Pemex Diesel Fuel Update

[Ed_White]

There is some important new information to share regarding the availability of ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) in Mexico.

Over the past month (February 2017) I kept pestering a half dozen public relations people at Pemex until one of them finally replied. He sent me 176 pages of information, listing every Pemex station, by number, that carries ULSD. He also sent me a Spanish copy of the latest legislation on this subject.

The Mexican Government has at last placed a date on 100% conversion to ULSD. By December 31, 2018 every Pemex station in Mexico must be carrying ULSD.

There are other things happening too. It looks like 3 of Mexico's refineries are now producing ULSD, and a fourth should be on line later this year.

In addition, Pemex has been required, since 2016, to ensure that ULSD is available at Pemex stations along all of the major transportation routes used by truckers. This means, for example, that the Pemex stations on the main highway passing through places like Mazatlan, or Puerto Vallarta, or Guadalajara must carry ULSD, while the Pemex stations in downtown areas, or away from the highway, may still be carrying Mexican LSD.

This is a very exciting development, because it means that owners of late model diesels can now be fairly confident that ULSD is being carried at all Pemex stations along major routes.

Also, I am happy to look up specific Pemex station numbers on my Master List to see whether a particular station is designated as an ULSD station. (I would release the list publicly but I am not sure that I am authorised to release it publicly).

As always, I am happy to act as a resource for owners of late model diesels. Contact me by email at whitetmp@aol.com

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The country is outpacing the production of domestic diesel. Extremely Low Sulfur Diesel Diesel is being purchased from Japan

Sakai Refinery Cosmo Oil

Toyama Refinery Nihonkai Oil/(Nippon Oil Corporation) NOC

But it helps to keep in mind common sense logistics. Mexico City gets first dibs on major production.

Tank farm tanks are labelled. See if you can spot a tank labelled DIESEL UBA

Distributors are under contract to PEMEX and have closely monitored and protected sales territories. When a distributor fills at an Almacen de Pemex (tank farm) every station in his area will get the same fuel. The Almacen de Pemex at El Sauzal B.C. for instance serves every gasolinera, in Baja California. The Almacen at Mexicali is connected via pipeline.

So looking at a distribution map, and seeing splotchy coverage of UBA in a distributor's area, does not make sense. At all. Every gasolinera will get the same available fuel from the Almacen.

Mexico City consumes a titanic quantity of diesel. A large percentage of refinacion capacity of Villahermosa, and Queretaro is piped to DF. Same for ship ports, but here's the catch.......Atlantic ports are not viable for fuel originating in Japan. El Sauzal is a tiny Almacen. Salina Cruz, Manzanillo, Lazaro Cardenas and Puerto Vallarta are magnitudes greater in volume.

Ed White has an email pipeline map showing distribution via pipeline. I suggest reading it to gain a better understanding of the distribution web throughout the country.

Pemex is trying to quash dilution of grades of "comistible". But as long as servivios particulares are used to distribute fuel there exists a real risk that fuel will not be what it is claimed to be. The only surety for UBA will be to eliminate the availability of regular low sulfur diesel.

When the price of UBA Premium and Magna was but a few cents (US) difference, there was less of a chance of deliberate dilution. But today the price spread makes it a lucrative practice. A "pipa", truck and trailer tanker can transport twelve thousand gallons of fuel. At fifteen cents per gallon differential you can do your own math. All fuel dump-ages are PRE-PAID via electronic funds transfer from gasolinera to distributor then from distributor to PEMEX. Bank to bank.

[Ed_White]

Tequila, I'm not comfortable yet with the idea that the list I provided to you should be published. I received the list from a Pemex employee and I don't have permission to make the list public. By all means respond to questions about individual stations, and share knowledge you may extract related to a specific route, but please do not publish the list as provided.

[Tequila]

BTW I have the list and I will be leading a caravan through the interior, Yucatan, Chiapas, west coast in fall. I will be identifying the locations of many stations on the list.

I will start an ongoing thread here, listign whewre they are starting with the ones i have already identified from about los Mochis north. I will ask the admin to pin it.

If anyone is still in Mexico and headed out along any route other than 15D north of Los Mochis, if you note the station numbers, the highway segment they are on and PM them to me, I will also x check those on the list.

