Need to get shot

[4x4ord]

So I towed the trailer into the mountains last weekend with the bike on the lift. The wind was blowing and the trailer towed terrible. Especially going down hill the trailer would push the truck around making for a very stressful drive. Anyway we got out there and it was really nice to have the bike along. My intentions were to have my wife tow the trailer home and I was going to ride the bike to avoid another stressful drive going back home, but .... I wore the back tire off the bike and decided I would feel more comfortable driving an unstable truck back then riding a motorcycle back with a tire that looked like it could pop any second.

Well the drive back was very nice. Little wind and the truck felt much more stable. I got thinking about why there was such a profound difference between the way the 5ver towed going out vs coming back. I think the wind was responsible for some of the unstableness but what may have made the biggest difference is the fact that we used about 40 gallons of water over the weekend. That 40 gallons was moved as we used it from the fresh tank to the black and grey tanks. The fresh tank is over the front trailer axle the black and grey water is stored about 4 feet ahead of the fresh water. I think moving that 40 gallons forward 4 feet shifted about 100 lbs from the trailer axles to the trailer pin.

So in the future i would like to have a few sacks of shot positioned in the bedroom or poured into the kingpin hitch on the trailer to add some ballast to the pin weight.

I weighed the truck and trailer on the way home:

front truck axle .......4960 lbs
rear truck axle ........5440 lbs
trailer axles ..........14440 lbs

Tare weight of truck rear axle is 3480 lbs.

Any ideas on where to get a cheap couple hundred pounds of shot.

[bpounds]

Me Again wrote:
Adding more weight seems a bit backwards to me. If the trailer tows fine without the MC on the back, then you know it is out of balance. Move the fulcrum(aka axles) and be done with it. Enjoy the rest to the summer. Front over hang/pin box connection may not like the additional weight.

Chris

I've never done it, obviously, but moving axles 20" or whatever, seems not so simple. What do you do with the wheel wells? Cutting and moving spring hangers is one thing, bodywork and paint is another. Clearing slide hardware, utility lines, hydraulic brake lines for his disk brakes...

[Me_Again]

Adding more weight seems a bit backwards to me. Front over hang/pin box connection may not like the additional weight.

If the trailer tows fine without the MC on the back, then you know it is out of balance. Move the fulcrum(aka axles) and be done with it. Enjoy the rest to the summer.

Chris

[bpounds]

Definitely test it with portable containers. Like I said, I think you will need less than one might think to improve handling a lot. Maybe start with a couple buckets, test, add as needed.

Did you think a question about where to buy shot would turn into a 3 pager?

[4x4ord]

So the options are:
1. Put a few pails of balast in the bedroom.

2. Install a 60 gallon fresh water tank between the frame rails at the front of the trailer.

3. Move the tandem axles back 20 inches.

4. Add a third axle behind the tandems.


Right now im thinking I like the idea of placing 5 properly sealed 5 gallon pails of water or 5 sacks of shot up in the bedroom closet.

I think I should see how that works for the rest of the season then. this winter make a decision on other options.

[Me_Again]

So, move the axles back. A good axle/welding shop should be able to help you with how much you need to move them, and if you can.

We have has a number of Citation 5th wheels in our park, and yes they are very well made and regarded. Chris

[4x4ord]

Citation rates the axles at 7000 lbs. However they are Dexter axles equipped with Dexter disc brakes. In the documents supplied with the trailer is a Dexter brochure. The lightest, disc brake equipped, axle listed in that brochure is an 8000 lb axle. The 7000 lb axle has drum brakes. I kind of think Dexter is rating these axles at 8000 lbs. Even if they are 7000 lb axles.... 7200 vs 7000 is only slightly over the rated capacity.

As far as the frame strength is concerned: this trailer has an exstemely deep frame rail. About 18" deep over the axles and tapering off a little as you move back. I don't think an extra 500 lbs per rail is a big deal.

