More on Mich state parks

[Jayco-noslide]

I don't know why my earlier post on Mich. state parks ripping off non-residents got closed so soon but I stand by my criticism. I can understand you residents wanting to defend your state parks but 1st off, we did plan and make reservations. But on the internet you can't tell if the sites are level or have a shared elec box or have no hard surface pad. We could have know the cost in advance but not that the sites aren't up to the $32 price. We camped at Holland SP, which was the best of the 3 but still basically a concrete parking lot with no water at the site. It was close to full. Next was Tachamenon Falls in the UP. About 30% full, with just fair, mostly grass sites with no water.Finally, Porcupine Mt. SP, about 25% full, had to change sites due to soggy, potentially muddy ground, not level, mixed grass/dirt surface. We've camped all over the country in state parks for 40 years. Yes, there is a lot of variation of quality but usually the price matches the quality better than in Mich. and most states do not charge an entrance fee on top of the camping fee,or if they do the total is usually closer to $25.

[drsteve]

I've camped in state parks for many years, and all I can say about the price is I'm surprised it hasn't risen MORE, considering all the funding cuts. The price is reasonable, IMHO, even for non-residents. The only ones with a legitimate beef are the motor home folks with a toad, getting charged for two entry fees.
It's a matter of personal taste of course, but in exchange for miles of beaches, and thousands of acres of woods, sand dunes, and trails, I'll forego on-site water, and I'll put up with a little sand in the showers. I don't want cable, or wi-fi. I don't even mind stopping at the dump station on the way out, unless there's a lot of bugs...

[wbwood]

TennesseeBob wrote:

wbwood wrote:


Again, we are lucky in North Carolina as they do not charge such a fee or have a park pass.

He can come South as they do not charge Entrance fees in Tennessee. Also We have a lot of Corps parks that camping is half price for seniors. :B

I've only been to one in TN and that was about 14 years ago and I don't remember an entrance fee then.

[wbwood]

EsoxLucius wrote:
The OP also has not offered which State Park system in the United States has park entrance fees which also cover camping fees. That, I think, is because they ain't any!

I don't think there was any question or mention as to an entrance fee covering camping.

[Sue_Bee]

You can complain all you like, however, if you choose to complain to random people, then your complaints aren't really constructive. If you contact the Michigan DNR and outline your experience in a well thought out, well written, unemotional letter, it may do nothing at all, or maybe they will choose to act in some manner about your complaints. Here is the rub- most Michigan state park campsites (especially those that offer electric), as well as Wisconsin state park campsites, are booked SOLID through the summer, with the occasional exception being week-days, or non electric. Due to the time honored, aged old system of supply and demand, it is not likely that the prices are going to go down, even in those campgrounds which are older, with uneven sites, and fewer amenities.

[Jayco-noslide]

I'm not going to beat a dead horse on my post but I will just add that I don't think enough people today complain about prices; especially younger folks. They just accept what's charged. I reserve the right to complain about the cost of a campsite relaive to it's condition(level,hook-ups,convenience, etc) even if it's just a few bucks.

[EsoxLucius]

The OP also has not offered which State Park system in the United States has park entrance fees which also cover camping fees. That, I think, is because they ain't any!

[EsoxLucius]

The OP's wife needs to go back to school and learn math. Even if they stayed all 8 nights (which they didn't) in the Premium Modern Campsites ($29) at Holland State Park their total for the non-resident Recreation Passport and camping fees would be $262.50 or $32.81 per day. Since they also stayed at Porcupine Mountains State Park with a $25 daily camping fee, and Tahquamenon Falls State Park with a $23 daily camping fee during those 8 days it is impossible to come up with $32 a day, even if they only stayed at the Porkies and the Falls one night each ($31.56). I'd say $262.50 for entry and eight nights of camping in three of the best state parks in Michigan is a pretty good deal. If they didn't take in what those parks have to offer while they were there, then its not our fault they didn't get their money's worth for what was essentially a $10.17 entry fee into each park. Beyond that, the cost of camping in each of those parks is more than fair.

[travelnutz]

wbwood,

Never any intention of "jumping on you" and sorry if you took it that way. The gist of my post was that the entrance fees for Michigan State Parks is certainly not high compared to other states with entrance fees.

Something you may not know is that according to the Michigan DNR data info, between 24 million and 29 million visitors use the our 100+ state parks each year now. Roughly 92% of these visitors have purchased yearly passes or $11 when vehicle registering yearly. The DNR data collected places the estimates of non-resident visitors at approx 23%. That's around 6.5 million and they just keep coming back year after year like clockwork so they can't be too unhappy like the OP seems to be.

Data shows that the 32 Great Lakes shoreline state parks with CG's alone account for an average of 74% of the total visitors yearly. Grand Haven SP tops 2 million each year for No 1 and Holland SP just 18 miles south is close behind at around 1.8 million and in 2nd place. Michigan has so many state parks and they are large in size on average. 3 of the largest on Great Lakes shorelines are Procupine Mtns SP is over 58,000 acrea and Tahquamenon Fall SP is roughly 50,000 acres and Wilderness SP in the Lower Peninsula at over 10,500 acres. Hartwick Pines SP inland in the Northern L.P. is about 9,700 acres. Close to 300,000 acres of parks alone and 746 boat launches plus 16 harbors for refuge on the "Michigan" Great Lakes shorelines along with 61 other harbors on Michigan's more than 3,200 miles of Great Lakes shoreline. Only Alaska has more shoreline and very few people!

