers and cargo at about 500lbs. With 1540lbs on it, unfortunately your truck will be over loaded.

Well, after looking into this further, turns out that according to the tire and loading sticker on the Armada it's actually 1543lbs (which jives with what I've found online), so even if krobbe's numbers are right (and I don't believe he is) we're still good from the payload perspective. It's amazing that there don't appear to be any public scales in the Austin Metro area. The nearest cat scale is about 55 miles away (from me - I live north of Austin). I'm hoping that a truck stop that's a bit closer has one. Next time I'm going by one of the cat scales I'll check it.

Honestly though, I'm less concerned about the overall weight than the tongue weight - not because I'm concerned about the total payload, but rather that the tongue weight is significantly over Nissan's rating of 910lbs. To that end, I've ordered a tongue scale so that when I'm loading I can make sure that I'm sticking as close to that weight as much as possible.

Yes..1543# is correct for the 2011 Armada. The 1400# payload I quoted was for 2007-09. Either way, I'm glad you are aware of how close your numbers are to max capacity. When loading up the TT, don't try to lighten up the tongue wt beyond 13% of the trailers loaded wt. That will be a recipe for sway.
Stay thirsty my friends...:C

[bazaarsoft]

PopsRacer wrote:

bazaarsoft wrote:

krobbe wrote:
The Nissan Armada payload is 1400lb max. Your loaded up TT will be about 8000lbs with a tongue wt of about 1040lbs. Passengers and cargo at about 500lbs. With 1540lbs on it, unfortunately your truck will be over loaded.

Unloaded weight of the trailer is 6325lbs, making loaded weight closer to 7600lbs. Tongue weight is much more like 950lbs. Going with your estimate of 500lbs cargo weight that makes 1450lbs which happens to be the payload for the 2011 Armada. Sure, it's close, so I guess time will tell if it's a problem or not.

I would hit the scales for $10 so you're not having to guess your numbers, they're often off a bit.

http://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator?postalcode=&city=austin&state=TX&miles=9&cmdSearch=Search

Well, after looking into this further, turns out that according to the tire and loading sticker on the Armada it's actually 1543lbs (which jives with what I've found online), so even if krobbe's numbers are right (and I don't believe he is) we're still good from the payload perspective. It's amazing that there don't appear to be any public scales in the Austin Metro area. The nearest cat scale is about 55 miles away (from me - I live north of Austin). I'm hoping that a truck stop that's a bit closer has one. Next time I'm going by one of the cat scales I'll check it.

Honestly though, I'm less concerned about the overall weight than the tongue weight - not because I'm concerned about the total payload, but rather that the tongue weight is significantly over Nissan's rating of 910lbs. To that end, I've ordered a tongue scale so that when I'm loading I can make sure that I'm sticking as close to that weight as much as possible.

[Mike_Up]

chaoticneutral wrote:
I'm so complicated, I'm sorry, but I need somebody with experience to help. I'm getting a decent sized settlement in the next few months, and at that time I'll be buying a new SUV and used trailer. I just don't know what to get. We have a 4Runner right now, but it wouldn't tow enough. I was looking at the Explorer, which might work for my needs. I'm trying to get a new SUV that has not horrible gas mileage. I only live 4 miles from work, so I'm not horribly worried about gas, but don't want a humongous truck (trucks are ugly). I don't want a Flex or anything really square because I think they're ugly.

We have a family of 3. I want a separate area for my husband and I vs. our daughter to sleep. We're big Renaissance Faire geeks and spend many weekends camping, where there is partying going on. We spend at least 8 weekends a year just doing that. This trailer would be dropped off and left there for about 6 weeks straight. And as long as I can afford it, I'll take this to Burning Man at least once so my husband can go (I've been, he hasn't). A couple of the weekends will be up in Tahoe in June, where it's really cold and sometimes snows in June. So it has to be able to get up into that area.

I've been told by a few people to get a trailer instead of an RV. Why? It seems like the cost difference in getting a smaller SUV that gets better gas mileage might make up for the costs of an RV. I need your expert opinions on that.

