Trailer Brake Problems and Braking Performance

[Buck50HD]

Sorry, this is a long one. Finally got the 5th out for 2 trips after buying it late last fall. One was 600 miles round trip and the other was 240 round trip. When I started down our gravel road for the 1st trip, I tried a gain of 6, no lock-up. Then tried 8, then 10... progressively better but no lock, on gravel. At this point I'm committed and no turning back. On the way, I had the opportunity to perform my first panic stop for a deer. Truck brakes were cycling on ABS and although the trailer was not at full power, hauling it down from 60 to 20 was no problem and actually fairly impressive.

Next stop was a gas station after a long hill. Felt the brakes, only 3 were hot, 4th was ice cold. Nice feature on a brand new trailer. Looked it over a little at the campground but nothing obvious and I wasn't going to pull the wheel off. Later, at home, started adjusting the brakes and I lost count at probably 4 turns on the star on the cold brake. The others were also loose but not as bad. Figured this had to be the problem.

2nd trip started down the gravel, gain of 10, no lock, same performance. Checked the drums after a stop, same one was still cool. Made the full trip of 240 miles using the brakes several times and the one drum was still cool but not ice cold.

Pulled the drum off tonight and found a little oil/grease on the magnet surface and drum but not a lot. Cleaned with brake cleaner and reassembled. Pulled the break-away cable and it would drag when I rotated it forward but would still turn by hand. Jacked up one of the 3 that work and I could not rotate it, completely locked up. Ohmed out the entire system and got 1.1, which is acceptable, as far as I know.

So, question #1, is it possible that the brake/magnet still need to wear in more? I would think that even new parts could stop me from rotating the wheel at full power.

#2: Do you think it's the magnet, even though it ohms out ok?

Finally, my concern about performance. These axles are the 4400 lb lippert/axletek which have 3500lb spindles/10"brakes and 5200 lb tube (not happy about this). The fact that I can't even lock the 3 good tires on gravel makes me furious. The equivalent braking force is less than that of tires skidding on wet pavement. In addition, one is not working at all. Luckily, my truck is able to keep all 4 on ABS on dry pavement. So, what sort of braking potential do I have? Well, if all 4 worked, assuming the effective friction coefficient would be around 0.5 (that may be optimistic) and the truck can take full potential of the 0.8 that the harder E tires provide, I’m at 82.1% of what I could have if the trailer could be near lock on pavement. With only 3 working, I’m down to 74.6%. You may be thinking I should have bought a ¾ ton. Assuming a gas ¾ ton would be 500 lb heavier than my 6100 lb F150HD, it would provide less than 1% better performance, which translates to about 2’ better in a 200’ stopping distance. That’s not going to cut it. I need better trailer brakes. First step is to get all 4 working. Then, when I get time, these inadequate 10” brakes are out of here. There’s a lot of focus on trucks but we need more on trailer brakes. How many out there take them for granted. How many adjust them to lock only on gravel and not on dry pavement? The puny brakes are fine for the guy that doesn’t want to take the time to fine-tune but I want full power.

[Buck50HD]

Mission accomplished... it locks on gravel now and has noticeably better braking. The "bad" wheel also gets hot and locks on packed gravel but that's probably due to the thorough cleaning I did this time and not necessarily the wiring. Still won't lock on pavement so I'm not completely happy but this will do for now.

It's possible that after another 1000 miles and further seating they will get better.

[Buck50HD]

Another update...

Took the underbelly loose so I could check the wire and found it is 12ga, not 16 like I thought. They only had 18ga for drop and cross-wires.

Checked it with the truck idling and full gain, 9.1 volts at the rear main junction by the trailer axles. Better than with the breakaway but still not very good.

Next step was to optimize the trailer without re-running 10ga wire through the trailer. First, I replaced all the 18ga drops and axle cross-wires with some good quality, 19 strand 16ga speaker wire I had with really thick, flexible insulation. Soldered all connections, including the ground and power in the pin box junction box. Finally, the best change I made was to add a ground wire directly to the frame near the axles. This alone basically eliminates the resistance of a 30' piece of the 12 ga wire, and it shows.

