6 volt vs. 12 volt batteries

[dieseldan723]

I do not want to start a debate I just have a simple question about the equipment my new trailer came with. My previous two trailers had 2 12 volt batteries. My new Keystone Fuzion 301 came with 2 6 volt batteries.

What are the pluses and minuses of 2-6 volt vs. 2-12 volt batteries?

Because the onboard generator depends on the house batteries I plan to carry a Honda EU 2000i inverter as a backup.

Thanks for your help!

[allcool]

Crazy Cooter wrote:

The A/C is a Dometic Brisk Air 15K BTU and I installed a Supco SPPE E series. If I remember right, the instructions said to parallel to the OE cap? I also read it on a write up here: http://www.modmyrv.com/2009/05/27/rv-air-conditioner-hard-start-capacitor

Well, SPP E is a serieies of hard start kits.
Goes from SPP 4 -- SPP 10, which one did you use, makes a big difference in starting 'kick'.
I put a SPP 8 in my Dometic 15,000, it starts no problem with a 2800 gen/inverter.

Did you discard your oem start cap when adding the hard start kit..?

Might want to check a few things since you seem to be having a hard start condition.
1) If you have a 3 terminal run cap make sure the hard start is connected to the HERM and the COM terminals.

2) Test with a meter your run cap between the HERM and the COM terminals for 45mfd.You can test the FAN 5mfd tap also. Pretty sure most newer Dometics take a 45+5mfd run capacitor, it runs both the compressor and the fan. Look on the cap for its specs, the 5mfd tap is for the fan only, 45mfd for compressor. It doesn't have to be exact, just within + - 5% max.
Make sure to disconnect all wires first and discharge the capacitor by jumping out all terminals together to COM, with all power off, carefully with insulated needle nose or something similar.

[Crazy_Cooter]

dieseldan723 wrote:

Crazy Cooter wrote:


My Deka 8D's are actually listed at 246Ah vs the GC2's 180Ah giving me 30% more capacity for 12% more cost. The fit was just a plus! Around here, Trojan is the preferred poor man's battery in the flooded variety, but the East Penn line is easier and cheaper for me to get in AGM's. Since they are virtually sealed, storage is super easy to get at in the front cabinet where the optional generator would have been installed.

Looking at it over again, I would have just done the led's first negating the need for the third battery. I went from 96Ah with every light on down to 26Ah with way more available light with the led's. I did almost all the lights except for the outside scare lights and the halogen back up lights since the rarely run anyway.

Interesting....how are you able to measure the before and after effects of the light swap? What kind of meter do I need to invest in to gather this kind of useful information and what other uses would the meter have? I like gadgets! 🙂

I have the BMK or Battery Monitor Kit added to my Magnum inverter remote. It allows me to see all kinds of data about my system at a glance. There are many of the same type of stand alone units available if you don't plan to add an inverter.

[dieseldan723]

smkettner wrote:

dieseldan723 wrote:
Interesting....how are you able to measure the before and after effects of the light swap? What kind of meter do I need to invest in to gather this kind of useful information and what other uses would the meter have? I like gadgets! 🙂

No real need to measure. Just follow the specs.
Incandescent 1500 milliamps.
LED 150 to 300 milliamps.
About the same lumens (some more, some less).

LEDs had the effect to about double my battery.

Ahhh. I understand math. A simple subtraction problem! 😉

[dieseldan723]

smkettner wrote:

dieseldan723 wrote:
Thanks for the helpful information. I do believe that most battery banks ARE woefully undersized. In the past (2-12 volt batteries) I would charge the batteries all day for a full charge. Just running the heater overnight (in cold weather) would completely drain both batteries. I was hoping that 2-6 volt batteries would prolong the battery life so it could at least have enough juice to start the generator in the morning! 🙂 As a backup I will be bringing my Honda.

I have considered adding two more batteries for a 4 bank system.

Now we have a real issue to solve. (vs another 12v or 6v debate)

The real trouble might be your charging system. You need to verify that your converter will charge at 14.4/14.8 volts and actually does when you expect it too. Get in there and find the converter model and post it up for best suggestions.

Also consider a real battery monitor to count amp/hours.

When you start going 4+ batteries the 6v starts to look better for keeping them balanced and eliminates the "one is dead so I am stuck" issue.

Since you have a Honda great.... but also consider a separate 12v start battery for the generator. Or a jump box to get started.