[Ed_White]

In the past few days I was able to view a laboratory sample test of diesel imported to the Tepeixtles terminal near Manzanillo. It was ULSD with sulfur quite a bit LESS than USA 15 ppm. I was told the diesel came from Asia by tanker and is distributed up to Puerto Vallarta, which probably explains the lack of problems for Snowbirds in that area this past winter.

And yes, I have PERSONALLY drawn several samples of fuel from Northern Baja stations and had them tested at a lab in the USA over the past 18 months. All were ULSD except for one station where it was apparent that there was a mix of ULSD and LSD in the tank. A second test at that station a month later found that sulfur levels had dropped to 18.6 ppm, which suggests that most of the LSD had been diluted out by subsequent deliveries.

As for color, there can be color differences between the stock from different refineries but it is NOT possible to determine the sulfur ppm from the color. The only reliable method is a lab test.

I continue to be somewhat trusting of the Pemex list of ULSD stations because my own testing, along with other information being leaked to me, and the lack of sulfur-in-fuel problems being reported in some areas this winter, suggests that the list is accurate.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The only way to resolve this is to draw a bomb (a bomb is a petroleum fuel sample) and have it analyzed. The USA is exporting more and more diesel and gasoline to Mexico and what was low percentage just a few years ago is now high percentage. Have ANY of you drawn ULSD in the USA into a clear vessel, then drawn Mexican refined diesel and compared the color of the two?

WHERE? IS? THE? UBA? in this list from Petroleos Mexicanos


Pemex is lock stock and barrel controlled by gobernacion. And politics enters the picture in wholesale fashion. If THAT isn't bad enough, the privately owned barge transport service towing barges from Topolobampo to Pichilingue started diluting Premium with Magna (again) once the price difference of the two fuels became great enough to turn a profit.

[briansue]

I worte down all the numbers from mazatlan north after you gave me the list.

You should be able to find all the Pemex numbers on the Pemex Guide website unless they are very new stations. I can't verify but I think they list pretty much all of them. I am not sure if it is possible to search the website to find Pemex locations by number.

http://guiapemex.pemex.com/SitePages/home.aspx#!

[Tequila]

Just noticed you posted this Ed. The list you supplied me shows 3200 stations with ULSD all over mexico. I worte down all the numbers from mazatlan north after you gave me the list. I have not had tiem to x-check them. Give me the word and i can make the list available for download here.

I am leading a caravan through the interior & yucatan in Fall. I intend on noting loactions on that trip.

[Ed_White]

bighatnohorse, if you take your 15 Ford in to Mexico and start using Mexican diesel there is a very high probability that you will see NO symptoms whatsoever. The vast majority of late model Fords experience nothing more than the Check Engine light on for periods of time between regenerations.

For those who have concerns, and don't like to see that Check Engine light blazing, all that needs to be done is to purchase a tuner such as the Edge CTS2, which can force a regeneration on a late model Ford diesel. Simply run a regeneration cycle on a regular basis and the emissions system will be kept free of sulfur deposits.

Please note that I do NOT receive commissions from Edge and I have no connection with that company.

[briansue]

want to only make ONE kind of engine for the entire world and that is what they are working on.

I am certainly no expert on any of this. Back when I drove I had a Cummins 855 cu in 290 hp. The 855 was a basic block and piston that could be configured a bunch of different ways for different horsepower or whatever. I evolved from the mid 70s to maybe 2000? I think they got up to 500 hp potential but you could probably still get the lower HP versions. Then they came up with the ISX I think - which I think is around 900 cu in but now they talk liters so I am not sure.

All of these engines can be changed by adding different components. I use to term "bolt on" because to me that is what is done to a basic block to change what it is and what it does. To me being the same cubic inch makes it the same basic engine.

So to increase HP they used to do things like adding a turbo and changing the camshaft - or injectors and/or fuel pump. Then they got into emissions and EPA requirements in the US. And therein perhaps lies the problem for Cummins and others and why one engine does not fit all when it comes to changing the same basic cubic inch engine into something else. US EPA requires stuff that other countries do not. That means different equipment for US engines - as Ed said above - DPF - DEF - ECM - or is it ECU? And the list goes on. I think these ISX based cu in / liter engines can be spec'd from around 300 hp up to 600 hp depending on what the buyer wants. Back in the 855 days they started at 250 hp I think with no turbo - add the turbo and go to 290 hp - change the cam - change the turbo - turn up the fuel pump - add a Jake Brake - I have no idea of all the possible specs any more.

