School me on 5th wheel hitches please

[exit_295]

Hi all. We have been travel trailer campers for several years and have worked ourselves up to our current trailer which is a triple slide, 36ft long very comfortable mobile suite. However, we have decided that the time has come to downsize a bit because the kids have their own rig now and we are too long to get into some of the campgrounds that they can.

When looking for shorter trailers, we discovered that 5th wheels were roomier and some of the shorter ones look like they would suit us. We haven't settled on one to buy yet but while looking, a salesman wanted to make a deal on selling us a hitch with the trailer which by the way was an adapter that converted the attachment on the trailer into a ball mount which then would drop onto a ball mounted on a frame in the bed of the truck. The whole thing just didn't look right to me. Being new to 5th wheels, I have no idea on what features to look for or brands/types. It does seem that units we have looked at all have a swivel feature that allows the trailer to be used with short box PU's which I have. Does that mean that feature is better then a slider hitch?

I would appreciate learning about different types of hitches and what features to consider when buying one. I will be towing with an F250 short bed with a V-10. Thanks in advance.

[john_bet]

dlleno wrote:
The other thing I learned is that the potential chucking distance of a 40' versus a 30' trailer is not significant. The difference is about a quarter of one percent (the 30 foot trailer chucks a quarter of a percent further in terms of distance, for the same vertical articulation). So my interpretation is that short trailers bounce more and with a higher amplitude due to reduced moment of inirtia about the axle. Conversely, the longer trailer will have moderated lower amplitude chucking, not because of hitch geometry but because it doesn't rotate as easily about its own axle and therefore tends not to squat the TV as much, for the same bump in the road.

Those who have actually towed both short and long please chime in. This is just theory...

I am not an engineer so can't address your question, but I think you need to look into the Reese Goosebox pin box for your 5th. As some research go to Youtube and look up Big truck Big RV. He has used 3 different hitches on his 5th and F-450 Ford.

[cummins2014]

laknox wrote:
FWIW, I used an inexpensive ($100 on sale and sold the included engine stand for $50) engine hoist to lift my Companion out of the bed of my truck and set it on a $10 Harbor Freight furniture dolly. Others have used a manual block and tackle from a rafter to a nice electric winch and set it down on a dolly or roll-around table. The AUH wasn't around when I got my Companion so it wasn't a consideration. Since I needed the GN hitch as well, it was a natural, for me, to get the whole enchilada. Now that I've got a gym-rat of a son-in-law, it's even easier to take my Companion out. Costs me a half a six-pack; I get the other half for "supervising". :B

Lyle

I don't think there is a lot of mystery getting a hitch out of truck at home, I installed a Harbor freight electric hoist to remove mine . If that is the only time I needed to install or remove a heavy hitch then its a non issue, but I need a empty bed when traveling ,and fishing. The Andersen fits the bill, and a very nice hitch to tow with.

Its unfortunate that we have the naysayers here , that seem to try ,and persuade against the Andersen, although never owning one.

[laknox]

FWIW, I used an inexpensive ($100 on sale and sold the included engine stand for $50) engine hoist to lift my Companion out of the bed of my truck and set it on a $10 Harbor Freight furniture dolly. Others have used a manual block and tackle from a rafter to a nice electric winch and set it down on a dolly or roll-around table. The AUH wasn't around when I got my Companion so it wasn't a consideration. Since I needed the GN hitch as well, it was a natural, for me, to get the whole enchilada. Now that I've got a gym-rat of a son-in-law, it's even easier to take my Companion out. Costs me a half a six-pack; I get the other half for "supervising". :B

Lyle

[cummins2014]

Lazy D wrote:

cummins2014 wrote:

Lazy D wrote:
I was gonna start a new post but found this one searching for answers. If I don’t get what I’m looking for I’ll post up a new question. Since we’re talking about hitches, I’m interested in anyone’s experience with both the B&W companion, and the Andersen Ultimate fifth wheel hitch.
I’ve only used the B&W. I love everything about it except the weight. It a PITA to get in and out and storage isn’t all that easy. My buddy just moved up to a 5er and he got the Andersen. 40# vs 200# on mine. At 40# my wife could remove it and I could hand it from a hook on the wall.
So pros and cons from those who have had both is what I’m asking for.
Thanks in advance.
D

IMO you answered your own question, if its weight of a hitch ,the Andersen is the answer.

I switched from a heavy sliding hitch to the steel rail mount Andersen , will never go back to a conventional hitch .

Weight really isn’t an issue with my truck. But if I could get the same performance with a lighter setup it’s all bonus. Will the Andersen pull as good as the a B&W is the question I have.

I didn't mean the weight the truck is carrying, I meant the ease of removing the Andersen, because of the lightweight.

Will the Andersen pull as good as a B&W. Thats a tough question, what does pull as good as a B&W mean, I had no chucking with my previous hitch, nor do I have any with this Andersen. My previous hitch was flawless as far as towing went, a bit of noise because it was a slider, it was easy to hitch ,and unhitch, no complaints other then I wanted a hitch that was easy to remove away from home ,to transport my inflatable pontoon boat back ,and forth from the lakes I fish here in Montana.