What kind of trailer could I tow with an Explorer? I was looking at the TrailManors. They're a great size, but they're not very common. Anybody have one of these, how is the quality? While the size is good, it would be nice to get a trailer that doesn't need to pop up so I can just keep everything in place and not have to set it all up and make sure the "stuff" is where it belongs.

Another issue is storage. We have a long driveway that would fit this, but getting into the driveway is an issue as it's very narrow. No room for messing up or I'll run into a fence or bushes. It seems an RV would be easier to put in the driveway.

If you could get a vehicle and RV or trailer, what would you get?

Ok, I'd say rule out canvas (synthetic) living areas since you seem more of a 'hoteler' instead of a camper. No disrespect but camping IMO is getting back to nauture, not partying. That actually what I try to get away from. So you'll want some noise insulation and amenities as you are really just there for the stay and party.

So that rules out Hybrids and Pop Ups.

That trailermanor is very VERY overpriced IMO and I've read about reliabilty issues with them. Before considering research as there's some real negatives as their built in porta potty that doesn't use a black tank and their narrow interiors.

You didn't say how much your drive for these parties but I tradionally don't recommend motorhomes unless you're retired and plan to drive and stay away from home months at a time. The idea of pulling a car behind is a big turnoff. The engine, drivetrain, chassis upkeep of a heavy duty vehicle is expensive. More so in diesels and dually configurations. Then you have the costs of another vehicle behind you. 2 vehicles to pay on for what, a bit more convenience to move around in the motorhome while traveling, which is ILLEGAL almost everywhere.

For people wanting to retire or travel months at a time, I feel going with a 5th wheel is the way to go. I like the more house like configurations of a 5th wheel and it's more easy to drive than a very long wheelbase truck with a long hang over, besides the car being pulled behind.

In your case since you guys sound like you're just want to be out to party, I would get a travel trailer that would suite your amenity needs. You stated weights but that doesn't make a difference since you stated no floorplan or bedding and seating needs.

First you want a "TRUCK" based vehicle, and forget about those stupid tow ratings until after everything else is considered. They mean little when towing a travel trailer due to it's heavy hitch weight and tall/wide profile.

The reason for a truck based vehicle is mainly for "HITCH WEIGHT RATING" as most crossover vehicles don't have but 10% hitch rating of their tow rating. Truck based vehicles usuually have more. My truck has a 9300 lbs tow rating with a 1050 lbs hitchrating. Besides most truck based vehicles have a much higher payload rating which is essential for towing a travel trailer.

You really need to find what you plan to travel with as far as "PEOPLE" weight and gear weight. Unless you plan to buy a 3/4 ton truck, I don't recommend carrying firewood. Even though you're mainly going to events, typical campgrounds ban firewood transport on to their property due to the Emerald Ash Bore beatle.

So if you're family of 3 has a total weight of 550 lbs and you plan to bring 150 lbs of gear/stuff (tools, electronics, bikes, outdoor games, portable tanks) in your vehicle that all had to be added up. So that would be 700 lbs.

Find the vehicles "ACTUAL" payload on drivers side door jam. Don't go by the maker's payload spec as those are usually base, optionless models. My maker speced payload was 1700 lbs but my optioned Crew Cab 4WD F150 comes in at 1582 lbs. You also must subtract the weight of truck accessories from your payload. I have a 20 lbs bedrug and a 15 lbs tonneau cover so my actual payload is now 1547 lbs.

So subtract your people and gear weight from that 1547 lbs, which was 700 lbs, and you now have 857 lbs for your trailer hitch weight.

On an "AVERAGE" the hitch weight is 13% of a "LOADED" trailer and on an "AVERAGE", 80% of that hitch weight goes to the vehicles axles when using a "CORRECTLY" adjusted Weight Distribution Hitch.

So take that 857 and divide it by 80% to get 1071 lbs. Now that 1071 lbs. is obviously over my hitch weight of 1050 lbs but for the sake of stating the math, lets just go with that. Now that 1071 lbs would be 13% of the total trailer weight "LOADED". So you take that 1071 lbs and divide by 13% to give your actual "LOADED" trailer weight. That would be 8238 lbs.

Now most makers spec the unloaded trailer weight on their website or brochure. That's without options, water, propane, or a battery.