Is managing and maintaining all of this land, structures, and assets, etc expensive? You darn right it is and our state parks are operational self-supporting mandated by laws passed many years ago and they are beautiful and well used and yet well maintained! It simply takes money to do it!

You may notice that the state park systems that do NOT have entrance fees are financed by the state government and that money comes from it's taxpayers. At least, every state I could find that has posted their info does it this way. Some also have very high site fees to help offset the lack of entrance fees.

There's NO free lunch!

[TennesseeBob]

wbwood wrote:


Again, we are lucky in North Carolina as they do not charge such a fee or have a park pass.

He can come South as they do not charge Entrance fees in Tennessee. Also We have a lot of Corps parks that camping is half price for seniors. :B

[wbwood]

Just for the heck of it, I looked at two other southern states (Georgia and South Carolina) and both have park passes. While I didn't see a non resident one on either page, the yearly fee is more than the non resident fee for Michigan. Georgia is $50 year or $5/day. Either way, for 8 days, the OP would pay more than at Michigan. In South Carolina, they charge $75 for a year or you can get a 7 day pass for $50. I did not see a daily fee, but I imagine they do have one. But with their higher rates, I imagine it would be at least $5 or more per day.

Again, we are lucky in North Carolina as they do not charge such a fee or have a park pass.

[wbwood]

travelnutz wrote:
wbwood,

With that kind of thinking, do you suppose you should add your yearly vehicle registration fee, insurance fee, gallons of fuel used, tire wear loss, vehicle depreciation, etc to your yearly grocery costs broken down by how many times you went to the grocery store each year?

He purchased a yearly pass good for any Michigan State Park for that calendar year and he only lives 220 miles from Michigan not a thousand or more miles away. Of course he could just go to state's next to his like Wisconsin where the yearly entrance fee is $35 for non-residents or Indiana where the yearly fee is $60 for non-residents. And these fees come with a lot less parks to choose from!

Michigan's $30.50 for a yearly permit to over a hundred state parks sure isn't high then, is it?

Don't jump on me, I'm just referring to his original post on the other thread and how he came to it. He lives only a couple hundred miles away, so what, if he only went for the 8 days, then it's still an additional cost to him. I understand the pass thing and it's just one of those things. But it is an additional cost no matter what.

[camperforlife]

To the OP, your neighbors in Indiana charge non residents and camp sites very much like your neighbors in Michigan. Looks like you will be camping to your west or south.

[B_s_Bunch]

So what are all you mich. people saying. If I come there to stay in your state parks that I would actually have to rough it??? :E We would love to have the chance to camp there close to the lake and tour the area. But really YALL need to chill a bit. Hope to visit soon Larry

[EsoxLucius]

Let's get this straight. A State Park admission fee is rarely, if ever, associated with camping. It is an entrance fee entitling one to enjoy the amenities of the park, excluding camping. Please tell us in which states a park admission/entrance fee entitles one to a campsite. As someone noted, not all park users camp. The non-resident annual state park admission fee (Recreation Passport) in Michigan is $30.50. This entitles the holder to enter and use state parks, recreation areas, state forest campgrounds (camping fee is extra) and non-motorized trail head and boat launch parking until their current license plate expires (Best to purchase at the same time of plate renewal). It does not cover camping fees. It is meant to allow the holder to drive into the designated state area and enjoy its natural features and facilities. Because campgrounds are a distinct special use facility, campground fees are charged to stay in them.

Holland State Park-Beach Campground has full hookup sites with direct sewer, water and electrical hook-ups with 20/30-amp or 50-amp service for $33. This is definitely comparable to full hookup sites in private campgrounds, which by the way are not surrounded by a beautiful state park. Holland State Park also has Premium Modern Sites with 50-amp electric hookups, modern toilet buildings, showers, wheelchair-accessible sites and sanitation stations, some sites are pull through, for $29. The Modern Campsites at Holland State Park feature electric hookups (amps will vary), modern toilet buildings, showers, wheelchair-accessible sites and sanitation stations, some sites are pull through, for $27.

Porcupine Mountains State Park has Modern Sites with electric hookups (amps will vary), modern toilet buildings, showers, wheelchair-accessible sites and sanitation stations for $25. I've stayed at the Rustic Sites at Presque Isle in 1985, way before they were $14. Great place to pitch one's lean-to.

Tahquamenon Falls State Park has Modern Sites with 50-amp electric hookups , modern toilet buildings, showers, wheelchair-accessible sites and sanitation stations for $23, and 30-amp Modern Sites at the Lower Falls/Rivermouth for $21. A great place to stay and explore, I'd recommend it to everyone.

[I_am_still_wayn]

Jayco-noslide:
I have a hard time understanding your complaint. Your home state of Illinois charges up to $35.00 per night depending on the park and the time of year. Also, they only give senior discounts to residents. Non-residents cannot get the discount even though they are eligible.