American Eagle, Country Coach, Newmar

[piku]

Hi all, I was hoping to get some advice. We currently have a 1998 Winnebago Adventurer 32ft with no slides and are a family of 3 living in it. We've just recently completed a 2 month adventure across the country and back and have decided we kind of like living in a motorhome, trailer or something of the sort. We have some ideas about snowbirding. I've always been enamored with Wanderlodges but as time has passed I've come to realize I can't afford one, especially not one with a slide. Then I found out how heavy the steel coaches are and decided maybe it's not right for me.

Firstly, I don't hate our coach. The Adventurer is a good coach as far as gassers of the time period go, but we have delamination damage from leaks from previous owners and various fixtures and furnishings breaking constantly to the point of being annoying. All possible chassis issues, we've had from fuel pumps to broken head. I've kept up with everything but it's just getting a little tiring chasing the issues. Just yesterday the entry door handle broke in half. The thing I really can't handle anymore is the ride, the heat, the noise. I want a good ride and I hear the Spartan Mountain master chassis is smooth as glass because of the air suspension. I haven't driven one yet. Can someone comment on how it compares to an F53 chassis of the era?

My budget is around $70K. I'd like to find a coach that is around $75K and talk it down to $65K so I can get out for around $70K with tax. I am looking for a diesel pusher and garage kept/mint condition as well as quality and features are far more important to me than age or mileage. I've narrowed down my choices to Foretravel U320, American Eagle and Dream (1999-2002 range for these) and Newmar coaches.

Firstly, I think the American dream/eagle coaches look the best both exterior and interior. I'd love the light sand color sofas with a darker colored cabinet. I love the white exterior and light graphics. I saw a Foretravel U320 I loved but I really think I am stuck on wanting 2 slides. I like the idea of the pantograph doors and generator on a slide so I'd love to find an eagle but a dream works fine if it's right. I really like the overhead tv and console configuration of the 2001+ so I really think I have to stick with that. I've looked at the newmars and I really think the styling is all around god awful. I really don't know what people are thinking with green and purple furniture and other things I find configured. But still I feel like I should consider it. I don't prefer the looks of country coach (like the higher end looking Affinity model?) but it does look good enough that if it was substantially better I would hunt for that. Any comments? Any coaches I am missing?

Then I found out the 02 eagle has the 400HP ISL for around $15K more. Is the 400HP a screamer compared to the 350? Is it worthwhile to spend the money for it? I'm concerned with having enough power that I don't slow down to the point of being a danger to others. That is the case now. I don't have to beat on my rig now, but it gets slow and I am full throttle up any real grades. The general idea is to find something overpowered so it lives a low stress life and maybe will last longer.

I was wondering if people could comment on the delamination issues. One of the dreams I saw was delaminating between the rear slide on the driver side and the rear cap. The dealer claimed there were no leaks. It was a shame to walk away because the coach was priced right and ran great. Someone claimed the newmars can't delaminate but then I saw that the checking issue they have could turn structural. Does the checking issue date all the way back to 2001-2002 ish or is that a later problem?

Are the air conditioners on these models supposed to have filters at the opening? They do in our winnebago but didn't in the one we saw.

What issues should I look for? I know about the ball joints, I know to look for leaks. I know the fiberglass roofs of 2000+ are better, but what am I missing. I don't want to miss anything with this big of a purchase. How should I go about evaluating the engine and generator. Any issues to look for or any good prepurchase inspections that are nationwide that I could take the coach to?

We took a route which I thought was pretty gentle from Yellowstone to Rawlins, WY which inadvertently left us up a rather steep incline. I foolishly decided not to disconnect our toad and we took the incline at 15mph, slow enough that the torque converter even unlocked. No damage, fluid isn't burnt but I decided I had enough and I want a coach with some power.

I'm after 8mpg towing 5000 pounds and carrying about 2000 pounds of people and gear. Can I achieve this in one of these coaches at 60mph.. 65? 70? My impression that is that I will see 1100 miles out of a tank with the generator running at half load with the ISC 350. Is this the case?

On the dream we looked at the slide wouldn't go in the whole way. Is there an issue with the slides or powergear mechanisms on these?

The cruise control of my coach drives me nuts. On all the little dips when the speed drops a mph or two the cruise control promptly slams the throttle to the floor causing it to scream into 3rd gear unnecessarily. If it just gave 60% throttle or so and allowed some slowdown it would be less dramatic and the whole trip would be more relaxing. How does the cruise and gear selection with teh allison work? Do you find you can set cruise even towing and it deals with the smaller grades without any drama? I wouldn't mind a downshift but I don't want to go full throttle unnecessarily for fun. Save that for the real grades. Can I lock the allison into 5th or 6th or program the cruise control maximum throttle or things like that?

And speaking of grades what can you do on a standardish 6% grade? Mine will run in 3rd for a little but I end up in 2nd gear after a mile or two and down to around 30mph. Do the DP's tend to run like this as well? I would suspect not as I was passed by several going at least 55mph up the grade.