Normally people load a trailer 1000 lbs with food, camping gear, water, propane, battery over the additional option weight the trailer comes with. That option weight can be around 200 to 300 lbs. So lets say 1300 lbs in addition to the maker spec weight.

So take that 8238 lbs and subtract 1300 lbs from that. That new weight is 6938 lbs and that would be the weight of the maker website/brochure dry weight that you could pull with a truck that a higher than 1547 lbs "USABLE" payload (or more), a hitch weight rating of 1071 lbs (or more), and a hitch weight percentage of 13%, and a weight distribution of 80%. You may not be able to even pull that weight if hitch weights, hitch distributed weight, and loaded weight are even higher.

Should mention, my trailer came with about 200 lbs of options. The trailer itself also has a payload sticker on it and/or a weight sticker. Mine came with both and my brochure weight was ~4850 lbs and my actual weight was 5050 lbs on my 26BH. If the trailer has no weight sticker, you can find it out by using the payload sticker and adding back the propane and water weight as we want the trailer weight only, with options. Then subtract that new payload from the trailer's GVWR. That'll give you the weight. As an example, using my truck. My payload sticker is 1582 lbs and my GVWR is 7350 lbs. My truck weighs 5768 lbs.

Now my truck has the 5.0L. For some reason, the V6 Turbo Ecoboost motor option drops the payload down. The 5.0L has a 7350 lbs GVWR and the Ecoboost has a 7200 lbs GVWR, both Crew Cab 4WD trucks with 145" wheelbase (5.5' bed).

Also a shorter wheelbase SUV will allow more sway with certain floorplans and longer trailers, so a really good antisway hitch will be needed.

Good luck on the hunt.

BTW, my 'actual' cost for my 2012 F150 and my 2012 Jayco Jay Flight was $46,600. Not to many decent USED motorhomes can be had for that plus I have a daily driver where you'd have to BUY ANOTHER vehicle.

[PopsRacer]

bazaarsoft wrote:

krobbe wrote:
The Nissan Armada payload is 1400lb max. Your loaded up TT will be about 8000lbs with a tongue wt of about 1040lbs. Passengers and cargo at about 500lbs. With 1540lbs on it, unfortunately your truck will be over loaded.

Unloaded weight of the trailer is 6325lbs, making loaded weight closer to 7600lbs. Tongue weight is much more like 950lbs. Going with your estimate of 500lbs cargo weight that makes 1450lbs which happens to be the payload for the 2011 Armada. Sure, it's close, so I guess time will tell if it's a problem or not.

I would hit the scales for $10 so you're not having to guess your numbers, they're often off a bit.

http://catscale.com/cat-scale-locator?postalcode=&city=austin&state=TX&miles=9&cmdSearch=Search

[krobbe]

bazaarsoft wrote:

krobbe wrote:
The Nissan Armada payload is 1400lb max. Your loaded up TT will be about 8000lbs with a tongue wt of about 1040lbs. Passengers and cargo at about 500lbs. With 1540lbs on it, unfortunately your truck will be over loaded.

Unloaded weight of the trailer is 6325lbs, making loaded weight closer to 7600lbs. Tongue weight is much more like 950lbs. Going with your estimate of 500lbs cargo weight that makes 1450lbs which happens to be the payload for the 2011 Armada. Sure, it's close, so I guess time will tell if it's a problem or not.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Being conservative, I use the 80% rule when matching a TV with a TT. That gives me 20% or more of payload to play with for those times when extra passengers or cargo is thrown in. That's why I went with a 3/4 ton. The most limiting factor for non HD 1/2 ton TV's is payload. Be safe:)

[bazaarsoft]

krobbe wrote:
The Nissan Armada payload is 1400lb max. Your loaded up TT will be about 8000lbs with a tongue wt of about 1040lbs. Passengers and cargo at about 500lbs. With 1540lbs on it, unfortunately your truck will be over loaded.

Unloaded weight of the trailer is 6325lbs, making loaded weight closer to 7600lbs. Tongue weight is much more like 950lbs. Going with your estimate of 500lbs cargo weight that makes 1450lbs which happens to be the payload for the 2011 Armada. Sure, it's close, so I guess time will tell if it's a problem or not.

