Beginning the search for our next B - Lots of Questions

[jakegw2]

After 8 years (filled with lots of family camping) in our Pleasureway Traverse DW and I decided it is time to start the search for our next camper van. With two daughters (11 & 2) the Traverse is really at its limit and since we may have an addition in the future starting the replacement search now makes a lot of sense. Class B options for a young family have improved considerably in the past few years and we decided to check them all out in one place by taking a trip to the Hershey RV show this week. We found several very interesting class B models and would love to hear from current owners of each one and get the details of what they are like to live with.

Before I start with our impressions of the different models I just want to say that I had read a lot prior to the show and came into it leaning toward the Mercedes chassis based on the many positive comments I have seen about it. However, after seeing the Promaster chassis in person I realized that it has a lot to offer. The walls are more vertical and it is around 7" wider which makes a big difference in the feel of the interior. All of the Mercedes platforms felt somewhat cramped inside, and between the high price and the cramped interior we crossed the Roadtrek RS off our list pretty much as soon as we saw it. Also, although it is not mentioned in the individual unit comments below I spent time in the showers of each of the units we looked at and decided that they were all adequate for me.


Here are the models that ended up on our short list by the second day of the show along with our initial impressions:

The Winnebago Travato 59G - This was both of our favorite of the class B vans almost from the moment we saw it. We love that you can keep the adult murphy bed (the most comfortable bed we tried in any of the B's) made up all the time and that it has forward facing seats for the kids. The shower is very nice as well, large and private - good for use with a family. With the bed up there is room to use it for hauling lumber or furniture when needed. Unfortunately it has seating for only two children (and they would need to be children to fit too), so we reluctantly had to cross it off our list.

The Roadtrek Zion SRT - A new model for Roadtrek and my personal next favorite layout of the class B's that we looked at. I like how open it feels and how even though it has 3 rear seatbelts there is enough room across the exceptionally wide rear bench to put a fourth seatbelt and have room for a friend for a day trip. There is room for one of the kids to sleep on the front cab bed option (that sits across the driver & passenger seats) and due to the wide isle and flat floor there is room for two more to sleep, with one under the main bed (a really nice sized space for a kid and probably quite comfortable with a self-inflating sleeping pad, while they are small anyway).

I will add an aside here - With any unit we pick we will probably continue to have my older daughter sleep in her own tent when we are in campgrounds like we do now, but really want the option to have her inside so we can dry camp in a parking lot while traveling if needed or during a rainy one-night stopover on a trip.

In addition, it is only 19' 9" long, an advantage it shares with the 59G when it comes to driving and parking as a second vehicle (like we do with our Traverse) in the Northeast where we live. It also had a compressor fridge, which we have enjoyed on our Traverse and far prefer over the 3-way units. I liked that there was a macerator pump on the unit - a critical item for us to be able to empty the tanks at home into a drainpipe cleanout.

There were downsides however - storage was quite limited. You could have the extra passengers but nowhere to put their stuff. I am not sure why they did not put a large overhead cabinet in the rear like the ERA, it seemed like there was space for it and it is certainly needed. There is no outdoor storage. The rear bed was just barely long enough for me. We were also put off by the strong offgasing of the cupboards (it was particularly powerful when opening a drawer). It gave DW a headache when we visited the Roadtrek display at the beginning of the first day of the show. The second day we visited the Winnebago section first and then came to the RT section in the afternoon - she got a headache again after just a few minutes in the Zion. This was with all the doors open and the fan on the whole time. Do other people have a problem with the smell? Does it get better over time?

In addition to the smell a huge surprise to me was that the Roadtrek cabinetry and hardware felt flimsy and cheaply made compared to the Winnebagos we looked at (yes, you read that right - several parts were even broken on the RT display models just from people opening cupboards and panels during the show). I would never have expected this since the RT pricing is much higher and they have had a long time to get these sorts of details worked out. Between the smell (the real deal-killer) and the storage we have tentatively crossed the Zion off of our list.