This is what the panel says:

Power Converter System - PD4590K18L
Input: 105-130 VAC. 50 - 60 Hz 1550W
Output: 13.6 VDC. 90A
Class CTL Distribution Panelboard
Type 1 Enclosure (indoor) 812385A

Does this give you what you need? I wish I was a better electrician. I am pretty handy with mechanical things but electrical issues just aren't my thing....yet!

[time2roll]

dieseldan723 wrote:
Interesting....how are you able to measure the before and after effects of the light swap? What kind of meter do I need to invest in to gather this kind of useful information and what other uses would the meter have? I like gadgets! 🙂

No real need to measure. Just follow the specs.
Incandescent 1500 milliamps.
LED 150 to 300 milliamps.
About the same lumens (some more, some less).

LEDs had the effect to about double my battery.

[dieseldan723]

Crazy Cooter wrote:


My Deka 8D's are actually listed at 246Ah vs the GC2's 180Ah giving me 30% more capacity for 12% more cost. The fit was just a plus! Around here, Trojan is the preferred poor man's battery in the flooded variety, but the East Penn line is easier and cheaper for me to get in AGM's. Since they are virtually sealed, storage is super easy to get at in the front cabinet where the optional generator would have been installed.

Looking at it over again, I would have just done the led's first negating the need for the third battery. I went from 96Ah with every light on down to 26Ah with way more available light with the led's. I did almost all the lights except for the outside scare lights and the halogen back up lights since the rarely run anyway.

Interesting....how are you able to measure the before and after effects of the light swap? What kind of meter do I need to invest in to gather this kind of useful information and what other uses would the meter have? I like gadgets! 🙂

[Crazy_Cooter]

allcool wrote:

Crazy Cooter wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Cooter,

With 1180 watts can you run your roof air from an inverter?

I most certainly could, but my inverter won't start the 15K A/C even though I installed a larger capacitor on it. Neither my Honda EB3500 or Yamaha 2800i will even start it! It must be a power hog.... I find it interesting that I can run it at home on the 15A plug without low voltage, but even that Honda generator with it's rated 23A+ output hates it!

I was toying with a smaller (8-10K) roof unit or a split for the bedroom for those warm/humid nights while on the road, but I really don't want to loose my roof vent or add more weight. As much s I need AC, it really isn't worth it yet.

I'm currently looking into the new 3K Magnum MSH3012M Hybrid inverter that will boost the incoming AC to start that bad boy and give me a little larger charger. My last trailer with a 360watts solar, Freedom 20 inverter, and 4 Trojan T105's would run the 13.5 AC for quite a while.

Not sure what larger capacitor you installed.
What might help is add a kick start kit, a HD electronic potential relay and start cap. And remove the current start cap if it already has one. Actually that might start you right up. Worth a try. A kick start kit cost around $30-40. As long as you're in there, might want to check/test the mfd on the run cap to make sure its in spec.

Let me know what a/c make and model#, and what compressor make and model# you have in your a/c and I might be able to make a suggestion on whats the best start assist kit to buy for your application.

jmo

The A/C is a Dometic Brisk Air 15K BTU and I installed a Supco SPPE E series. If I remember right, the instructions said to parallel to the OE cap? I also read it on a write up here: http://www.modmyrv.com/2009/05/27/rv-air-conditioner-hard-start-capacitor

[allcool]

Crazy Cooter wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Cooter,

With 1180 watts can you run your roof air from an inverter?

I most certainly could, but my inverter won't start the 15K A/C even though I installed a larger capacitor on it. Neither my Honda EB3500 or Yamaha 2800i will even start it! It must be a power hog.... I find it interesting that I can run it at home on the 15A plug without low voltage, but even that Honda generator with it's rated 23A+ output hates it!

I was toying with a smaller (8-10K) roof unit or a split for the bedroom for those warm/humid nights while on the road, but I really don't want to loose my roof vent or add more weight. As much s I need AC, it really isn't worth it yet.

I'm currently looking into the new 3K Magnum MSH3012M Hybrid inverter that will boost the incoming AC to start that bad boy and give me a little larger charger. My last trailer with a 360watts solar, Freedom 20 inverter, and 4 Trojan T105's would run the 13.5 AC for quite a while.

Not sure what larger capacitor you installed.
What might help is add a kick start kit, a HD electronic potential relay and start cap. And remove the current start cap if it already has one. Actually that might start you right up. Worth a try. A kick start kit cost around $30-40. As long as you're in there, might want to check/test the mfd on the run cap to make sure its in spec.

