Which battery for small travel trailer

[Scottishman]

My wife and I have a FR Palonini 132FD. 16' LOA.

We use it for two three-week trips every fall and spring - and occasional camping in between.

We tow it with a Toyota Tacoma, and have a 100W solar panel on the roof, plus a spare 80W 'briefcase' solar panel

I always have problems keeping batteries charged and kill them. So this time I purchased a AmpereTime solid-state 200Ah Nickel/cadmium battery.
It's an awesome battery that is good for 2000cycles and will last many years - but the issue is that it needs 14.6V for charging and neither the tow vehicle, the camper converter on shore power (13.63V) or my solar panels will deliver that kind of oomph.

So I'm faced with spending a bundle on any of the solutions and that just seems like overkill. So I think I should return it and start over again - regrettably.

My question is - what's the best deep-cycle battery for this small camper, considering the type of use. We are VERY careful with power usage - just the fridge control panel; heater fan when in use; and occasional LED lights. Thank you

[Grit_dog]

^Yes I agree.
And the wfco converters claim to be 3 stage and then include some language about how you may not “see” 14.xx volts at the battery….
Goes against whatnliitle I remember from electrical engineering courses, lol.
That said, I’m not saavy with solar like many of the gentlemen here but you should be able to produce those higher voltages out of your solar (at a much smaller amperage of course compared to a large charger.)
Good you’re keeping the battery. I think you’ll enjoy the performance of it once you can keep it charged fully.
Best of luck!

[Scottishman]

Yes that's good to know and the general suckiness of RV converters is also mentioned by the author of The 12volt Side of Life. (Why does the RV industry continue to put these converters in campers?) Anyway - I got myself a decent smart charger as recommended by you and others - so when we do have power I'll hook the charger and battery to that separately from the converter.

[Grit_dog]

Scottishman wrote:
I just checked - the converter is manufactured by WFCO. Model No. WF-8735-P. The label says that the output rating (includes charging and load) = 13.6V - which concurs with my own test as above. I suppose, therefore, that this should be enough to charge the battery? It says nothing about two-stage.

Yes the converter is marginal for charging. Even Old fashioned lead acid batteries.
I didn’t believe it after a bunch of years with a better converter that charged batteries quickly and fully.
But our new camper has a wfco same as yours but 55amp. And it s Ucks at charging.

[Huntindog]

toedtoes wrote:
If you don't change your converter to a smart one, I would get a good quality trickle charger and make sure you have a battery cutoff switch. That way when it's home, you can isolate the battery and keep it on trickle charge.It is a LiFePO4 battery.That is considered by many to be the best type available A trickle charger is not needed or recommended

Did your prior batteries last the 3-day weekends on one charge? If not, how far short did they fall on your highest and lowest energy output trips?

I would aim for a battery(s) that can handle at least your lowest output weekend without recharging - so no furnace use. If you can get more, great, but set that as your minimum if at all possible.

I personally like the AGMs - it's just one thing I don't have to think about. I had good luck with the Optima Blue Top battery. It lasted in my clipper until the thieves stole it and f'd up everything. The battery was about 7 years old.

This time, because I needed new batteries in the trailer also, I went with the vtechs. Less expensive and same size. We will see how they last in comparison.

Lifeline agm are the most recommended AGM by folks here.

Flooded batteries are cheaper, but you need to remember to check them regularly. Sam's club and Costco batteries seem to get the most reference here.

A lifeline GPL-31T battery will run you about $400. That gives you 105ah. With the other $400, you could get a good trickle charger and pump up your solar a bit.

[Scottishman]

I just checked - the converter is manufactured by WFCO. Model No. WF-8735-P. The label says that the output rating (includes charging and load) = 13.6V - which concurs with my own test as above. I suppose, therefore, that this should be enough to charge the battery? It says nothing about two-stage.