My previous hitch had to be either taken apart, ,and depending on how much I tore it apart, I would need help to remove if all I did was remove the head. The Andersen solved that issue, and it tows just as good as my old slider. For me no going back to a conventional hitch.

We have some members here that have a tendency to bash products they do not own, if you ignore that ,and listen to the owners of the Andersen, then you will get a pretty good idea of how they perform.

I can guarantee you can't drop a fifth wheel on the bed of a truck with the Andersen when you are connected, but you can with a convention hitch. ,and that INCLUDES the B&W.

[Lazy_D]

cummins2014 wrote:

Lazy D wrote:
I was gonna start a new post but found this one searching for answers. If I don’t get what I’m looking for I’ll post up a new question. Since we’re talking about hitches, I’m interested in anyone’s experience with both the B&W companion, and the Andersen Ultimate fifth wheel hitch.
I’ve only used the B&W. I love everything about it except the weight. It a PITA to get in and out and storage isn’t all that easy. My buddy just moved up to a 5er and he got the Andersen. 40# vs 200# on mine. At 40# my wife could remove it and I could hand it from a hook on the wall.
So pros and cons from those who have had both is what I’m asking for.
Thanks in advance.
D

IMO you answered your own question, if its weight of a hitch ,the Andersen is the answer.

I switched from a heavy sliding hitch to the steel rail mount Andersen , will never go back to a conventional hitch .

Weight really isn’t an issue with my truck. But if I could get the same performance with a lighter setup it’s all bonus. Will the Andersen pull as good as the a B&W is the question I have.

[dlleno]

The other thing I learned is that the potential chucking distance of a 40' versus a 30' trailer is not significant. The difference is about a quarter of one percent (the 30 foot trailer chucks a quarter of a percent further in terms of distance, for the same vertical articulation). So my interpretation is that short trailers bounce more and with a higher amplitude due to reduced moment of inirtia about the axle. Conversely, the longer trailer will have moderated lower amplitude chucking, not because of hitch geometry but because it doesn't rotate as easily about its own axle and therefore tends not to squat the TV as much, for the same bump in the road.

Those who have actually towed both short and long please chime in. This is just theory...

[dlleno]

dlleno wrote:
Can someone tell me the distance between the center of your trailer axles and the king pin? I'm looking for the diagonal between wheel center and pin tip.

I'm also looking for an estimated vertical motion of the pin during normal use. Is this 6 inches? This would include tv suspension flex of course and (in the case of a ts) hitch deflection. I'd like to do some calculations to estimate the forward chucking motion of a, trailer under normal tow

OK I made some assumptions and found that mathematically I can account for around 1/2 inch of forward motion just due to downward articulation of a fifth wheel (at the pin) where the trailer axle is 24 feet from the hitch. So the trailer noses into a bump, squats the truck and any other vertical suspension components, and the trailer will also push the TV forward a half inch and then jerk it back at least that much or more. If the rebound is just as severe, you can count on a full inch of total peak to peak movement.

No wonder chucking is an issue with solid hitches. That was enlightening. Thank you durb for your analysis and diagrams sent via email!

[cummins2014]

Lazy D wrote:
I was gonna start a new post but found this one searching for answers. If I don’t get what I’m looking for I’ll post up a new question. Since we’re talking about hitches, I’m interested in anyone’s experience with both the B&W companion, and the Andersen Ultimate fifth wheel hitch.
I’ve only used the B&W. I love everything about it except the weight. It a PITA to get in and out and storage isn’t all that easy. My buddy just moved up to a 5er and he got the Andersen. 40# vs 200# on mine. At 40# my wife could remove it and I could hand it from a hook on the wall.
So pros and cons from those who have had both is what I’m asking for.
Thanks in advance.
D

IMO you answered your own question, if its weight of a hitch ,the Andersen is the answer.

I switched from a heavy sliding hitch to the steel rail mount Andersen , will never go back to a conventional hitch .

[Lazy_D]

I was gonna start a new post but found this one searching for answers. If I don’t get what I’m looking for I’ll post up a new question. Since we’re talking about hitches, I’m interested in anyone’s experience with both the B&W companion, and the Andersen Ultimate fifth wheel hitch.
I’ve only used the B&W. I love everything about it except the weight. It a PITA to get in and out and storage isn’t all that easy. My buddy just moved up to a 5er and he got the Andersen. 40# vs 200# on mine. At 40# my wife could remove it and I could hand it from a hook on the wall.
So pros and cons from those who have had both is what I’m asking for.
Thanks in advance.
D

[dlleno]

Can someone tell me the distance between the center of your trailer axles and the king pin? I'm looking for the diagonal between wheel center and pin tip.

I'm also looking for an estimated vertical motion of the pin during normal use. Is this 6 inches? This would include tv suspension flex of course and (in the case of a ts) hitch deflection. I'd like to do some calculations to estimate the forward chucking motion of a, trailer under normal tow

[dlleno]

Durb wrote:

dlleno wrote:

ReneeG wrote:
Well, not one of you mentioned the Hensley TrailerSaver hitches. We've had the BD3 model from the onset of getting our FW and wouldn't tow with anything else. It's an air ride hitch and easily removed. Costly? Yes, but for us well worth it.

