2017 Cedar Creek Champagne Edition 38EL

[Lurker1]

All-

We're seriously considering this trailer... we're loving it. Could someone who owns it (or a 2016 would work, too!!!) confirm the pin weight you're seeing?

The website makes it seem the pin weight is really light, almost too light (2500 lbs). Pin weight's a concern for me, so looking for someone who owns one to confirm...

If you've got time, would also like to hear your impressions.

Thanks everyone!

[Me_Again]

DKRITTER wrote:
We have a 2016 36CKTS so hopefully it's close,

Last Christmas we loaded it up for a couple of weeks in the Texas panhandle to spend time with family and also to hunt.

We stopped at the CAT Scale at a Flying J and did the weigh. I compared it to a truck only weigh I had done previously and the trailer added 15K to the weight, about 12K was on the trailer axles and 1K on the front axle of the truck and 2K on the rear axle.

Say what, is your 5th wheel hitch is the back seat of the truck? NO 5th WHEEL PIN WEIGHT is going to add 1K to the front axle of a TV. You need to return to the scale.

Here are some real world weights towing a 16K 5th wheel.
Front TV 5120
Rear TV 6620
Sub Truck 11740
Trailer axles 12780
GCW 24520

Pin weight 3000-3200, Front of truck ready to tow is in the 5100 range. Little or no pin weight is on the front axle.

[DKRITTER]

We have a 2016 36CKTS so hopefully it's close,

Last Christmas we loaded it up for a couple of weeks in the Texas panhandle to spend time with family and also to hunt.

We stopped at the CAT Scale at a Flying J and did the weigh. I compared it to a truck only weigh I had done previously and the trailer added 15K to the weight, about 12K was on the trailer axles and 1K on the front axle of the truck and 2K on the rear axle.

[Cummins12V98]

CC38EL wrote:
15,600

You will easily add 900# of "stuff" if not more with your additional winter load and be at your GVWR.

[CC38EL]

Our 'winter load' includes clothes (125lbs), food and beverage (200lbs), medicine/vitamins/hygiene (40lbs), and misc (200lbs).

The clothes are spread over the front 15' of the rig and the rest is spread across the middle 15' of the rig.

I calculate the clothes at 75% of total for pin weight 125*.75=94lbs.
And the other stuff at 25% of total for pin weight 440*.25=110lbs.

3160+94+110=3364lbs pin weight calculated.

Your mileage may vary. However, one thing we've noticed after owning 2 fifth wheels is that some are very 'balanced'. This 38EL is one of those.

What I mean is, when you divide most fifth wheels into thirds, the axles are in the front part of the back third of the chassis. This 38EL has the axles in the back of the middle third of the chassis.

The result is a shorter distance between the center of the rear axles and the pin and more distance from the center of the axles to the back of rig. I measured several brands/models to confirm this observation. In fifth wheels, this a positive attribute because it puts most of the load in the axles and not the pin.

Coming from motorhomes, the inverse was true. If the rear wheels were close to the rear of the chassis (farther away from the front axles) the rig rode better and was easier to distribute the load. If the distance between the rear axles and the front axles was less (closer together), people experienced ride issues and had problems keeping the weight distributed well enough not be a problem.

Just my opinion through observation, talking to people and reading reviews.

[CC38EL]

15,600

[Cummins12V98]

CC38EL wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention in the original weight..... that includes a combo washer/dryer in the front closet.

Right over the pin.

What does the RV weigh before the winter load is added?


GVWR is 16,485# 20 percent pin is 3,297#, 25 percent is 4,121#.

[CC38EL]

Oh, I forgot to mention in the original weight..... that includes a combo washer/dryer in the front closet.

Right over the pin.

[Cummins12V98]

" loaded it with most of our stuff except for clothes, food, and some stuff we take south for winter."

Lurker1, you may want to think about that statement! Those items will mostly transfer to the pin weight.

He should get back to us with the REAL pin weight later, it will be much more than one would think.

[Lurker1]

CC38EL wrote:
We actually own one, a 2017 38EL and love it also. Purchased and loaded it with most of our stuff except for clothes, food, and some stuff we take south for winter.

Filled up with full tank of water, full propane, awnings, and slide toppers (which were added at the dealer).

With wife and dog in truck, full fuel, and hitch:
Axle weight before: 3260
Axle weight after: 6420
Calculated pin weight: 3160

CAT scale.

Perfect. Very much appreciated!

[Cummins12V98]

It's pretty simple to figure pin weight. Take 25 percent of the RV's GVWR. If 16K the pin can easily be as much as 4K.

I am an extreme example. My GVWR is 21K but the reality is my RV weighs 23K. My pin is around 5,800# at about 25 percent.

[JTrac]

goducks10 wrote:

JTrac wrote:

Lurker1 wrote:

JTrac wrote:
Ours was rated with about the same hitch weight. We added a Splendide washer/dryer, which sits by the front closet just like this model, and it weighs about 240 pounds. When we travel for a month the closet is full of clothes and shoes. Then factor in the stuff in the front storage bay and it adds up quickly. Fully loaded ours weighs in at 3100 pounds, a 600 pound gain from the original rating.

3100 works for me. 3500 doesn't. Man, I'm right on the edge!