[Scottishman]

Skibane,

Thanks for that. Well, the only way I've found to rest the voltage delivered by the converter is to put a voltage meter across the two terminals that go to the battery from the converter (having disconnected the battery). It reads 13.62V. So I presume that's the charging voltage (?)
I also don't have enough faith in this (2016) converter to believe that it has two-stage charging as you suggest. I'll find the converter specs and look it up.
Thank you

[Skibane]

1. Are you sure that your DC power converter doesn't deliver 14+ volts while it's recharging the battery?

Nowadays, most converters are at least "2 Stage", with a higher initial charge voltage until the converter determines that the battery is charged.

2. Most solar panels will deliver well in excess of 17 volts. All you need is a solar panel charge controller that can be adjusted to the higher charging voltage your Lithium battery requires.

[Scottishman]

Thank you so much - all very helpful. As my Mom would say - if it was easy everybody would be doing it.

[wny_pat1]

Oh, should have mentioned that you need to run a 6 gauge service connection from your pick-up's battery to the rear of your pickup bed. Here you will need a Anderson connecter to be able to disconnect from your trailer's cconnector going to the charger. Any place that specializes in Pickup trucks should be able to install one for you. Stay far away RV dealers for this installation! Places that do off road installations would be far better.

[wny_pat1]

No, they are not waterproof!!! They are water resistant to a point. They have to be mounted vertically on a non-flammable surface, with the power terminals facing downwards. I'm mounting mine in a "ventlated" box. Something to keep direct water spray from saturated the unit. They are rated to IP43 protection When installed with the screw terminals oriented downwards. IP43 is Protected from water spray less than 60 degrees from vertical. I am installing mine in a waterproof junction box rated at IP65 - Protected from low pressure water jets from any direction. Found it at www.amazon.com/dp/B07PDV2F2N?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details.

I have a Scamp 19, similar to a small fifth wheel. I am mounting mine on the front outside fiberglass wall. I would like to mount mine upside down on the loft over the pick up bed and am awaiting comments from their dealer. Your charger should be mounted as close to the trailer batteries as possible.

[Scottishman]

Scottishman wrote:
My wife and I have a FR Palonini 132FD. 16' LOA.

We use it for two three-week trips every fall and spring - and occasional camping in between.

We tow it with a Toyota Tacoma, and have a 100W solar panel on the roof, plus a spare 80W 'briefcase' solar panel

I always have problems keeping batteries charged and kill them. So this time I purchased a AmpereTime solid-state 200Ah Nickel/cadmium battery.
It's an awesome battery that is good for 2000cycles and will last many years - but the issue is that it needs 14.6V for charging and neither the tow vehicle, the camper converter on shore power (13.63V) or my solar panels will deliver that kind of oomph.

So I'm faced with spending a bundle on any of the solutions and that just seems like overkill. So I think I should return it and start over again - regrettably.

My question is - what's the best deep-cycle battery for this small camper, considering the type of use. We are VERY careful with power usage - just the fridge control panel; heater fan when in use; and occasional LED lights. Thank you

d) Here's a question about the Victron DC to DC charger installation. All I can find on You Tube for installation is concerning motorhomes. I have Tacoma towing a TT - so the wiring has to be very different because of the Vehicle-to-trailer coupling. Who has suggestions about how to wire up this gizmo - like running the wires through the truck.
e) Continuance of above...there is ZERO room in this camper - even for that charger and I don't want to drill holes in the camper shell or floor to bring it inside anyway. Can I mount it to the tow frame / chassis of the TT? Is it waterproof? It would be ideal for ease of access.

[Scottishman]

OMG that's really great and detailed advice - and a lot to think about - At some point I have to take what I can from the incoming advice and make my choice.

