California Non-commercial class A license ***New question***

[AirSupport]

Pretty old topic in general and yes I did use the SEARCH feature here for an answer, but didn’t find one. Any experience/help on this matter is greatly appreciated.

The 5ver I want is a Riverstone Legacy around 18,000+ GVWR. So I know I MUST get a “non commercial class-A license” Here in Cali (no, I can’t move). However, according to DMV literature on their website, it states that I must bring in the truck and trailer I want to be licensed for p, in order to take the driving portion of the class-A test. They say to have a Class-A driver drive my rig for me because I’m not yet licensed.

The question is, how on earth is one supposed to buy a heavy trailer from a dealership and drive it off to one’s storage facility if one can’t find a Class A driver??? The issue is DMV will NOT ALLOW one to take the test without the indeed heavy truck and trailer set-up already in possession.

Bottom line, I can’t get the proper class license without having the trailer first, but I can’t get the trailer without having the proper license. What a PITA!

Anybody else go through this experience? It sure would be nice if DMV gave us a temporary permit to at least pick up the new trailer, drive directly to storage and then don’t drive it again on public roads until the day of the DMV test.

Unless I’m missing a loop hole here on this, how did you all do this process here in CALIFORNIA when you started out with a heavier than 15K lbs 5ver? I suspect many just rolled the dice and drove off the lot with their new rig and did what they had to do.

I’m really confused on what to do. Do I just go get the trailer anyway and bring it to storage and then the day of the DMV test, pay someone with a Class A license to drive it to the DMV for me? I don’t mind finding a driver for one day at the DMV, but going long distance to a dealer when buying it, maybe even out of state and finding a driver would be unrealistic I think. If it’s what I have to do, then so be it I will. But if there’s any other option acceptable with the state that I haven’t discovered, please tell me your secret to this State “mess.”

[discovery4us]

94-D2 thanks for the info. These look like the same CVC the DOT officers gave me when I was researching double tow in CA. Based on these they stated that if I was in a "pickup truck / motor truck" and appeared to be under 65' they would consider it legal.

[94-D2]

Discovery4us:

There used to be a loop hole created by legislation that has already expired out of the vehicle code. The use of a pick to tow more than one vehicle is stated below:


21715 CVC. a)?No passenger vehicle regardless of weight, or any other motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen, shall draw or tow more than one vehicle in combination, except that an auxiliary dolly or tow dolly may be used with the towed vehicle.

(b)?No motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds unladen shall tow any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more gross.

465 CVC A “passenger vehicle” is any motor vehicle, other than a motortruck, truck tractor, or a bus, as defined in Section 233, and used or maintained for the transportation of persons.
The term “passenger vehicle” shall include a housecar.

So, if your prohibited from doing so in 21715, you must use a motor truck or a pickup.

471 CVC . A “pickup truck” is a motor truck with a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. “Pickup truck” does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a “utility bed”.

As far a length goes, all length limitations are established in 35400-35401 CVC. 65’ is it unless you can comply with 35401 (b) VC. But I have never seen an rv semi trailer at 28’6” and a pull trailer 28’6” Or under being pulled specifically by a truck tractor.

So, no pulling double trailers with a suburban.

[laknox]

Last I checked in AZ statutes, it's legal to double-tow here, provided that the 1st hitch is a FW, length not over 65' BUT up to a 10' "overhang" behind the rear axle is allowed, giving an OAL of no more than 75'. IIRC, GCWR for the truck may not be exceeded. Proper lights for the trailer are a given. If the 2nd trailer is > 3k GVW, brakes must also be used.

Lyle

[discovery4us]

94-D2 wrote:
The only thing that changed was the 5th wheel restriction (10k-15k) that allowed a second connection to the 5th wheel only. That sunset in like 2008 or something. The lobbyist who facilitated the exemption bill wanted to tow his boat too so he got it in. CHP opposed that exemption but it flew anyway. That is gone now, so not an issue. Other than that, class A all through time as far as the last 30 years or so go. The requirement for a pick up over 4k to tow anything over 6K has been around for decades.

So in your opinion is the not a "passenger vehicle" for towing more than one item still a loop hole? I have never been able to find any language in the CA vehicle code that specifically spoke of a recreational "pickup combination", "motor truck combination", etc. nor was any of the DOT officers able to lead me to it. All have agreed that for recreational 65' was the maximum length regardless.

While I think it is goofy at least the non-commercial class A and FW endorsement are spelled out with weights and number of axles so we can avoid the muddy interpretations.

[94-D2]

The only thing that changed was the 5th wheel restriction (10k-15k) that allowed a second connection to the 5th wheel only. That sunset in like 2008 or something. The lobbyist who facilitated the exemption bill wanted to tow his boat too so he got it in. CHP opposed that exemption but it flew anyway. That is gone now, so not an issue. Other than that, class A all through time as far as the last 30 years or so go. The requirement for a pick up over 4k to tow anything over 6K has been around for decades.

[discovery4us]

94-D2 wrote:
Double towing can only be done with a commercial class A with double/triple endorsement. Then, the combination can only be 65’ bumper to bumper.

It has been many years since I towed doubles in CA and I wouldn't be surprised if the codes have changed but at the time the local CHP DOT advised that it was legal without a commercial class A. They stated that "passenger vehicles" could not tow more than one item but a pickup was not a "passenger vehicle" based on class and weight. They were adamant that the 65' length would be enforced and that both items in tow needed proper lighting, brakes, safety chains and proper couplers.

