Illegal / dangerous to pull 11,000 trailer rated 10,000 lbs?

[jerryrigged]

I had another thread recently talking about how to set this up.

Curt/DrawTite both sell a hitch that can be added to a Ford Econoline 1-ton van (e350), but someone told me it's not only illegal but dangeroous to pull something higher than manufacture specs.

http://www.curtmfg.com/HitchLookup/find?year=2011&make=Ford&model=E-Series

or

http://www.reese-hitches.com/products/,41945

Is it illegal / dangerous to use this hitch pull 11,000 trailer rated 10,000 lbs?

[Campfire_Time]

dodge guy wrote:


What I`m saying is I would do it because there is nothing illegal or unsafe about it!

Your either going to do this or your not! you can be sued in an accident even if you were towing a pop up with the van! fact is an accident while towing is very remote. you are putting way too much thought into this.

What you're saying is just throw all caution to the wind. What you are saying is, go ahead, give some lawyer a really good case if there is an accident. Sure it's remote. So is getting killed withing 7 miles of your house. But it happens more than you realize. I do agree that it's safe, but just because something is legal doesn't make it right.

Way too much thought? The man is being sensible. Doesn't seem to be enough of that these days.

That said, if your advice is sound, would you be willing to put up the money for him should he find himself in that "remote" situation?

[dodge_guy]

jerryrigged wrote:

dodge guy wrote:
Again, nothing against the law to tow an 11k lb trailer with a proper rated hitch. And again, the 10k rating is based on a 10k hitch.
An excursion originally was rated at 10k lbs tow rating. In 02 the rating went to 12,500lbs, the only difference was the attaching hardware. So with the proper hardware on an early Excursion you could tow 12k lbs.
same goes for my Excursion. It was rated from the factory at 17k lbs GCWR with 3.73 gears. With 4.30 gears it went up to 20k lbs GCWR. So yes you can tow a heavier trailer if you do it safely.

You can tow a heavier trailer and stay within the factory weight specs.

That's my concern. The E350 was never rated at 12000 lbs in any year. The max ever was 10000, and that is with the best towing gear.

Your situation seems different. Seems the 4.30 gears was a factory option, although not installed on your vehicle (and you upgraded)

What I`m saying is I would do it because there is nothing illegal or unsafe about it!

Your either going to do this or your not! you can be sued in an accident even if you were towing a pop up with the van! fact is an accident while towing is very remote. you are putting way too much thought into this.

[rbpru]

You seem to be asking a question you do not understand the answer to.

You have a vehicle which has a max cargo, towing capacity and max axle rating, usually posted on a sticker on the car frame.

You have a hitch which has a finite rating for use with and without a WD hitch.

Your TT has a listed dry weight and approximate tongue weight.

You live in a litigious world where anyone can sue anyone for anything.

How close or far from the listed ratings you are is far more important to the wear and tear on your vehicle then if you will be pulled over.

You can bet that in an accident you will be sued. That is life.

[jerryrigged]

dodge guy wrote:
Again, nothing against the law to tow an 11k lb trailer with a proper rated hitch. And again, the 10k rating is based on a 10k hitch.
An excursion originally was rated at 10k lbs tow rating. In 02 the rating went to 12,500lbs, the only difference was the attaching hardware. So with the proper hardware on an early Excursion you could tow 12k lbs.
same goes for my Excursion. It was rated from the factory at 17k lbs GCWR with 3.73 gears. With 4.30 gears it went up to 20k lbs GCWR. So yes you can tow a heavier trailer if you do it safely.

You can tow a heavier trailer and stay within the factory weight specs.

That's my concern. The E350 was never rated at 12000 lbs in any year. The max ever was 10000, and that is with the best towing gear.