[rbcamping]

If he's 440 lbs over now and he puts 600 lbs on the front, he'll be even higher on the axle, not less. Most axles are built with a 20-30 % margin for weight load, not counting road load, which means he already into a grey area. Axles, spings, bearings, wheels may be stressed, tires are the easy part.

[bpounds]

rbcamping wrote:
I've asked this twice, so this is the third time, What size axles are on your trailer?
If they are 7000 lb, then most of the suggestions are out.

Why? I don't think a couple hundred pounds up front is out of the question at all.

He may be 400# over his axle rating, or 200# per axle. If he adds 200# up front, most of it will be on his hitch, which is his goal, but even if it were all on his axles, is an extra 100# per axle going to matter? Or 200#?

I think he is way past the point of wondering if the lift was a good idea. Gotta deal with it now.

[rbcamping]

I've asked this twice, so this is the third time, What size axles are on your trailer?
If they are 7000 lb, then most of the suggestions are out.

[bpounds]

You can also check with local tire dealers and ask about their used wheel weights. I used to pick them up for free, but I'm sure those days or long past.

You probably don't need as much as you might think to solve the issue. It won't be 800# to correct the issue of an 800# bike.

I like the water tank idea. Just make sure the base will support it.

[fj12ryder]

turbojimmy wrote:

BurbMan wrote:
I would have a concern about bending the frame on the 5er with 800 lbs hanging off the back like that.

He's over 1,000 lbs. including the lift he built.I respect the ingenuity but it doesn't seem like an ideal setup.

That's pretty much the way I feel about it.

[fj12ryder]

Farmboy666 wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

Farmboy666 wrote:
Well nobody else asked so I will. You had a stressful drive up and trailer handled badly so you are riding the bike back and throw it in your wifes lap to drive the poorly handling trailer back.

Actually he changed his mind, and drove the truck and trailer back himself with the bike on the back.

Yea I know what he did but that's after he road the bike to much. Not his first plan.

Okay, but I think his idea was that with 800+ lbs. off the back of the trailer it would handle much better and not be a problem.

[4x4ord]

laknox wrote:

attuco wrote:
I ran into a similar situation with a 500 pound motorcycle on a Arctic Fox 24-5.
I mounted a truck sidebox on the pinbox and added 4, 6 volt batteries. They were cheaper than lead.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! 🙂

Actually, lead is so expensive right now that the organization that runs the last fully operational WWII Liberty Ship, the USS O'Brien, took the lead ballast out a number of years ago, and replaced it with concrete. They used the profits for their last mandated dry dock and still had money left over.

Shoot, just head down to any scrap yard and pick up however many old batteries you want, drain and flush them out, and you've got all the ballast you could wish for, though I've never heard of anyone =purposely= adding weight to an RV.

Another option would be to travel with minimal fresh water, but full black and grey water, then dump as soon as you get to the campground...a$$-u-ming you're not boondocking.

Lyle

I've already got 4, 6 volt batteries mounted very close to the front of the trailer.
I am pondering the idea of mounting a second fresh water tank under the front storage compartment. I could transfer the water from this second tank to the factory tank once I arrive at my destination. 60 gallons of fresh water toward the front of the trailer would put about 400 lbs on the pin.

[laknox]

attuco wrote:
I ran into a similar situation with a 500 pound motorcycle on a Arctic Fox 24-5.
I mounted a truck sidebox on the pinbox and added 4, 6 volt batteries. They were cheaper than lead.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! 🙂

Actually, lead is so expensive right now that the organization that runs the last fully operational WWII Liberty Ship, the USS O'Brien, took the lead ballast out a number of years ago, and replaced it with concrete. They used the profits for their last mandated dry dock and still had money left over.

Shoot, just head down to any scrap yard and pick up however many old batteries you want, drain and flush them out, and you've got all the ballast you could wish for, though I've never heard of anyone =purposely= adding weight to an RV.

Another option would be to travel with minimal fresh water, but full black and grey water, then dump as soon as you get to the campground...a$$-u-ming you're not boondocking.

Lyle

[Tzman4]

You hang 1000# off the back of that trailer, what did you expect would happen?