Keep in mind at that time there was no talk of FW endorsements, non-commercial licenses and the like. I also posses a commercial class A so that may have played in my favor but no double endorsement. We successfully towed many miles through CA, OR, NV, AZ, NM, and TX with no issues.

[94-D2]

Admittedly, the majority of officers would not blink an eye. They may feel it is not right but would not take action without the confidence in their knowledge. 35400 and 35401 CVC are basic and PC to the stop and a nexus to the license issue. All of which add up to a bad vacation if your ducks are not in a row at the least, and could be tragic at the worst. At a minimum, I would possibly issue a correctable violation for the license and maybe a non mover for the length. In either case, it is an out of service for the license and would have to drop a trailer for the doubles.
??????? I would be remiss in my responsibilities if I ignored obscurity having full knowledge and expertise in the subject matter. This is just as important, if not more, than the driver of a particular combination knowing what he or she is doing and what is required.

[AirSupport]

94-D2 wrote:
Double towing can only be done with a commercial class A with double/triple endorsement. Then, the combination can only be 65’ bumper to bumper.

Good info. However the double trailer rig I mentioned that I saw today was absolutely longer than 65’ total. I’m sure that many cops don’t know the law, or they just overlook it for an RVer. Personally, I never even blinked an eye nor was a stickler for certain vehicle code obscurities.

[94-D2]

Double towing can only be done with a commercial class A with double/triple endorsement. Then, the combination can only be 65’ bumper to bumper.

[AirSupport]

Ed9824v wrote:
Is Class A what you need for double towing as well under 65 feet total?

Good question because the Cal DMV website quick-chart doesn’t say....

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/cdl_htm/lic_chart

I thought it was illegal to tow BEHIND a fiver in Cali but I saw one today on the 22fwy in Garbage Grove. It was towing a flatbed trailer with a sand rail on it. It was behind an older Grand Design trailer.

[Ed9824v]

Is Class A what you need for double towing as well under 65 feet total?

[94-D2]

Tank:

1 and 2 are incorrect. You CAN do traffic school if the violation was not in a class A vehicle (this was the case several years ago and since repealed) and the commercial .04% only applies while you are operating a class A vehicle. However, if you do get an 08% DUI in a regular non commercial, your commercial status will be effected. You CAN count on every LEO in CA to know that because that is the job and I’m sure any defense attorney and prosecutor would be enthusiastically happy to re-educated any officer that is unsure of such a critical investigation.

We (as a general rule) do not apply double standards to vehicle code violations in CA just because you are a class A operator. There are however more vehicle code violations that can be violated regarding the operation of commercial vehicle. Our discretion is the same whether or not to cite for any infraction, regardless of type of vehicle. Each case is subjective in nature and therefore mitigated by facts and circumstances surrounding the enforcement contact.

A non-commercial class A license is available in CA for those needing it. If your just pulling a 5th wheel over 15k or a TT over 10k, that is what you need.

Happy Campin’

[Dtank]

Edd505 wrote:
Community collage, take one quarter CDL class and they use the collage trucks to test. The commercial CDL will cover most anything you want unless you want tanker, double, hazmat, bus endorsements. I was able to get the CDL with 3 of the endorsement trough the collage. Got really dumb then and bought an 18 wheeler because I had the license. 750K miles later I don't have an issue taking a 35ft 5W any where.

What "works" - or is "the way to go" in NM (or elsewhere), is most definitely NOT happening in California - back to the original post/topic...:S

Community Colleges do *NOT* have "college trucks", nor do they have CDL classes. Might be one "somewhere" in the state, but very doubtful.

Several reasons NOT to have a *Commercial* Driver's License in CA:

1. Should you receive a traffic citation, you are not allowed to attend traffic school - as an alternate to a fine and points against your license. (Doesn't matter if you are not driving commercially when cited).

2. Although it *should* only apply if you are driving commercially, the blood alcohol level is half that of a std DL. Can you count on the LEO knowing that?

3. Routine stops. An infraction that may only result in a warning,
could result in a citation - as the LEO expects you to be a "professional driver" - and should be held to a higher standard.

4. Of course, you will also need a doctor's certificate every two years. Maybe you can get a free exam - maybe not. Just another expense.

For those reasons, some of us "gave up" our CDLs when they were no longer necessary for work related driving (CA has a separate Firefighter license now - at one time you needed a "regular" CDL for various apparatus).

BTW - South Dakota may have a better plan for 5th wheel towing?!
You're good to go with a standard Driver's License. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean you are "competent" to tow whatever it is you want to tow...:h

IMO - EVERY state should have a Non-Commercial classification! Many (besides CA) already do. Makes the roads safer for everyone!!

😉

[94-D2]

toedtoes wrote:

94-D2 wrote:
Non commercial class A in ca only allows an rv greater than 10,000 lbs. that’s it. As a note: a horse trailer with rv quarters is not an rv. It is a horse trailer and horses are not stock. They are pets. There for if over 10,000 lbs, a commercial class A is required. I bring this up because there is always an argument where horses are concerned.

I think you meant horses are stock. They are not pets. Therefore the horse trailer is commercial.

No, I do mean they are pets and are not stock. This comes full circle in relation to the 5th wheel endorsement because there is an assumption that the horse trailer with living quarters is an RV, or can be covered by the stock trailer exemption. So, a horse trailer is not qualified under stock trailer because the horse is considered a pet and not stock for human consumption, unless augmenting a stock operation and most horse trailers are goose neck and not 5th wheel connections.

These issues are related to pulling a 5th wheel RV because of the confusion between the non commercial class A, And 5th wheel restriction on a class C.

Clear as mud? Good.