Your situation seems different. Seems the 4.30 gears was a factory option, although not installed on your vehicle (and you upgraded)

[dodge_guy]

Again, nothing against the law to tow an 11k lb trailer with a proper rated hitch. And again, the 10k rating is based on a 10k hitch.
An excursion originally was rated at 10k lbs tow rating. In 02 the rating went to 12,500lbs, the only difference was the attaching hardware. So with the proper hardware on an early Excursion you could tow 12k lbs.
same goes for my Excursion. It was rated from the factory at 17k lbs GCWR with 3.73 gears. With 4.30 gears it went up to 20k lbs GCWR. So yes you can tow a heavier trailer if you do it safely.

You can tow a heavier trailer and stay within the factory weight specs.

[bid_time]

Campfire Time wrote:

bid_time wrote:
It might be a remotely believable yarn if you could only point to one legitimate case of "Overweight Negligence = Liability"

Since most civil suits are settled out of court, might be hard to find one. Just because you can't easily find one doesn't mean they don't exist.

What is believable is that we (US) live in a very litigious society. People sue for anything and everything. A friend had a neighbor who lived off of frivolous lawsuits. So honestly, if think you would never be the defendant in a civil liability suit for towing over your limits, you are spinning your own yarn.

Ok - show me where someone even filed such a suit.

[jerryrigged]

Jayco-noslide wrote:
I wouldn't knowingly go beyond the recommended capacities with any kind of RV equipment. If for no other reason, think of the liability if there is an accident.

Two attorneys just told me the same. Well, time to sell the v-10, 12 passenger van.

[Jayco-noslide]

I wouldn't knowingly go beyond the recommended capacities with any kind of RV equipment. If for no other reason, think of the liability if there is an accident.

[jerryrigged]

Funny how Curt tech support said it might be illegal or dangerous. I called 2 insurance companies as well who werent sure either, but thought it was fine.

[dodge_guy]

No. Not illegal. The tow rating is a performance and hitch rating for warranty purposes. Beyond that if you install the larger hitch you'll be fine for towing the larger trailer!

[jerryrigged]

westend wrote:
I've got a feeling that this is one of those, "I know it's wrong but I'll ask anyway" threads.

No, I really have no clue.


Following answers are inline:

bid_time wrote:

What is rated at 11,000 lbs? GVWR trailer (max loaded weight)
what is rated at 10,000 lbs? Stock pulling weight of van.
What is the tow rating of the E350? (same as prev. 10k lbs)
What is the GVWR of the trailer you want to haul? (see above)
Do you know what the tongue weight on the trailer is? 870 dry.
What does the payload sticker on the E350 say? I've done the math on all this, incl. GCWR, and not really the question, but if you think its essential, I can go look it up again.
(the payload sticker is on the door and will say something to the effect of "the maximum load of all passengers and payload shall not exceed x,xxx lbs.)

[jerryrigged]

phillyg wrote:
Are you saying the hitch is rated higher than the van's max tow rating? If so, I don't see how that makes it "illegal" to sell, unless you're willing to pull 11,000lbs with a vehicle only rated for 10,000lbs, but that's on you, not the hitch seller.

1. Right, I am asking about me, not the hitch seller.

2. I dont want to get a bunch of tickets from highway patrol, but DOT / port of entry said that these rules only apply to commercial vehicles, not personal.

3. I don't want a dangerous setup either, let alone something that is uninsurable in case of accident.

A few here mentioned that the 10k limit on the van was a limit on the factory hitch, NOT the limit of what it's safely rated for.

[Campfire_Time]

bid_time wrote:
It might be a remotely believable yarn if you could only point to one legitimate case of "Overweight Negligence = Liability"

Since most civil suits are settled out of court, might be hard to find one. Just because you can't easily find one doesn't mean they don't exist.

What is believable is that we (US) live in a very litigious society. People sue for anything and everything. A friend had a neighbor who lived off of frivolous lawsuits. So honestly, if think you would never be the defendant in a civil liability suit for towing over your limits, you are spinning your own yarn.

[westend]

I've got a feeling that this is one of those, "I know it's wrong but I'll ask anyway" threads.

[bid_time]

It might be a remotely believable yarn if you could only point to one legitimate case of "Overweight Negligence = Liability"