We all want Mexico to get USLD. No question. But they seem to be struggling with it and have been for all the years this discussion has been going on on this forum. But there is no reason at this time for Mexico to have ULSD spec'd trucks and I think as the tech experts explained previously in this thread it would sort of defeat the purpose to put stuff designed to operate using 15 ppm fuel in a vehicle when you can only get 500 ppm fuel - or whatever fuel other than 15 ppm happens to be available. Though my term is technically incorrect all of that stuff is still "bolt on" to me as it is something that is added to the basic engine to get the desired result from that engine. To complicated for me.

All over the world they use diesel engines and all the manufacturers compete to sell what they make everywhere in the world they can. So each country may have different rules or requirements pertaining to emissions and they may have different fuels available. They do not spec ULSD equipment if they do not have ULSD fuel to feed the beast. It doesn't work that way. But they still use the same engine block and then equip it for what is needed where that engine will be used. In other words - if Cummins wants the "entire world" to use the exact same engine they are going to have to get the entire world on the same exact page - I doubt I will live long enough.

And to clarify - we have an ISL - but most heavy trucks and a few high end motorhomes use the ISX - in other words I am aware that Cummins builds many engines other than the ISX but the ISX is the one most long haul heavy haulers will be using. And yes I do know that there are lots of other engines besides Cummins but I think all the same basic thoughts apply to all. I have driven trucks with Cats and the old blown Detroits - but the truck I owned and our motorhome are Cummins powered so if I know anything about this it would have to do with Cummins. I think these days International and Volvo have their own engines - Mack has always had their own engines - I think PACCAR is building engines now too. They all spec to the buyer.

I am not trying to argue or split hairs here - or whatever - just trying to clarify some terminology where the words I use may not be correct.

[fulltimedaniel]

briansue wrote:

Yes for sure many of the class 8 trucks are ASSEMBLED in Mexico of parts made in several countries including the Usa. Your Ford, Chevy and Dodge pickups are also assembled in border towns in Mexico. This does not qualify them as being "Made" in Mexico. They are still American Made Trucks.

I do not mean to nitpick or argue. The areas where US branded vehicles are built in Mexico are not "border towns" other than maybe Mexicali where Kenworths have been built for a very long time for the Mexican market. 23,000 trucks per year from the KenMex Mexicali plant built for and sold in Mexico. Most of the other plants are much further down in Mexico.

Can Moisheh or Briansue claim that level of experience?

I owned my own truck and drove both local and 48 states for almost 10 years back in the late 70s through most of the 80s. Different times. But I still like trucks and pay some attention to what is going on. We have been on the road in our motorhome for 11 years now with almost every winter in Mexico so we pay some attention there too.

The vast majority of the Class 8 trucks being manufactured for the NORTH AMERICAN MARKET are ULSD trucks. Whether they go to Mexico or not.

You may be correct but I tend to doubt it since it probably is not a good idea to run a vehicle equipped for ULSD on LSD fuel for very long. Many trucks run upwards of 150,000 miles per year and burning the fuel found in most of Mexico could cause some problems. The basic engines are the same but the equipment used by the ULSD trucks can be quite different than the LSD trucks. Even the cars built for the Mexican market can be different and some do not meet US standards so do not cross the border. Freightliner and International both build for the US and the Mexican market - but what they built do have some subtle but serious differences.

There have been a great many discussions here by people who know a lot more than I about what happens when you put LSD fuel in a ULSD vehicle over and extended period of time for extended miles. I seriously doubt Mexican trucking companies are buying ULSD trucks to operate on mostly LSD fuel.

Vehicles are built all over the world for different markets all over the world. In many cases they do not build the same vehicle for one country that they do for another country. Back some years ago I had a friend who would go to Germany to buy German made cars for the German market. He bought them to bring back to the US to sell to the US market. In order to sell them he had to do a number of modifications to make them legal in the US. Among the things I recall were side marker lights and something inside the doors to strengthen the door in the event of a crash. He had to do a number of other things I do not recall.

