Comparing Born Free to Phoenix Cruiser for purchase

[Travelin2]

We are looking to buy a used small rv. Today we are going to look at a couple of Born Free motorhomes. One is a 2004 24RB with Ford 6.0 liter Powerstroke diesel engine and propane genny. They are asking $29,900. The other is a 2007 24RB with the V10 gas engine. This one is advertised at $34,900. We are comparing them to a Phoenix Cruiser 2301 with a Ford 5.4 Triton gas engine and no generator, which we like the looks of. This one is too far away to look at but is in impeccable shape. They are asking $27,900.

We would welcome any insights or opinions you might have about these.

Some questions I have....Fuel mileage on diesel?....enough improvement over the V10 to make up for the difference in fuel price?.....What about diesel noise in the cab while driving?.....Anyone know if there were major construction changes in the Born Free between '04 and '07?.....Is that 5.4 Triton engine going to be a dog in the Phoenix Cruiser?.....Has anyone ever slept on one of those Phoenix Cruiser triple jackknife sofas? How's your back?...If you have knowledge or opinions about anything on these rigs, I would be glad to hear it.

[Travelin2]

ol'yeller....I think that's pretty good advice and I believe I'll take it. I'd buy you a drink for that if I could reach ya....thanks pard.

[ol__yeller]

Here's my free advice and keep in mind how much you paid for it! I'd pass on any rig that has delamination. You have to keep in mind that if something happened and you had to sell it, you will have a very hard time selling it, even at a steep discount. I know some folks have repaired delam but if the rig has it in one place, it is likely to develop it in another. There are lots of RVs out there without delam. I'd opt for one of those.

[Travelin2]

We went and looked at a 2005 Winnebago Minnie 24F today. It has the same specs as the Outlook/Cambria as far as storage, roof composition, tanks, layout and such. I don't quite get all the different names for the same product. It has 30,000 miles, the inside is basically as new but it has sat in the sun a lot and shows some fading. No chalkiness of the gelcoat so I could polish it back to shine. What concerns me is I found 2 spots showing some delamination. I'm not sure if this is a result of getting hot in the sun or the manufacturing method they used in 2005. Where the spots are actually are on the white areas and where the dark maroon decals are do not have a problem although the dark areas of course get hotter.

Has anyone dealt with this before? When you see it do you run and not look back? How is this repaired? Is it not doable? I like the rig if I can fix this reasonably. Another question....these 2 small spot show now is the coach destined to continue delaminating further?

Here's some pictures...Look just beyond the window.

[ol__yeller]

John, Glad I was able to help. If you liked the layout of the Aspect I have a suggestion to give more options. For some reason Winnebago had 2 lines of very similar RVs back then, Winnebago and Itasca. The Winnie was called the Aspect while the Itasca was called a Cambria. They are virtually identical rigs with only minor color and upholstery differences.

It is funny you mention vibration as when we were looking we saw a Cambria that also had a driveline vibration and the rig only had around 12,000 miles. It also had other issues that a low mileage rig shouldn't have so we passed on that one. Our rig now drives very well so don't let 1 bad rig sour you on the whole line. The clearcoat issue is pretty bad and is especially prevalent in the hotter climates and the darker colors. It is a shame on Winnebago to have allowed this to happen without making it right.

[pnichols]

John, I'm sorry about the 24V being in lousy condition. The listed price was way too high then. When we were shopping we ran into the same situation when we came across a used 24 foot Big Foot Class C that was not taken care of.

We like the 24V basically because it seems to pack everything needed in a small size, with the only thing missing being unnecessay (for us) room that would have to be kept cleaned, heated, and cooled. Two lounge chairs would be nice, but it takes a swiveling cab passenger seat to get that. Adapters are available to allow the Ford cab passenger seat to spin around, but the Winnebago 24V design is of a "basement" type - that's where the tall outside storage cabinets come from. But ... a basement design means that the coach floor is enough higher than the cab floor such that a spin-around passenger seat would put the user's legs almost straight out in front of them. However, if I were to list all of the stuff we are able to pack along in those outside storage cabinets it might look like we had a much larger rig.

Keep on looking ... you'll hit pay dirt if you're patient. We looked for a used one for a year before we unexpectedly saw a new 24V at an RV show priced way lower than we thought a new one would be. I think the dealer had it priced low because he couldn't get rid of it due to it not having slides ... which was the hot thing back then. However we did not want slides.