So far:

a) From all of the above information is leading to installing a Victron Dc to DC charger for charging while towing.
b) Upgrade my solar panels to 400W and upgrade the controller to suit.
c) Considering KEEPING the Ampere time 200Ah (I now see it's good value at $760 compared
to Dakota, for example.) My only unanswered questions about those is...problems in freezing weather. I live in Jackson, Wyoming and travel to 8,000 - 9,000 every fall and spring when temps can get seriously below freezing. (I already took all the water systems out and it has no toilet.) If the answers to that persuade me to return it. Then I'll look at your specific battery recommendations above.
d) Here's a question about the Victron DC to DC charger installation. (I'll also copy this to those in the forum who suggested it.) All I can find on You Tube for installation is concerning motorhomes. I have Tacoma towing a TT - so the wiring has to be very different because of the Vehicle-to-trailer coupling. Who has suggestions about how to wire up this gizmo - like running the wires through the truck.
e) Continuance of above...there is ZERO room in this camper - even for that charger and I don't want to drill holes in the camper shell or floor to bring it inside anyway. Can I mount it to the tow frame / chassis of the TT? Is it waterproof? It would be ideal for ease of access.

Overall, the expenditure is going to be considerable relative to the value of the camper ($8,000)- but it's all easy enough to move over to the next slightly larger camper from when we're not quite so adventurous - (I'm 65)

I think that's all for now - what am I forgetting?

[toedtoes]

If you don't change your converter to a smart one, I would get a good quality trickle charger and make sure you have a battery cutoff switch. That way when it's home, you can isolate the battery and keep it on trickle charge.

Did your prior batteries last the 3-day weekends on one charge? If not, how far short did they fall on your highest and lowest energy output trips?

I would aim for a battery(s) that can handle at least your lowest output weekend without recharging - so no furnace use. If you can get more, great, but set that as your minimum if at all possible.

I personally like the AGMs - it's just one thing I don't have to think about. I had good luck with the Optima Blue Top battery. It lasted in my clipper until the thieves stole it and f'd up everything. The battery was about 7 years old.

This time, because I needed new batteries in the trailer also, I went with the vtechs. Less expensive and same size. We will see how they last in comparison.

Lifeline agm are the most recommended AGM by folks here.

Flooded batteries are cheaper, but you need to remember to check them regularly. Sam's club and Costco batteries seem to get the most reference here.

A lifeline GPL-31T battery will run you about $400. That gives you 105ah. With the other $400, you could get a good trickle charger and pump up your solar a bit.

[Scottishman]

Thank you for such swift and helpful responses: Nammedevac70; Deltabravo; theoldwizard1; Toedtoes - I will address each answer in order but first - duh - why did I write Nickel-Cadmium when the battery is Lithium Ion.

Overall, our camper is worth about $8K. This battery cost $800, and to upgrade charging from tow vehicle, A/C hookup, or solar, or generator - is all significantly more - which I hadn't planned for. We never hook up while camping even for three weeks.

1) Nammedevac70: Thanks - I'm definitely thinking 'less is more'. We never hook-up and I'm not a generator user and I don't have room for one plus fuel.. We live in a sunny part of the country and I'd rather upgrade my solar. It's perfectly reasonable to go into 'preserve' mode and use power very sparingly. I'll consider your battery suggestion - our closest Sam is over two hours away...

2) Deltabravo - Thanks. I'm not limited by battery size box as I've changed that before to accommodate two 6V golf-cart batteries before. (Extremely heavy esp. for a tiny camper) Your DC to DC is an excellent suggestion - which I'll probably follow-up on. As for changing converter to inverter etc. - that requires cabinetry removal and wiring know-how - a project I'd probably mess-up - so not for now.

3) Oldwizard1 - Sorry - that was a mistake - please see note above. A new converter would require cabinetry removal and wiring expertise - which I don't have - so better to stay away from that. I do have a solar controller on each panel which I use.

4) Mrandyj - I have different sized battery boxes or can change to suit the right battery(s) Sorry - I made a mistake about the battery - see notes above. You're right it's LiFe If I can get away with one (really good) battery - I'll try that first and go into 'preserve' mode with electrics. Right-on with your suggestions about DC to DC and variable output controller - I'll do those things right away.

5) Toedtoes. Thank you - very helpful. Your suggestions are backed-up by above advice from others and please see my responses which address yours too