Vehicles built in Mexico go to different markets all over the world and they build them to meet that countries requirements. As far as fuel goes - at the point the US and Mexico do not have the same fuel requirements so they build differences into the units depending on where they are going. Much of the vehicle is the same but some things are different. You have to look very closely to see some of the differences.

As for the corruption issue: Mexico is like Switzerland compared to Cambodia and Nigeria and Egypt 3 places I have lived and worked, so I know corruption and I know it is all too easy to paint any situation with too broad a brush. Not every situation or official in Mexico is corrupt and to claim so is just the worst kind of nationalistic xenophobia.

It would be a great benefit to stop viewing our neighbor to the south through such a small lens. Mexico is a big diverse country and deserves more respect than it gets from some here.

I am sure that quote did not pertain to me as I don't think I ever get into the corruption issues in Mexico because I know next to nothing about it and have personally never had any problem or encounter with any corrupt official while in Mexico.

We love Mexico and I think are pretty much on record on this forum as we speak out about how much we love Mexico very often on this forum. We love the Mexican people and lots of things about Mexico and wish we could spend more time there and that we could find a way to better learn the Spanish language.

No the last quote did not pertain to you. And I believe that you are mostly right in how you perceive the truck market in Mexico. And the rest of the world. But the manufactureres, for very good reason, want to only make ONE kind of engine for the entire world and that is what they are working on.

That being said I think it's all too easy for Americans (Not you necessarily) and especially some on here to veiw Mexico and everything surrounding it as a hopeless mess. It just isnt true.

As for the truck issue my only contention was that Ed was right and that we will see ULSD in Mexico sooner rather than later.

[bighatnohorse]

Great Post Ed. Thanks for your reporting - I always look forward to hearing from you on this subject.
By the time my 2015 diesel truck is out of warranty the chances of getting USLD sob should be pretty good. Looking forward to it!

[briansue]

Yes for sure many of the class 8 trucks are ASSEMBLED in Mexico of parts made in several countries including the Usa. Your Ford, Chevy and Dodge pickups are also assembled in border towns in Mexico. This does not qualify them as being "Made" in Mexico. They are still American Made Trucks.

I do not mean to nitpick or argue. The areas where US branded vehicles are built in Mexico are not "border towns" other than maybe Mexicali where Kenworths have been built for a very long time for the Mexican market. 23,000 trucks per year from the KenMex Mexicali plant built for and sold in Mexico. Most of the other plants are much further down in Mexico.

Can Moisheh or Briansue claim that level of experience?

I owned my own truck and drove both local and 48 states for almost 10 years back in the late 70s through most of the 80s. Different times. But I still like trucks and pay some attention to what is going on. We have been on the road in our motorhome for 11 years now with almost every winter in Mexico so we pay some attention there too.

The vast majority of the Class 8 trucks being manufactured for the NORTH AMERICAN MARKET are ULSD trucks. Whether they go to Mexico or not.

You may be correct but I tend to doubt it since it probably is not a good idea to run a vehicle equipped for ULSD on LSD fuel for very long. Many trucks run upwards of 150,000 miles per year and burning the fuel found in most of Mexico could cause some problems. The basic engines are the same but the equipment used by the ULSD trucks can be quite different than the LSD trucks. Even the cars built for the Mexican market can be different and some do not meet US standards so do not cross the border. Freightliner and International both build for the US and the Mexican market - but what they built do have some subtle but serious differences.

There have been a great many discussions here by people who know a lot more than I about what happens when you put LSD fuel in a ULSD vehicle over and extended period of time for extended miles. I seriously doubt Mexican trucking companies are buying ULSD trucks to operate on mostly LSD fuel.

Vehicles are built all over the world for different markets all over the world. In many cases they do not build the same vehicle for one country that they do for another country. Back some years ago I had a friend who would go to Germany to buy German made cars for the German market. He bought them to bring back to the US to sell to the US market. In order to sell them he had to do a number of modifications to make them legal in the US. Among the things I recall were side marker lights and something inside the doors to strengthen the door in the event of a crash. He had to do a number of other things I do not recall.