As a prospective/hopeful new 5ver owner, this solution interests me, especially with today's factory puck hitch systems. the BD5 appears to match up to Ford and GMs puck system just as the Companion does. At the risk of thread drift I would like to know more about the hensley:

* does it eliminate the need for a mor ride or similar pinbox?

* is this one really the premiere and most effective solution for the problems it is meant to address?

*a BD5 that fits the RAM puck system would be nice...

Bouncing and chucking forces are created by the trailer. Some trailers are better or worse than others. As the trailer rotates around an axis when the tires sequentially go over a bump the pin will push down and forward at the same time, then raise and retract.

If you are looking at a long fifth wheel which will most likely have more bouncing forces than chucking forces a BD3 or BD5 would be the hitch of choice. These work particularly well combined with a MORryde pin box.

If you chose a shorter trailer then the amount of chucking forces will increase relative to bouncing forces due to a larger hitch angle. The TS3 would be the hitch of choice due to the high hinge design. As the trailer's pin pushes down and forward the hitch compresses and retracts dissipating both of the forces. With the BD3 and BD5 the chucking forces of the trailer are still pushing against the solid vertical stanchions.

The TS3 is an ingenious design and I am am a believer. My trailer went from terrible chucking with a Patriot to a very pleasurable tow. Another advantage of the TS3 is braking safety. As you stop the TS3 pushes down on the rear of the truck to further load the rear tires. If you get a rear hinged pin box with air bag it will serve to lift the rear and unload the rear tires during panic stopping. An air hitch will also protect your trailer's frame and welds in addition to the electronics in both your truck and trailer. Your back and bottom will also thank you. I can't figure why so many people are sold on solid joint hitches.

very helpful information!! I see that your carriage is in the region of 33 ft long, if my searches are correct, so this must be "short" in your explanation. I have heard more than one dealer explain that longer trailers tow smoother, but I didn't correlate this with the hitch angle as you describe. I was hoping to be 34 or 35 feet which is within about 5% of yours, so I suppose this would qualify as "short" as well. I'm not interested in 37 or 39+ foot coaches.

now you have me thinking seriously about the TS3. If only it would match up with the puck system or maybe they have puck system adapters that would be great. I'd like to leave the bed empty by hanging the hitch on the pinbox, for misc. utility hauling.


Also what I'm hearing you say is that with the TS3, the need for a mor-ryde pinbox isn't as necessary, so one could save that $$ to help fund the TS3 🙂

[dlleno]

ReneeG wrote:

dlleno wrote:

ReneeG wrote:
Well, not one of you mentioned the Hensley TrailerSaver hitches. We've had the BD3 model from the onset of getting our FW and wouldn't tow with anything else. It's an air ride hitch and easily removed. Costly? Yes, but for us well worth it.

As a prospective/hopeful new 5ver owner, this solution interests me, especially with today's factory puck hitch systems. the BD5 appears to match up to Ford and GMs puck system just as the Companion does. At the risk of thread drift I would like to know more about the hensley:

* does it eliminate the need for a mor ride or similar pinbox? We do not have an air pinbox and have an excellent ride.

* is this one really the premiere and most effective solution for the problems it is meant to address In my opinion it is. Call the company. Their support is outstanding and have a return policy if you are not satisfied.

*a BD5 that fits the RAM puck system would be nice...We have a BD3 - our FW is 14k fully loaded so the BD3 is more than adequate. The BD5 is heavier and I'm not sure it can be disassembled as easy as the BD3. Like the BD5, the BD3 has shocks, but it appears that the BD5 has them either on the front too or positioned differently. The BD3 works with the underbed puck system as that's we have.

Thanks ReneeG this is good info. I'm targeting a 16,000 lb GVW trailer for my design point, which could exceed the pin weight capacity of the BD3 if the trailer were fully loaded. without knowing where the tanks are located and how the trailer loads, I have to go by estimates and overengineer, which means that a 16,000 lb trailer could approach 4000 lbs on the pin (25%) when fully loaded. With Durb's comments on the TS3 I don't (as yet) see the point of the BD5, except the convenience of direct fit to the pucks without adapters.

All that aside your experience with your Bighorn 3055 is a good reference point for which I am grateful. I do like the ability to remove the BD3 without using the trailer itself as a hoist 🙂

[ReneeG]

We originally had a Hensley Arrow hitch and were able to trade that in for the BD3. I think it was around $1500 total. This was 8 years ago so, I can't remember exactly. TrailerSaver - the name says it all. Aaron helped us with both, really knows his stuff and super with customer service.

[2naEagle]

My 315RLTS North Point has the Morryde pin box. I had the B&W and just got a BD5 and absolutely love it. It's hard to describe just how good it really is.

[Wanderer26]

Dileno, price my friend price. Lot of us have too much money tied up in fiver plus tv to sink another million on hitch. Not an excuse, just sayen.