The Roadtrek 210 Popular - This model was not really on our list initially but was much more attractive when we looked at it in person. I liked that it was lower height then the Promaster and Mercedes units (only 8' 9" tall compared to 9' 5" for the Zion or 9' 11" for the ERA) and still a shorter length then the Era. Inside it felt roomy and had a large amount of storage. There is enough seating for the family and the mount points for the rear bench seatbelts make it easy to add a third one in the back giving us room to bring a friend along on day trips. The bed was easily the largest of any that we looked at with lots of room to stretch out without hitting a wall or cabinet. One thing that really stood out to me was the huge amount of outdoor storage spread over four different compartments. Not only is there lots of storage space inside but all of the messy stuff you bring on a trip can stay outside with this unit. It was equipped with a macerator pump and a compressor fridge, both of which are big pluses for us.

The real downside here was the sleeping situation. The floor is uneven, so finding places where a second or third child can sleep is very difficult. The best we could tell is that one child could sleep on the floor in the center (blocking the restroom and sleeping on a potentially wet shower area). Not a great option which would force us to set up a tent outside for one or more of the kids most of the time. This unit we looked at had a similar (though less intense) smell issue. It also had cabinetry flimsiness, cabinetry hardware problems, and other accessory quality issues like what we observed on the Zion. I would not say that this model is completely off of our list, but it is not on the top.

The Winnebago ERA 70X - Going into the show this model was dimly on my radar, I knew about it but it just seemed too big. Well having seen it in person I can say that it still seems too big to me, enormously long on the outside. Inside however it was very, very nice. The seating for four in the front means that the younger kids can be near us while driving, and it also means there is lots of room to use if for bringing friends along or helping with rides. Of the Mercedes units we looked at it had the most open feeling, a little too narrow for my taste but still generally open.

There is a huge amount of overhead storage all around the unit along with lots of storage lower down as well. I would say it easily had the most interior storage of any of the units we looked at (This helps as there is no exterior storage). In addition, I was very impressed by the quality of the cabinetry. I have read about older versions of the ERA having poor cabinetry, but what I saw at the show was all quality hardware, excellent solid construction, and a very good level of fit and finish - much better then the Roadtreks.

The rear bed is large, not as big as the one in the 210 but still quite good. Sleeping arrangements for children would be the center isle toward the front and across the cab seats. Not perfect, but pretty reasonable for at least two, and in a pinch three if they are small in the floor space available while still leaving the bathroom accessible. The under-bed area is not really ideal because of the useless (in my opinion) table mount that keeps the floor there from being level (perhaps it could be removed?). Also, why would anyone put carpet in an RV? Have they never been camping? Seriously, hard flooring is the only way to go, so we would have to look at removing it from the rear of the ERA.

The unit had a macerator pump but unfortunately it had a 3-way fridge, a real concern as leveling such a large unit seems challenging to me. There are also lots of questions that I failed to ask at the show and are unaddressed on the website. How much battery capacity does it have? Can it be expanded? Does it have an inverter to allow AC devices to be powered from the battery? Does Winnebago use a quality charge controller in the current version (I have read that early versions did not have 'smart' charge controllers and could damage the AGM batteries). There are still a lot of the not easily visible details to look into further. I am interested in hearing feedback from owners of newer ERA models.

My impression is that Winnebago has made huge improvements to the ERA in the last 2 or 3 years and would like to hear the experiences of owners of these later models. I am also very interested to know your experiences with driving it. My concern is that it will be too big to use as a second car and that it will not be practical to drive in the winter. Both of these capabilities are important to us as we need two vehicles in the family and having to purchase (and park) a third vehicle presents several problems that can be completely avoided if our camper van can just be used when it is needed.

Despite the outstanding questions that we have we left the RV show with the ERA is at the top of our list for further investigation. We would still very much like to hear from Roadtrek owners about the cabinetry smell and about the experience of owning the 210P.

If anyone can provide comments about the driving differences between the Chevy, Mercedes, and Promaster chassis we would be interested in hearing about that as well. We are familar with our Ford van chassis and while it is not terribly difficult to drive it is certainly not like driving a car - the turn radius is huge and while it can be parked pretty much anywhere (only 17' long) it can be difficult to get in and out because of the large turning radius. It looks like test drives of the different models will be our next step.