What about reliability? How many people actually get the bullyhooed diesel reliability? I hear so often about 90K mile and 110K mile rebuilds of cummins engines. Sounds like a travesty on a motor that expensive. We have 1400 hours on our gas generator. How many can you get on a diesel generator that is used often?

Any and all suggestions are welcome. I just want to know what kind of wrinkles I will be getting into. Obviously I am used to a nightmare owning a 1998 gas coach. Will the nightmare continue or are these coaches pretty reliable and do the furnishings hold up under careful care?

[piku]

We saw the Foretravel U320 today. The wife wasn't impressed. I definitely was but for the money I saw perhaps too many problems. The aquahot wasn't a radiant in floor system. The powertech gen is louder than the onan 7500 even without any load at all (it was no louder running 3 a/cs though), one of the A/C's was buzzing and I detected a bunch of previous cleaned up leak damage. The a/cs are placed such that the front end doesn't get cool (as easily as it should). The sofas chairs and seats were unbelievably comfortable, absolutely perfect. Cabinetry was top notch but no obvious place to put our dishwasher. No washer dryer unit included. I know not everyone wants these and they are small but we want one. Interior lighting and controls were amazing but the control panels didn't seem to be functioning. Bin storage was way larger than I needed. The lack of slides gave it the overall tight feeling we are trying to get away from. The dealer was 100% rigid on price too since it's a consignment unit they told me they had to fight the owner to get it where it's at because he just spent $40K on renovations in 05. Power to weight seemed good, Cummins ISM 450HP with 34K unloaded weight. With the size of water and fuel I could dry camp for close to a month.

Clearly super super high quality but I'm not sure I'm convinced to go for it over the eagle, especially when I can identify future issues right off the bat.

The dealer sure paid a lot of attention to me.

[ferndaleflyer]

2 things I see here----you have a Bounder which is a entry level unit at best and you tow a race car with it. I to tow a race car and tore a cheap gas class A to pieces doing it. The DP I have now is a top of the line when new Winnebago Luxor and I tow a BIG Heavy trailer with it almost every weekend.....You get used to things like basement heat pump, washer/dryer, automatic leveling, back up camera w/the voice deal, basement entertainment w/refrigerator, lights and slide outs in the basement, automatic step cover, outside shower, built in coffee maker, corien counter tops, etc.

[Mr_Mark1]

Like a previous poster said, look at Monaco's and their sister Holiday Rambler. They can be high end at a very reasonable price.

We have the 10 air bag Roadmaster chassis and it's rough riding. But, I do keep the max air as I think it makes the tires last longer (120 in the front, 110 on the drive and tags). I too want to move up the ladder and realize that there is a butt for every seat. I'm looking to have a new Prevost bus built and hopefully there is someone who is looking for an extremely well maintained '08 Dynasty for the $200,000 range (new tires and AGM Batteries).

If I decide to build a new bus, it will take 6-9 months... so my coach will be worth $100,000 by then! LOL!

MM.

[RayChez]

bsinmich wrote:
Keeping a MH inside does make a big difference. Mine is stored inside all the time and it shows. The tires do not have any sidewall cracking, the paint always washes to like new, and when I get it out it as clean as when I put it in the barn. There is a big disadvantage if you have a solar panel on the roof. It does nothing in the dark.

LOL! IF you have a good paint job, you do not need to store your motorhome inside a barn or garage. I have had mine outside for the last ten years and the paint looks like new. And I live in the high desert of southern California where we get plenty of sun.

[piku]

I tow a race car to the track several times a year otherwise I would be looking at 5th wheels for sure.

[tomman58]

IMHO and no more than that, if you cannot afford to do the Class A then look to a TT or a 5er. I have has TT's for years and even though I can have a Class A anything, I still like our TT. I have never seen a Class A that I would trade off my TT and TV for. I find that they are really over rated and the cost of upkeep and insurance is plain stupid. I guess I've always balanced cost vs return and a class A just doesn't get it..
Sorry but I have a great TV and a TT with a king sized bed what more can I want.

[bsinmich]

Keeping a MH inside does make a big difference. Mine is stored inside all the time and it shows. The tires do not have any sidewall cracking, the paint always washes to like new, and when I get it out it as clean as when I put it in the barn. There is a big disadvantage if you have a solar panel on the roof. It does nothing in the dark.

[piku]

The operating theory is that things won't break as much on a higher end coach. Because maybe it is garage kept, because maybe the previous owner loved it and kept up with it. Variety of reasons. My coach lived outdoors all its life and the previous owner didn't keep up with maintenance, sealants, etc and I bought a mess for a good price. When I bought it the awning was torn, roof still leaking, and had various other mechanical problems that I systematically hunted down and fixed.