Final measurement was 10.0 volts at the rear axle, so almost a full volt. Since the 16 ga drop and cross-wires would actually increase current and decrease the voltage, the current probably increased more than 10%. Unfortunately, I only measured current after the changes and was 3.6A in the worst case magnet(rear axle, opposite the 12ga main line). Total resistance of the system also changed from 1.2 to 1.0 ohm. This is with a $15 multimeter so the accuracy is questionable.

Also measured reistance of a few magnets and they showed 2.9-3.0 ohm. Measuring across 2 in parallel on one axle showed 1.6 ohm which works out to 3.2 ohm/magnet. So, right at the Lippert spec of 3.2, or very near. To add to the mix, the magnet with 3.6A showed 9.9V, which would indicate a resistance of 2.75ohm. Somewhere there is measurement error so if I ever get the Fluke meter I'd like, I will have to verify.

Also measured the voltage at the pin box junction, 11.65 volts, so there is already quite a bit of loss by the time it gets to the front of the 5th. Voltage on my scangaugeII while idling showed 14.3 so there is a 2.65V drop between the front of the truck, through the controller, back to the bumper, through the harness for the bed plug and through the 7-pin pigtail on the trailer. I tried plugging right into the bumper 7-pin and gained 0.25V but I don't want to have my wire draped over the tailgate.

Cleaned the brake shoes on the bad wheel with solvent again and reassembled. Magnet adheres to a steel plate with authority. Wear surface looks like it not yet worn completely flat so may need some more time to seat. It's hooked up and ready to head out tomorrow for another 3hr trip. I'd be happy if it will at least lock on gravel after all this. Assuming a proportional relationship between electromagnet force and braking power, it should work out to around 10% gain on the trailer axles.

[sk734]

When I did my rewire I tied into the main feed from the hitch (12GA) and used home run wiring with 14GA to the wheels and then tied the 14 GA into the magnet wires. Seperate clean grounds installed at each brake (other side of magnet wire)-used 14GA. My amps nearly doubled from 2.6 to 3 before rewire to 4.5 to 5.5 after rewire(all readings at idle) I also tucked all wires up under the belly panel where it is dry-wires I removed from inside the axles were wet. I have not had a chance to take it out on the road yet. I would get rid of the light weight wire you have. I did not want to nick the wires or remove hubs(since i used heat shrink connectors) to check voltage-I am sure it is fine with the jump in amps-good luck!

[Buck50HD]

Got some time to do more checking. Looks like there is only 16 ga wire going from pin box to axles. Then there are short sections of 18 ga actually coming through the underbody and feeding each axle, as well as 18ga crossing through the axle to the opposite side. This seems really light to me.

Also, checked voltage at the bad brake(first splice) and it's 8.6 using the break-away switch (no truck). Battery was at 12.6 no load and 12.3 while the brakes were full power. Also checked it with a charger connected... 9.3 at the wheel and 13.0 at the battery. So, a solid 3.7V drop at the brake with the shortest run! I don't have a current clamp and I didn't want to cut wires and splice quite yet. I also checked the voltage at the rear axle splice and it was the same.

Anybody else ever check voltage at the wheel with the break-away switch? If you have battery voltage at the same time, that would be good info.

[SuperDutyMan]

I know my integrated Ford controller is so smooth you think they aren't working correctly,I can lock mine up manually but never with the trucks brakes,even set on 10,and other Ford guys say the same,until tonight,on the way to the CG this afternoon a light in town changed quick and my view was blocked,and I got on them as hard as I've ever had to in 3 yrs. with this 5ver and she stopped right now! I looked back in my mirror to see if anyone was behind me and I left 20' of tire marks from the trailer....backed the controller down to 9,I've learned the harder you get on the brakes the better the trailer brakes work,but on easy slower braking you never feel the jerking even on 10,it just takes a little getting used to compared to the old controllers I had for years...

[MFL]

I bought a new FW last August. The brakes seemed to work well with my controller. I have about 2000 miles on the new trailer brakes, so I figured they may need adjusting after my first trip this year.

I ordered a new Super Duty the end of Feb. I have only had the new truck about 2 weeks, but did a short pull, to set the gain, and also check the bed rail clearace (new truck & new B&W hitch).

The book said set the gain at 6.0, as a starting point. The brakes locked hard. I set to 5.0, and still locked, but not hard. I set to 4.5, and was just right. I don't think I'll even bother checking trailer brake adjustment.