Appreciate the info.

Sounds like you may have a good answer from Jim with the same model. I know things vary because of the dynamics of different trucks and weight distribution in the trailer but we started out towing our rig with a 2012 GMC 3500 single rear wheel with the standard (6' 6") bed. We were right at the edge of the load limit for the truck with the 3100 pounds. All other weights had some cushion. For 3 years I fought a bucking, chucking problem that was severe enough to scare the wife to the point she did not want to go anymore. Smooth roads were fine but the rough stuff not so much. I put air bags on the axles and a Center Point air suspension on the trailer which helped but the problem was still there under the right conditions.

I finally gave up, sold the 2012 and got the dually. I even changed hitches to a Trailer Saver BD3 air ride hitch and have the smoothest ride I have ever had. Best of all the wife is happy. I am certainly not suggesting you will have problems because most don't. Just telling my story. I hope you have nothing but smooth roads and good times ahead.

Did you swap to the DRW and BD3 at the same time? Just wondering which one showed the most improvement.

I actually bought the BD3 just before I sold the 2012. I had a B&W with the turnover ball hook up and tried to do the same thing with the BD3 by using an adapter plate made by Curt that connected to the gooseneck. The problem was the BD3 wound up being 6 inches closer to the cab than the B&W with no way to make any adjustments. It would have left me with an uncomfortable turning radius so I did not try it. I probably could have installed some hitch rails to move it back but I already had a friend waiting to buy my truck and the wife was all for the change as we had a 6000 mile trip coming up. So, no I never tried it on the short bed.

I will say the BD3 is top notch. It allows the truck and trailer to work mostly independent of each other which stops the motion of the fifth wheel from being transmitted to the truck. I certainly think the air ride hitch would have helped with the 2012 but since I didn't try it just can't say for sure. I really think the dually would have been the biggest improvement as it is a better match for our rig. The BD3 is kind of like icing on the cake.

[goducks10]

JTrac wrote:

Lurker1 wrote:

JTrac wrote:
Ours was rated with about the same hitch weight. We added a Splendide washer/dryer, which sits by the front closet just like this model, and it weighs about 240 pounds. When we travel for a month the closet is full of clothes and shoes. Then factor in the stuff in the front storage bay and it adds up quickly. Fully loaded ours weighs in at 3100 pounds, a 600 pound gain from the original rating.

3100 works for me. 3500 doesn't. Man, I'm right on the edge!

Appreciate the info.

Sounds like you may have a good answer from Jim with the same model. I know things vary because of the dynamics of different trucks and weight distribution in the trailer but we started out towing our rig with a 2012 GMC 3500 single rear wheel with the standard (6' 6") bed. We were right at the edge of the load limit for the truck with the 3100 pounds. All other weights had some cushion. For 3 years I fought a bucking, chucking problem that was severe enough to scare the wife to the point she did not want to go anymore. Smooth roads were fine but the rough stuff not so much. I put air bags on the axles and a Center Point air suspension on the trailer which helped but the problem was still there under the right conditions.

I finally gave up, sold the 2012 and got the dually. I even changed hitches to a Trailer Saver BD3 air ride hitch and have the smoothest ride I have ever had. Best of all the wife is happy. I am certainly not suggesting you will have problems because most don't. Just telling my story. I hope you have nothing but smooth roads and good times ahead.

Did you swap to the DRW and BD3 at the same time? Just wondering which one showed the most improvement.

[JTrac]

Lurker1 wrote:

JTrac wrote:
Ours was rated with about the same hitch weight. We added a Splendide washer/dryer, which sits by the front closet just like this model, and it weighs about 240 pounds. When we travel for a month the closet is full of clothes and shoes. Then factor in the stuff in the front storage bay and it adds up quickly. Fully loaded ours weighs in at 3100 pounds, a 600 pound gain from the original rating.

3100 works for me. 3500 doesn't. Man, I'm right on the edge!

Appreciate the info.

Sounds like you may have a good answer from Jim with the same model. I know things vary because of the dynamics of different trucks and weight distribution in the trailer but we started out towing our rig with a 2012 GMC 3500 single rear wheel with the standard (6' 6") bed. We were right at the edge of the load limit for the truck with the 3100 pounds. All other weights had some cushion. For 3 years I fought a bucking, chucking problem that was severe enough to scare the wife to the point she did not want to go anymore. Smooth roads were fine but the rough stuff not so much. I put air bags on the axles and a Center Point air suspension on the trailer which helped but the problem was still there under the right conditions.

I finally gave up, sold the 2012 and got the dually. I even changed hitches to a Trailer Saver BD3 air ride hitch and have the smoothest ride I have ever had. Best of all the wife is happy. I am certainly not suggesting you will have problems because most don't. Just telling my story. I hope you have nothing but smooth roads and good times ahead.

[CC38EL]

We actually own one, a 2017 38EL and love it also. Purchased and loaded it with most of our stuff except for clothes, food, and some stuff we take south for winter.

Filled up with full tank of water, full propane, awnings, and slide toppers (which were added at the dealer).

With wife and dog in truck, full fuel, and hitch:
Axle weight before: 3260
Axle weight after: 6420
Calculated pin weight: 3160

CAT scale.