[Travelin2]

Well, I went and looked at the Outlook 24V that Phil showed me on the RV Trader link. The picture in the ad must have been a pirated screen shot grab because it was a mess. Fiberglass,damage, sun damage to the extreme, mildew smell real bad.

The Winnebago Aspect 26A was a very nice rig, 52,000 miles, very well kept, tires dated in mid 2015. The dark maroon portion of the paint showed lots of clear coat peeling. Same as ol'yeller. Also clear coat peeling above the windshield on the white. I would guess a thousand dollars at the paint shop to spruce it up.
The biggey was upon driving it there was a very noticable drivetrain vibration. Driveline problem I would guess. Prominent at 30 to 45 mph....started to lessen at 55 to 60. Maybe not a huge deal but since it wasn't my problem I left it just like that...not my problem. The search continues. I did learn one thing today. I like the Winnie 24v. Just need to find a garage queen.

[ol__yeller]

Travelin2 wrote:
ol'yeller, I'm glad to hear it's a good rig for you. The owner of the one we are going to look at Monday(it's a 2007) told me that during those years the manufacturer put a clear coating of some kind of armoring around the lower portion of the rig to protect from rock chips. I guess it only comes up 18 inches or so. He said it was found to be a less than desirable product as it discolors with age. According to him it can be removed without damaging the paint. Did/does yours have this? Have you heard of the stuff?

No, my issue is along the roof line where the roof meets the side panels as well as the front cap. My RV came from AZ sand it is the dark maroon full body paint. I assume mine was due to the hot climate and dark color. I know the years prior had more of an issue of clear coat peeling due to poor paint application even on the light colored ones.

[pnichols]

I believe that Spirit was to Itasca as Outlook was to Winnebago (... or something like that).

I notice that Winnebago no longer has a Class C they call an "Itasca", but they do have a Spirit Class C line (... or something like that).

I never quite understood where Winnie Minnie fit in (... or something like that).

:h

Keep us informed on what you decide!

[Travelin2]

The 2006 Outlook 24V that you mentioned is very similar to the Spirit. Any idea what the difference is, or is the Spirit the Itasca and the outlook is Winnie?

This is actually rather serendipitous since it is located only about 2 miles from the Aspect we are going to see. I am liking the storage, roof and overall simplicity for easy upkeep.

[pnichols]

If you pass on the 26A, here's a couple 24Vs to start your renewed search:

https://www.rvtrader.com/dealers/Optimum-RV-2896098/listing/2006-Winnebago-Outlook-24V-119723050

http://www.mwrvcenter.com/rv/2005-Itasca-Spirit-24V-0185

[Travelin2]

Wow! that's great looking country. That's what RVing is about for me. We had hoped to stay a little shorter than the Aspect but impatience being what it is, it's hard to wait for the perfect one to come by.

[pnichols]

John,

Are you really, really sure that the 26A isn't a bit too long? (just kidding) Good luck in your hunting for a rig ... and make sure that 26A is on the E450 chassis ... it should be, knowing Winnebago.

P.S. Here's our E450 24V out in the Utah desert camping in a small spot we had to slowly and carefully jockey into to so as to get the view just right from our dinette 😉 :

[Travelin2]

Still haven't found a 2450 Phoenix with the 5 speed tranny in our budget and the Winnebago spirit 24v is like hens teeth. We are headed out to look at a 2007 Winnebago Aspect 26A tomorrow. It has the full body paint, Alcoa aluminum wheels, levelers and such. Tires are dated about the middle of 2015 and the batteries were changed last Wednesday. He started out asking $41K and I have him down to $35K before we would go look. I don't really know what their worth. According to NADA we are OK but who writes NADA? I was warned ahead of time that the factory back then applied 3M clear paint protection film on the lower portion where the flare from cab to fiberglass is. Apparently the stuff looks a little unsightly after 10 years. I talked to a body shop manager here at the GMC dealer and he said they deal with it all the time and it's quite do-able as a DIY project. He said I could drive it by and he would offer suggestions on how he would approach it. Has anyone undertaken that job?

[Travelin2]

Thanks for all that info Phil. Sounds like a sweet rig. I spent about 20 minutes online and didn't find a one in my area in the 24v configuration. Pretty well tells you they are being hoarded by their owners.