Vehicles built in Mexico go to different markets all over the world and they build them to meet that countries requirements. As far as fuel goes - at the point the US and Mexico do not have the same fuel requirements so they build differences into the units depending on where they are going. Much of the vehicle is the same but some things are different. You have to look very closely to see some of the differences.

As for the corruption issue: Mexico is like Switzerland compared to Cambodia and Nigeria and Egypt 3 places I have lived and worked, so I know corruption and I know it is all too easy to paint any situation with too broad a brush. Not every situation or official in Mexico is corrupt and to claim so is just the worst kind of nationalistic xenophobia.

It would be a great benefit to stop viewing our neighbor to the south through such a small lens. Mexico is a big diverse country and deserves more respect than it gets from some here.

I am sure that quote did not pertain to me as I don't think I ever get into the corruption issues in Mexico because I know next to nothing about it and have personally never had any problem or encounter with any corrupt official while in Mexico.

We love Mexico and I think are pretty much on record on this forum as we speak out about how much we love Mexico very often on this forum. We love the Mexican people and lots of things about Mexico and wish we could spend more time there and that we could find a way to better learn the Spanish language.

[briansue]

1.
The emissions system used by vehicles designed for ULSD is not really a "bolt on". It is much more complicated than that. It involves an entire emissions programming set that monitors emissions and controls regeneration cycles, as well as fuel injection rates. Removing the system requires reprogramming of the ECM, which in itself is complicated and more easily done during manufacture than in an aftermarket environment.

2.
The emissions system doesn't remove the last 15ppm of sulfur. Sulfur compounds formed during combustion from this 15ppm are ignored by the emissions system and mostly pass out of the tailpipe. Anything above that concentration interferes with the functioning of the SCR (Selective Catalytic Reducer) which uses Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) to reduce oxides of Nitrogen (NOX) in the exhaust. When higher sulfur fuels are used, sulfur compounds temporarily poison the catalyst surfaces until the next regeneration cycle burns the sulfur out of the system.

Sorry for my poor wording.

By "bolt on" I meant to say the basic engine block and a lot of the basics are the same whether the rig is built for US or Mexico. The emission equipment differences do not mean it is a different engine. It is the same basic engine with a lot of added equipment and sensors that can send messages to the ECM to control operation - probably more poor wording.

I meant to point out that having available 15ppm fuel is better than having only 500ppm fuel as far as clean air is concerned. 15ppm sulfur has 485 fewer ppm than 500ppm.

I recognized that a lot of this stuff is a lot more complicated. I am probably not qualified to make a more scientific explanation. Many readers probably don't understand the more scientific explanations any more than I do.

[moisheh]

Thanks Ed. At least on the big trucks ( most) you can force a regen. On MH's that is not possible. But plugged DPF's on class 8 are still a problem. Some can be cleaned but others need to be replaced. When they are selling used
tractors at a dealer they often advertise that the DPF has been changed. We RV'rs are lucky. We have very few emission system problems. How many MH's have over 300,000 miles? In an OTR truck that is 2 years! The big carriers buy say 1000 trucks when they only need 750. That way have a truck ready to go. It can take up to a month to get parts for a new truck emission system.. They often have to engineer a new sensor to solve the problem. Down time is a serious problem. Since DEF began the systems are much better.

Moisheh

[Ed_White]

Moisheh, that DPF did NOT get plugged because of the fuel. There was a problem with all 2007.5, 2008, 2009 and some 2010 diesel emissions systems in the way that regeneration cycles were programmed.

Manufacturers during their testing hadn't taken into account what would happen if regeneration cycles were constantly interupted by the engine being turned off, or by insufficient rpm to maintain temperature in the exhaust system in stop/go traffic. These situations happened with vehicles like airporter busses, vehicles used for take-off power operations, and short haul delivery vans, some logging trucks, etc.

In those early years, when a regen was interupted, it did NOT resume when the vehicle was restarted, which over time resulted in more and more compacted deposits in the DPF. That has now been corrected, and to the best of my knowledge all manufacturers now use timer based regeneration cycles that resume the process at the next start if they were interupted by a key off. Typically the timer will be set to the range of 35 to 42 minutes.

Compacted DPFs are pretty much a thing of the past.