Let me know what a/c make and model#, and what compressor make and model# you have in your a/c and I might be able to make a suggestion on whats the best start assist kit to buy for your application.

jmo

[time2roll]

My Prosine 1800 will start and run my 13.5 air just as smooth as plugged in.
Limited battery, solar and ventalation would prevent any long term use.

[Crazy_Cooter]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Cooter,

With 1180 watts can you run your roof air from an inverter?

I most certainly could, but my inverter won't start the 15K A/C even though I installed a larger capacitor on it. Neither my Honda EB3500 or Yamaha 2800i will even start it! It must be a power hog.... I find it interesting that I can run it at home on the 15A plug without low voltage, but even that Honda generator with it's rated 23A+ output hates it!

I was toying with a smaller (8-10K) roof unit or a split for the bedroom for those warm/humid nights while on the road, but I really don't want to loose my roof vent or add more weight. As much s I need AC, it really isn't worth it yet.

I'm currently looking into the new 3K Magnum MSH3012M Hybrid inverter that will boost the incoming AC to start that bad boy and give me a little larger charger. My last trailer with a 360watts solar, Freedom 20 inverter, and 4 Trojan T105's would run the 13.5 AC for quite a while.

smkettner wrote:
1180w of solar must be an RV.net record :B

It is the largest RV system I have ever heard of or seen, although I'm sure someone has to have done more somewhere. I'm surprised more people have not noticed in my posts, but I always call it 1.2 KW and I think it confuses everyone!;)

[time2roll]

1180w of solar must be an RV.net record :B

[pianotuna]

Hi Cooter,

With 1180 watts can you run your roof air from an inverter?

[Crazy_Cooter]

SteveAE wrote:

crosscheck wrote:

I am convinced that a good solar and battery system is the key to running all of the electronics as long as you are not extravagant with your electricity.

X2
Steve

X3! I went a little overkill for winter camping with 1180 watts mounted on the roof, but I want to be able to live in better comfort than home while on vacation without a generator running all the time.

I highly recommend LED lights and possibly some other type of heating like a Wave 8 catalytic to the OP BEFORE upgrading the battery bank as it is cheaper and a whole lot lighter to conserve energy in the end.

allcool wrote:

Crazy Cooter wrote:
:S

I chose three 8D 12V's this time around because the size fit better and $ vs. AH was a little cheaper for AGM's.

Nice battery bank..!

If they are the Trojan's, thats almost $2000 for your battery pack. They are 230ah ea... very nice.

Each battery weighs in at 170# and is 20" long by 10" wide... I'd need a crane(and a new back) to change out your batteries...lol

I looked at those 8d 12v agm Trojan batteries couple years ago,very nice. Almost got them.
I went with the DieHard Marine RV AGM Battery Size 31m, 100ah and 75#(identical to Odyssey 2150). Almost 1/2 the cost for 2 of them, 3year total(not prorated) free replacement warranty, and individual weight made my decision.
If money, warranty and weight weren't an issue for me, the more powerful 8D 12v agm Trojans are the upper echelon of 12v agm rv batteries...

jmo

My Deka 8D's are actually listed at 246Ah vs the GC2's 180Ah giving me 30% more capacity for 12% more cost. The fit was just a plus! Around here, Trojan is the preferred poor man's battery in the flooded variety, but the East Penn line is easier and cheaper for me to get in AGM's. Since they are virtually sealed, storage is super easy to get at in the front cabinet where the optional generator would have been installed.

Looking at it over again, I would have just done the led's first negating the need for the third battery. I went from 96Ah with every light on down to 26Ah with way more available light with the led's. I did almost all the lights except for the outside scare lights and the halogen back up lights since the rarely run anyway.

[SteveAE]

crosscheck wrote:

I am convinced that a good solar and battery system is the key to running all of the electronics as long as you are not extravagant with your electricity.

X2
Steve

[crosscheck]

I have considered adding two more batteries for a 4 bank system.

Dieseldan723,
Our first TC had 1 truck battery that powered a few lights and furnace fan. Manual water pump, ice box. It had limited use.

Our present TC which is our forth, has 330W solar, 4 -6VAGM batteries, 2000W inverter, LED,s, micro, AC/DC fridge/freezer. We dry camp or boondock almost always. Lots of daily short time use of hairdryer, blender, toaster, even micro. Honda genny time is a few hours over the last 3 years of close to 200 days camping.

I am convinced that a good solar and battery system is the key to running all of the electronics as long as you are not extravagant with your electricity.

At the very least, expand your battery system.

Dave