[PAThwacker]

01 to 06 k2500 subs can be had for $10k to $14k and have 2000lb plus payload ratings, and 8600lb gvw. Tow ratings 7600lb to 12000lb dependent on rear/engine configurations. I just saw a base k2500 go through auction and it never had a hitch. In fact two 6.0 Liter went through the first base had 80k and went for 12k, the second had 100k but was fully loaded: leather, roof, captains, dvd, autoride, and hd tow. The second one was bid on like crazy and shot up to $14k wholesale.

[krobbe]

bazaarsoft wrote:
We just went through a very similar experience, though we were specifically not looking for a bunk house floor plan (lots of those available around central TX). In any case, we found a used 2011 Nissan Armada (~$30k) with low miles (19K), over half the factory warranty still in effect, in great shape and a towing capacity of 9100lbs - plenty of head room for pretty much any TT we could afford.

I work at home so I only will drive the Armada occasionally so gas mileage was less important than capacity and comfort over long drives. And boy is it a really nice to ride in. Because the car was as new and had low mileage, i was able to get new car interest rates on it.

That left us with more $ to spend on the TT - we really wanted something that felt like "home" while we were on the road. We found a 2012 Dutchman that the dealer wanted badly to get off the lot to make room for the 2013's. So we got a big price break (right time to find those kinds of deals). It weighs 6500 dry so it's well under our towing capacity. Here's a tip: currently, Bank of America (of all places) is offering pretty good interest rates on RVs - beat all the credit unions I tried by almost half.

All in all, we actually spent less than our budget and couldn't be happier with the rig. Well, with only a single trip so far we don't have a lot of experience but so far we're quite satisfied.

The Nissan Armada payload is 1400lb max. Your loaded up TT will be about 8000lbs with a tongue wt of about 1040lbs. Passengers and cargo at about 500lbs. With 1540lbs on it, unfortunately your truck will be over loaded.

[bazaarsoft]

We just went through a very similar experience, though we were specifically not looking for a bunk house floor plan (lots of those available around central TX). In any case, we found a used 2011 Nissan Armada (~$30k) with low miles (19K), over half the factory warranty still in effect, in great shape and a towing capacity of 9100lbs - plenty of head room for pretty much any TT we could afford.

I work at home so I only will drive the Armada occasionally so gas mileage was less important than capacity and comfort over long drives. And boy is it a really nice to ride in. Because the car was as new and had low mileage, i was able to get new car interest rates on it.

That left us with more $ to spend on the TT - we really wanted something that felt like "home" while we were on the road. We found a 2012 Dutchman that the dealer wanted badly to get off the lot to make room for the 2013's. So we got a big price break (right time to find those kinds of deals). It weighs 6500 dry so it's well under our towing capacity. Here's a tip: currently, Bank of America (of all places) is offering pretty good interest rates on RVs - beat all the credit unions I tried by almost half.

All in all, we actually spent less than our budget and couldn't be happier with the rig. Well, with only a single trip so far we don't have a lot of experience but so far we're quite satisfied.

[chaoticneutral]

PAThwacker wrote:
Bears bull, they rip open cars for a cooler. Nothing will prevent a bear from getting into any type of camper except following specified rules.

Yes, I know this, but they'll go for the tents first. When we've been up in Tahoe there always seems to be some guy up late to scare off the bears if they do come through camp. The worst that happened was a bear got into the trash last year because some idiot left food in the bag. I just need that false sense of security.

[Bruce_H_]

We're SUV people, but I did check out the Ford F150 XLT SuperCrew cab with EcoBoost and tow package (not max tow or HD) at a local dealer. With just a bit of haggling, the price came down from 42K to 34K. Didn't pull the trigger on it, but I came away with the insight that you get a lot more towing bang for the buck with a pickup than with a SUV.

Bruce

[PAThwacker]

bwhahaha, I don't like the lance layout. Kids bunks are 3 across the rear and in full view of the tt body. Our HTT has perpendicular bunks and has half of each bunk hid behind the side bath. The tent goes to the street side, and the other out front. Bears bull, they rip open cars for a cooler. Nothing will prevent a bear from getting into any type of camper except following specified rules.

[FoCoNoCo]

..........patiently awaiting the inevitable Lance 2185 plug........