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

[GENECOP]

Cost aside Advanced RV is made to order and very high quality, it's true they often have a few demos for sale, but Advanced will go through the design process with you and give you Exactly what you want to fit your needs. Sportsmobile will also do this But they really cater to off road vans...Really think about Advanced, might cost a bit more, but quality and customization can't be beat....BTW I have Nothing to do with Advanced, I just have been following them since they started and really like what they are doing...

[buta4]

Consider Sportsmobile. Their site has a method to design YOUR OWN layout as you choose it to be.

Site also has many options and prices.

Cue the Sprinter model 2x4 or 4x4. They have less "fluff" than the others and more "function".

Great for boondocking also with the right options chosen.

Interesting read.

[jakegw2]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. To answer a few of the questions that have been asked:

LTV and Pleasureway both make great products with really nice build quality (we glanced at a few of them at the show), but as far as I can tell none of their offerings are at all suitable for a family traveling with children. PW discontinued the Lexor TS4 a several years back and has focused intensely on the 'two people traveling together' market with all of their new offerings. We were interested in the LTV Free Spirit SS when we saw the initial videos, but as others have mentioned, it was discontinued in favor of the Unity (a two-person focused model).

Advanced RV is in this same group - their single layout is not really well suited for use with a family and would require a complete overhaul to make it workable. Besides, from what I have heard their prices are quite high and would really require someone using them full time to justify what they cost.

GWV was not at the show as far as I could tell.

Sportsmobile is interesting. I have read quite a bit about people's experiences with them and while you do get a layout that is exactly what you think you want there is no way to be sure what you think you want is actually what you want until it is too late.

We looked briefly at the full length Zion at the show, however it was configured with a rear dinette instead of a rear sofa. We strongly prefer front-facing seats for the kids. It is available in the longer length with the rear sofa according to the sales rep, however that version was not available to see at the show.

As for the smell - DW may be more sensitive then average about it, however I can say with certainty that from my perspective all the Roadtrek demo units had a much stronger smell then any of the Winnebago or LTV units that we looked at. We didn't spend enough time in any other manufacturer's vehicles to know if the RT smell is common.

There are a few small class C units we looked at, the Winnebago Trend and View, both which were quite nice. The Trend with the center ceiling-retractable bed was particularly appealing. There are a few issues with them however, most concerning of which is that at least some of the passenger seats are side facing instead of forward facing. The Trend also, from my brief review of the specs, seems to be nearly at the weight limit of the Promaster chassis and has limited cargo carrying capacity.

The larger issue with going to a class C is that it means that we would need to purchase another car to use around town and that the RV would spend much of its time parked. Since parking is somewhat tight at our house for two cars plus a largish RV I do not really see this as a great option. It seems would would loose a lot of what we love about our class B, particularly the way we use it all the time for day trips, long errand runs, hauling furniture or home supplies, etc. I also really like that we are able to get it serviced and repaired at a local garage. The nearest RV dealer is about an hour from where we are so being dependent on them for repairs would be a huge inconvenience.

[Shearwater]

Look at the Sportsmobile website www.sportsmobile.com

Figure out what you need, design it, and they will build it.

[Islandman]

I'd also keep Pleasure-Way on your shopping list, they are well-made units and have great customer support; we were very happy with our Excel model.

[NoVa_RT]

I certainly understand preferring the drivability & ease of parking a Class B, but for 5 people I think I'd look at Class Cs, too, starting with the smaller models. Anyone that can cope with 3 kids can handle a C if necessary.

As for the Roadtrek cabinets, I never noticed any odor or other problem with my 2013, and don't recall it being raised here previously. Maybe it's something recent or a case of hypersensitivity to some material.

[GENECOP]

Advanced Rv, you will also get a much higher build quality from them..

[Naio]

I can offer no help, but want you to know how much I appreciated your detailed OP!

[My_Roadtrek]

LTV does not make Class B's any longer, but there are used ones out there.

[GENECOP]

I agree with Midnight LTV should be on the list...also Great West Van.

[midnightsadie]

don,t see leisure travel van on your list, a better unit than the ones you looked at. leisure vans.com

[bkroczak]

First info about Zion SRT - 1 foot shorter than initial model...

Did you look at the original longer model?