Anyone interested in 83 Pace Arrow Tear down and Rebuild?

[fulltimin]

Started to look into some water damage in the kitchen of our 83 Pace Arrow. The more I looked, the more I found. I have some pics of the damage so far. Anyone interested in following a rebuild thread?

[JoeH]

I am in the process of planning and making a bar top out of 2 slabs of live edge wood. Once built, I will be coating the top with epoxy. In looking at the various 2 part epoxy coatings made for this purpose, most, if not all, that I've checked out say they are safe for use on food surfaces..... this made me wonder about your use of the POR 15 and it's safety in use in an area that will have contact with food preparation utensils. Will there be possible issues with chemicals leaching out, chips or peeling of the POR 15 getting on your dishware , etc. Probably a small chance of exposure, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway

[fulltimin]

I did not test until the joint broke. My clamp was getting to the point that I did not want to flex it any more, so I quit the test at 104 lbs.

Yes, 104 lbs. That is 52 lbs per linear inch.







Since the sink is roughly 15 x 22, that means I have 2 sides that total 30", and the long sides total 44". Added together, we've got a total of 74 linear inches to split up the weight of the water to.

Even IF, I could fill the sink to 10" depth all the way around, (I can't because only 1 corner is that deep, while the shallow end is about 8") we can figure a couple of things.

15 x 22 = 330 square inches - not accounting for round corners. Then we can multiply by 10 for height, which will equal 3300 cubic inches.

There are 231 cubic inches in a gallon of water, so, 3300 / 231 = 14.28 gallons of water, times 8.33 lbs per gallon.

So, 8.33 lbs x 14.24 gallons = 119 pounds. If that is split up equally between the linear inches of 74, we only come up with 1.608 lbs per linear inch.

Since I just tested the wall to bottom glue joint at 52 lbs an inch, it looks like that joint should be fine. Again, that would be in a worst case scenario, with the sink completely full with a depth of 10 inches of water.

There was no fiberglass nor epoxy with what I tested, just wood and glue only. Fiberglass mesh and epoxy would increase the strength of the joint as well.

If I am missing something, please let me know.

Also, thanks for bringing the subject up about the strength of the sink. If you had not, I never would have tested this, and wouldn't know the numbers.

[fulltimin]

Here is my testing setup. I clamped a 2 x 3 to the wall, so I could apply pressure to the bottom of the setup.

I used a 24" clamp to apply pressure, with the scale at the top.

You can see the bow in the clamp beam, and yes it did spring back straight after I was done.

That's my setup.

[fulltimin]

You can see here that the piece of side wall is about 2" long.

[fulltimin]

These 2 pics are how the piece of sidewall is attached at the top to another ring.

The screws do not go through the piece of sidewall, but are just clamping that side piece by fiction, while I try to pull the joint apart.

[fulltimin]

This is the ring that is attached to the bottom with a couple of Kreg screws.

[fulltimin]

Here is a different view of the same. The red arrow is pointing to a piece of side wall, and as you can see, this is actually 3 thin pieces of wood that are glued together.

The red circle shows the 2 screws coming up from the bottom, and also shows the glue joint I am going to test.

[fulltimin]

Ok folks. I have my test setup complete and have results.

I made up a setup to test the strength of the glue joint between the sides of the sink and the bottom of the sink.

Here is the beginning of that setup. The red arrow is pointing to a piece of side wall that I had left over.

I glued that to a 1/4" thick piece of plywood, which is what I used for the sink bottom. The black arrow points to the plywood, while the yellow arrow is pointing to the glue joint.

The blue arrow is pointing to a 3/4" thick piece of plywood, which is only screwed to the 1/4" thick piece.

[fulltimin]

Old Islander wrote:
It does look good...! But I also wonder how it will hold up over time. Assuming the sink is 10" deep, using your other measurements, it's approx. 1.9 cubic feet. Full to the brim with water, the water will weigh approx. 118 lbs. Of course, you'll seldom have it anywhere near full, but that's a lot of potential weight for a fairly thin bottom, approx 2.3 square feet. Hopefully, the layers of fiberglass wrapped around the bottom edges and on the bottom will provide sufficient strength.

(Note: In the volume calcs, I did not deduct the corner areas behind the curves.)

To test this theory, I am working on a test setup that I think will provide a little more insight as to how this will hopefully work.

I should have the results tomorrow.

[fulltimin]

LouLawrence wrote:
There are plenty of off the shelf sinks that would be large enough for your 12 or 14 in fry pan. In our last coach I removed the existing one, opened the hole a bit and installed a stainless sink from Home Depot or Lowes and updated the faucet and added in Insta-Hot. Wife fell in love with the Insta-Hot option and the sink was plenty large enough for everything you describe.
I'm just saying it's not like you needed to put this kind of extreme effort into a sink to get one large enough but we all enjoy the wood working seminar you have presented. I do have concerns about the longevity of your sink unless you have some additional plans to support the bottom.

A number of years ago, I was standing in a local computer sales/service store talking to the 2 owners of said store. They had opened up quite a while before this conversation took place.

They were having a rough week and during our conversation I posed the question to them ... "Why did you start this business in the first place"?

One of the two owners replied with a priceless response. "It seemed like a good idea at the time"!

[Old_Islander]

It does look good...! But I also wonder how it will hold up over time. Assuming the sink is 10" deep, using your other measurements, it's approx. 1.9 cubic feet. Full to the brim with water, the water will weigh approx. 118 lbs. Of course, you'll seldom have it anywhere near full, but that's a lot of potential weight for a fairly thin bottom, approx 2.3 square feet. Hopefully, the layers of fiberglass wrapped around the bottom edges and on the bottom will provide sufficient strength.

(Note: In the volume calcs, I did not deduct the corner areas behind the curves.)

[LouLawrence]

There are plenty of off the shelf sinks that would be large enough for your 12 or 14 in fry pan. In our last coach I removed the existing one, opened the hole a bit and installed a stainless sink from Home Depot or Lowes and updated the faucet and added in Insta-Hot. Wife fell in love with the Insta-Hot option and the sink was plenty large enough for everything you describe.
I'm just saying it's not like you needed to put this kind of extreme effort into a sink to get one large enough but we all enjoy the wood working seminar you have presented. I do have concerns about the longevity of your sink unless you have some additional plans to support the bottom.

[fulltimin]

After surveying the situation a little bit today, I finally hit the point with the sink where .... "that is going to be close enough". Time to get this sink finished and installed.

With that in mind, I decided to use Por 15 on the inside. I can still cover that with another type of clear coat when I am done with it.

Anyhow, this is a pic with the first coat of Por on the inside. That stuff just brings out the grain of the wood vey nicely.

[fulltimin]

In case you are wondering, this is a 12" pan, and the sink will allow for a 14" model if we decide to upgrade.

[fulltimin]

Next is the larger, similar to a "farmhouse sink" style. Yes, if I intended to fill it, it would indeed take a large amount of water. We usually don't use a lot of water, as we try to clean things up when we only have a few items.

However, it is nice to be able to allow the frying pan to be fully in the sink. Such is the case here.