I think you should have a good trailer service shop check out the brakes on your new trailer.

BTW, I did my testing on concrete.

Jerry

[John_Bridge]

Another vote for checking the voltage at each wheel. 🙂

[John_Bridge]

Here's another vote for checking the voltage to each wheel. You should have around 12 volts when the peddle is applied. I nicked the wires and then seal them in silicone to keep from having to remove each wheel. Checking voltage is the first thing you should do. 🙂

[ScottG]

I would pull the brake drum off the the one that had the grease on the magnet and clean that brake assembly thoroughly with brake cleaner. Contrary to popular belief, it's easy to clean grease and oil for brake pads. Those that work on them everyday and have actually done this cleaning know what I'm talking about. If you clean them yourself it will be obvious when they are clean.

[goducks10]

I don't have an answer for your problem, but will share my experience with you. I had a 2010 F150 and pulled a Heartland TT. Same exact axles as your Cougar. I was also displeased with the axles. As for the braking issue. Our F150 worked flawless with the Heartland. And I could lock up the brakes on the TT.

On to the next part. Upgraded trucks. 12 Ram 2500 CTD . Same TT. The Ram TBC wouldn't even come close to locking up the TT's brakes. Faulty TBC. Replaced with just 1,000 miles on the truck. Still wouldn't lock up the TT's brakes but did work better. I also adjusted the TT's brakes during the Ram TBC fiasco. It wasn't anything to do with the TT's brakes, just an inefficient TBC.

On to the next part. Traded the TT in on a 13 Fox Mountain 5'er. Now the braking problem is the exact opposite. Brakes really grab when slowing. I have to turn the gain down to 2 in town and back up to 5.5 on the road. Backing up is worse. The TBC won't let go of the 5'ers brakes and they sick for an extra second or two. Really annoying.

My point to all of this rambling is maybe your TBC isn't working properly. You should be able to lock up those brakes based on my experience with the same axles and a similar weighted trailer. I always thought the Ford TBC was the smoothest TBC I had used. And prior to that It was a P2.


Just read your last post. Same exact scenario as mine. Sounds like maybe we both have brake issues and not TBC probs.

[Buck50HD]

Fulltimer50 wrote:
Trailer brakes aside, if you do some research you may find that Ford integrated brake controllers are not known to be the best you can get when compared to add on units.
Generally there is no braking when standing still, and they will not lock up. (unless you do it by hand)

It has nothing to do with the controller or main 7-pin connection. Everything is brand new, no corrosion. Our TT from last year had 12" brakes and was 7500 lb and would lock easily at a gain of 6 with this truck. Plus, while testing by hand, I used the break-away switch so the truck wasn't even involved.

Also, to others questioning grease contamination. There was a slight film, nothing substantial.

[Pauljdav]

I have the Dexter 4400# axle with 10" brakes and I can lock them up anytime I want.
The trailer is the 30RKS Cougar 8200 GVWR if that helps.

Given what you stated about the adjustment of the brakes I would make sure the voltage and amps were correct for each wheel. If that checks out I would pull the drums and do a visual inspection of each to see what is happening.

For your cold one I would suspect grease on the shoes since you had it on the face of the drum as well. very little really affects the braking.

Paul

[Fulltimer50]

Trailer brakes aside, if you do some research you may find that Ford integrated brake controllers are not known to be the best you can get when compared to add on units.
Generally there is no braking when standing still, and they will not lock up. (unless you do it by hand)

[Albertr]

I bought a new 5th wheel in Tucson Az. On the way to the campground about 50 miles away I realized the brakes were not working properly. I parked for a couple of months and made an appointment to get the brakes worked on at Freedom RV on the way home to Canada. They worked on it for 5 hours. I tech...2 techs and finally after calls to Keystone they decided to replace a magnet although the magnet tested OK. This replacement allowed them to get paid by the manufacturer for 'warranty' work.I drove home. The brakes were not working properly. I crawled underneath it in the driveway and noticed one of the wires to the Right rear brake was hanging down and had never been connected. Wire was not stripped. Connector was not crimped. After all their working and testing at Freedom RV the unconnected brake wire was not detected.