Push to privatize National Park Service campgrounds

[Community Alumni]

I don't mind having concessionaires run some of the National Parks, as it is being done now. However, I don't want to see our National Parks turned into garish Disneyland-like attractions.

I realize the Park Service is drastically underfunded and in need of billions for backlogged maintenance and repairs, but I rather see fees raised gradually to cover expenses instead of having private companies destroy the character of the national parks.

From the article:

Seniors are one group that might be hit hard by the policies, if adopted.

The memo argues that the 50 percent discount for seniors should apply only to base campsite fees and encourages NPS to introduce “new senior fee blackout periods during peak season periods.”

Committee pushes National Park Service to privatize campgrounds

[donut_dave]

badlands national park already does this at cedar pass campground.
$37 per night and no discount with senior card.

[goducks10]

agesilaus wrote:

Bert Ackerman wrote:

gemsworld wrote:


Seniors are one group that might be hit hard by the policies, if adopted.

The memo argues that the 50 percent discount for seniors should apply only to base campsite fees and encourages NPS to introduce “new senior fee blackout periods during peak season periods.”

A good idea that makes a lot of sense. Why do seniors get a %50 discount to begin with, or a discount at all.

I suppose the theory is that:
1) They've paid taxes for 45+ year
2) They theoretically have lower incomes
3) They vote in very high numbers and are quite vindictive towards politicians that take away some benefit. They are also very loud while being vindictive.

Number three is obviously the most important from the political viewpoint.

I'm still paying Fed taxes on SS and my Pension.
Yes I do have a lower income.
x2 on 3.

FWIW We hardly go to NP.s But we do do a lot of FS camping where we get 50% off.

[Terryallan]

Bert Ackerman wrote:

gemsworld wrote:


Seniors are one group that might be hit hard by the policies, if adopted.

The memo argues that the 50 percent discount for seniors should apply only to base campsite fees and encourages NPS to introduce “new senior fee blackout periods during peak season periods.”

A good idea that makes a lot of sense. Why do seniors get a %50 discount to begin with, or a discount at all.

for the same reason seniors get their SS, their Medicare. We have paid for it since we were in high school. Then when we turned 62 1/2 we bought Senior Passes. Passes that allow us to get a discount. Have you ever bought a season ticket / pass? that is what our senior Pass does for us.
Those National Parks don't pay for themselves. Fee only make a small amount of what it takes to run them. They are paid for with our taxes. Taxes we have been paying for 45 to 60 years. I have been camping in NP CGs for nearly 45 years. I have been paying full price for nearly 45 years. Now I intend to enjoy one of the small perks of being old. Shoot dude. it's only $10.00 to 12.00 per night. Not going to break the treasury.

So yes. We have earned a discount. and when you reach senior age. You will be able to get one as well.

[goducks10]

gbopp wrote:

Bert Ackerman wrote:
I don't get the senior discount thing and never have despite being of the age I can get it at different places.

If you're given a discount for something because of your age, do you demand to pay full price?

x2

[gbopp]

Bert Ackerman wrote:
I don't get the senior discount thing and never have despite being of the age I can get it at different places.

If you're given a discount for something because of your age, do you demand to pay full price?

[Bert_Ackerman]

Bob806 wrote:
IMHO our government could send more $$ to the NPS. Perhaps raise our fees slightly for usage, but leave the senior discounts in place.We could debate where to cut elsewhere so the NPS could be properly funded, but I'm sure we can all agree we need these parks properly maintained for our enjoyment.

So basically raise fees and make cuts but do so at the expense of some other demographic group?

I don't get the senior discount thing and never have despite being of the age I can get it at different places. So what if I've paid taxes for X number of years. If I can afford to pull a TT or drive a MH thousands of miles to a NP, I can afford to pay the standard price. The same with my breakfast, dinner, or anything else.

[agesilaus]

There is a multi park vendor who does this sort of thing. He takes over State and Federal park campgrounds. He runs them, maintains them, improves them and still pays the state or Federal agency a fee for doing so. And he does not raise the fees and still makes a profit. He runs the Coyote Blog That link to his Park Privatization pages, where he explains how he does it. He hires many workcampers. Let me warn the delicate among us that is is a strong Libertarian and while I agree with his economic views his other views I don't. The other side of the fence will reverse that.