I would feel better about doing the repairs on a coach that was worth a little more, not just $ wise but to me. I don't have the emotional investment in this coach because I know I want something different. I realize an 01 or 02 american dream is quite similar to buying my coach all over again but my hope is that the chassis will be far more reliable, as will the generator. The entry door in the dream looks better, probably the knob won't fall off. The other doors like bathroom door and other stuff feels far better constructed. I don't think this is just a theory, all of the ones I looked at are in *substantially* better overall condition than mine despite similar age and miles. Mine is very similar to the average bounder of the same year. Just starting to show some age. There are a few things that are the same across all the coaches - light switches, thermostats, a/c and furnace but i have no problems with those things on my coach. The things I've had a problem with - almost all of them - are all different or higher quality on an american dream pusher.

So yeah, it's not that I'm afraid to chase the problems, it's that I want to chase problems in something that I can see myself in for 5+ years.

[bsinmich]

The confusing part of your of your post is that you are wanting to get away from the problems of having an older coach and you are still looking at the same age coaches. Most of the items on the coaches are very similar. Door locks only have a couple different manufacturers, all of the other applicances and fixtures are in that same category. You should move up a few more years if you want to get away from parts wearing out or breaking. We just got back from 3000 miles and we have found that when going up hills I just kick the cruise off and do it by foot. I don't like the high RPMs and can avoid it most times by just doing it myself. I don't want the higher costs of a DP so I love my gasser and am very happy with the Workhorse combo.

[cwdavis]

A word of caution on Country Coach -- the older models, like our 1995 Intrigue, white areas on the outside surfaces are not painted, but have a clear coat applied directly to the gel coat. At the time, that was thought to be a safe practice, but time has shown these areas to be prone to peeling. Hence, if you look at CCs, make sure the models have full body paint.

[FormerBoater]

American Eagles had fiberglass roofs in 1998. The difference between the pre-2001 Eagles and Dreams are as follows.

-Eagles have fiberglass roofs, Dreams were fiberglass in 99.

-Eagles have the genny on a slide-out, makes it very easy to service.

-Eagles have the pantograph cargo doors.

-Eagles have a 25HP higher rated engine than the Dreams

-Eagles are more apt to have upgrades, (real leather furniture, slide-out trays in the storage bays, larger inverter etc).

You can get 2 slides in the Eagle starting in 99, I think the same likely applies to the Dreams.

I am a big fan of late 90's thru 2000 Eagles and Dreams, very well built, designed and convenient use of all systems. Generally "overbuilt" and a dream to drive on the Spartan Mountain Master chassis. Once you get everything dialed in (correct tire pressures, alignment and ride-height set correctly) you will not even feel the truck and bus "bow waves" when they pass. Effortless driving
IMHO.

A 99 or 2000 Eagle are Dream will be well below your budget.

DaveS
1998 American Eagle 40EVS

[ferndaleflyer]

There are currently 2 American Eagles for sale on Craigs list in NC----I think one is in Raleigh and the other in Charlotte----both in your price range.....If I were to buy another that would be it hands down

[Roadglider09]

Just for information purposes, if your budget is around $70k, Camping World of Houston has a 98 Monaco Dynasty 40 PBS for $39K. It has the 8.3 ISC Cummins mated to an Allison MD-3060 6 speed transmission. This is a higly optioned coach and well maintained, and you just can't beat late 90's Dynasty's for durability. This one is a tank.
PM me if you'd like more details.
No, I don't work for Camping World.

[Ranger_Smith]

Our 1999 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom was purchased for around 50k

[RFCN2]

Piku - If you are going to live in a coach full time you should buy one with heavy made systems to take that kind of use. American, Foretravel, Blue Bird, Country Coach, some models of Newmar, Tiffin, Winnebago are rated full time.

We have a Country Coach and all the systems in it are heavy built. They do break though. Diesel motors normally go a very long time before they need an overhaul. But stuff happens. Like you air cleaner breaks, funk goes into the motor, and so on. Just try to get a motor that is not on the problem list.

I would not give up on Blue Birds, you might find what you want in your price range. Just keep in mind that Blue Birds cost a fortune to build new and if you have to replace parts it will cost big bucks.

As far as motors go look at torque amounts they are more important than HP. Our motor has 1550 lbs of torque. We go up any grade with ease. Diesel motors tend to go up hills far smoother than gas motors. Gas motors gear down and scream up hills.

American Coaches are well built full timer coaches that you should be able to find in your budget. Don't buy one that has delimitation problems.

If you shop right you can find what you want at your price. Tonight at dinner I was talking to a friend of mine who just bought a 2008 Tropi-Cal coach when he was back east getting his motor repaired on his other coach. The dealer he was at got this coach when National went BK and it has 12,500 miles on it. Three slides. He only paid 70 grand for it. Tropi-Cal is not as good as an American Eagle, but still a good coach. We bought our superb motorhome for about double what you will spend 4 years ago. If you went down a few models you could get a Country Coach in your price range. They don't have any of the issues you are concerned with. The only CC's I would avoid are the rear radiator ones and there are only a few.