So it can be done, some of the parks he manages are on the top ten Arizona Parks list. So he improves parks and does not convert them to "Disney lands'

I just spotted this:

"I was asked to write a 400-word essay for an outdoor magazine on “should national parks be privatized”. Here my response. By the way, I put the stuff about myself and my company in under duress. It was not in the original draft and he wanted something personal.

Should National Park’s be privatized, in the sense that they are turned entirely over to private owners? No. Public lands are in public hands for a reason — the public wants the government, not, say, Ritz-Carlton, to decide the use and character and access to the land. No one wants a McDonald’s in front of Old Faithful, a common fear I hear time and again when privatization is mentioned.

However, once the agency determines the character of and facilities on the land, should their operation (as opposed to their ownership) be privatized? Sure. The NPS faces hundreds of millions of dollars in capital needs and deferred maintenance. It is crazy to use its limited budget to have Federal civil service employees cleaning bathrooms and manning the gatehouse, when private companies have proven they can do a quality job so much less expensively. The US Forest Service, for example, has had private operators in over a thousand of its largest parks for nearly thirty years, and unlike state parks agencies or even the NPS, it is not considering park closures or accumulating deferred maintenance, despite having its recreation budget axed. Why? Because its partnership program with private operators is a fundamentally sounder, lower-cost approach to park operations."
Read the rest here

And that example of Yellowstone, that is one NPS park that has privatized their campgrounds for years.

[GeoBoy]

Why do we fund foreign governments but are unwilling to fund our national treasures?:M

[Bob806]

IMHO our government could send more $$ to the NPS. Perhaps raise our fees slightly for usage, but leave the senior discounts in place.We could debate where to cut elsewhere so the NPS could be properly funded, but I'm sure we can all agree we need these parks properly maintained for our enjoyment.

[wildtoad]

Like a lot of things the cost of establishing a federal park, county or national hi-ways, public schools is peanuts compared to the cost of maintaining them year over year and is not considered or factored in. I constantly see news stories decrying the condition of infrastructure, our failing schools, costs of this and that. Ask anybody on the street and they will say that want all of these things to be repaired, supported, brought up to current standards or expectations of service. Now ask these same people how much more they are willing to pay in federal, state, local taxes or are willing to help by serving and you get a lot of crickets.

I have no issue if there becomes a private/public contract to address the federal park system. I see no reason NOT to allow one or more companies to take over the concessions, camping, store operations in federal parks.

Keep the basic entry fee for federal parks reasonable so most of not all citizens can come experience the parks. They don’t need to eat there, camp there, of buy overpriced made in China souvenirs.

[gbopp]

Like any business, it's all about the bottom line.
The Park Service is drastically underfunded and needs to raise money for maintenance, etc..

I agree, paying taxes for 40+ years should count for something.
And, I don't want to see our parks become another Disneyland.
But, like buying gas/diesel, when the price goes up we grumble, whine and pay the higher price.

[dedmiston]

So far this looks OK. Please keep it civil and nonpartisan.

[Community Alumni]

agesilaus wrote:
The report ot a moderator button still is FUBAR so I'm bringing this to the moderators ATTENTION MODERATOR before is devolves into a political furball.

This is not political. This is an informative article that should be of interest to practically every member of this group.

[agesilaus]

Bert Ackerman wrote:

gemsworld wrote:


Seniors are one group that might be hit hard by the policies, if adopted.

The memo argues that the 50 percent discount for seniors should apply only to base campsite fees and encourages NPS to introduce “new senior fee blackout periods during peak season periods.”

A good idea that makes a lot of sense. Why do seniors get a %50 discount to begin with, or a discount at all.

I suppose the theory is that:
1) They've paid taxes for 45+ year
2) They theoretically have lower incomes
3) They vote in very high numbers and are quite vindictive towards politicians that take away some benefit. They are also very loud while being vindictive.

Number three is obviously the most important from the political viewpoint.

[Bert_Ackerman]

gemsworld wrote:


Seniors are one group that might be hit hard by the policies, if adopted.

The memo argues that the 50 percent discount for seniors should apply only to base campsite fees and encourages NPS to introduce “new senior fee blackout periods during peak season periods.”

A good idea that makes a lot of sense. Why do seniors get a %50 discount to begin with, or a discount at all.