Front end problems on ride home.

[darin338]

Ah you all gotta love us newbies. Full of ignorant questions. 🙂 and I've got another! Maybe a few more.

Just purchased our 2000 Newmar dutch star on a p30 chassis with a gmc 7.4.

The owner indicated the front airbags might be in need of replacing but he said it should be fine for our journey home some 540 miles away. WRONG! I did notice the front end seemed to be sitting a little low, but was assured it'd be ok.

I got out on the highway and about 30 miles down the road we went over a bridge with the big hump/ hump in the road. The front end tires must have hit the wheel well as it sounded like the world was ending and I could feel it in my seat. Something was either grinding or coming apart up under there. I pulled off and got out and now the front end looked to be sitting down so low that about 1/3 or more of the front tires were covering the front tires. Luckily there was a camping world about five miles away with a full service center.

Camping world can replace the airbags and will check things over under there. Not sure if they can fix major stuff up in the front end or not, we will see.

The other question is the brakes, they're mechanical and while they work to stop the coach, this does not seem normal. Do 2000 rv's still come with mechanical brakes?

The only other known issue at this time is the thermostat gauge is stuck about 150 and seems to be broke. Asked them to check this out as well. Hope the previous owner didn't fixate it there to avoid me seeing it overheat. Seemed to run fine otherwise.

[tropical36]

wolfe10 wrote:
Point of clarification: The Super steer replacement springs being recommended take the place of BOTH OE coil springs AND the air bags.

Said another way, they have more carrying capacity than the OE springs.

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/products/motorhome-rv-parts/suspension

Not only that, you also discard the HELWIG cross leaf buggy spring (about 50lbs) that are found on many large National chassis like mine and for me, it was a no brainer.
I did use Camping World, as this is one job that this little old man, would just as soon not do. Not only that, the springs themselves were cheaper through them, than ordering them myself with the $50 shipping.
They probably get them cheaper and I'm sure they made it up in labor, but overall, I don't have any complaints. Just wish I had done this the first time around and shortly after purchasing the rig.
Little tip here: Don't be afraid to go a little over your actual front end weight for installing the proper coils. I weighed in a little less than 5300lbs with the buggy spring still installed and had them order 5400 - 5900lb springs, which have been just fine. I'd rather be at the high end of the ride height than at the low end, leaving some room for eventual fatigue.

[Hank_MI]

For temp gauge, pull the connector off the temp sensor mounted in driver's side cylinder head. Short the 2 leads on the end of the cable together, turn the ignition on and see what your gauge does. This will tell you if it's the gauge or sensor. On mine it was the sensor, a few dollars and a few minutes to change it out.

[jayandanna]

We just purchased our coach a month ago and had the same problem. I went with the Hendersons up front and their Sumo Springs on the rear and at the same time I put Bilsteins all the way around. The difference is unbelievable!!!!! Forget those stupid airbags, this is our third coach and every single one had those darn things which were nothing but a headache. I was able to do the springs myself in about an hour and a half each side. 🙂

[wny_pat1]

From my understanding, the airbags were added to the P-30/32 suspension as supplemental spring support and not for ride control. The oem springs were not heavy enough. Have read all kinds of comments on how much the SuperSteer Coil Springs improve the handling of the GM P-30/32 suspensions, and no raving really glowing reviews of the air bags that wear out or end with improper air pressure. And you don't have to worry about alignment with the SuperSteer Coil Springs like you do with the air bags adjusted at different psi.

By the way, I believe Camping World also sells the SuperSteer Coil Springs.

[wolfe10]

Point of clarification: The Super steer replacement springs being recommended take the place of BOTH OE coil springs AND the air bags.

Said another way, they have more carrying capacity than the OE springs.

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/products/motorhome-rv-parts/suspension

[tropical36]

darin338 wrote:

harold1946 wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

harold1946 wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

darin338 wrote:
Ah you all gotta love us newbies. Full of ignorant questions. 🙂 and I've got another! Maybe a few more.

Just purchased our 2000 Newmar dutch star on a p30 chassis with a gmc 7.4.

The owner indicated the front airbags might be in need of replacing but he said it should be fine for our journey home some 540 miles away. WRONG! I did notice the front end seemed to be sitting a little low, but was assured it'd be ok.

I got out on the highway and about 30 miles down the road we went over a bridge with the big hump/ hump in the road. The front end tires must have hit the wheel well as it sounded like the world was ending and I could feel it in my seat. Something was either grinding or coming apart up under there. I pulled off and got out and now the front end looked to be sitting down so low that about 1/3 or more of the front tires were covering the front tires. Luckily there was a camping world about five miles away with a full service center.

Camping world can replace the airbags and will check things over under there. Not sure if they can fix major stuff up in the front end or not, we will see.

The other question is the brakes, they're mechanical and while they work to stop the coach, this does not seem normal. Do 2000 rv's still come with mechanical brakes?

The only other known issue at this time is the thermostat gauge is stuck about 150 and seems to be broke. Asked them to check this out as well. Hope the previous owner didn't fixate it there to avoid me seeing it overheat. Seemed to run fine otherwise.

Don't waste your time and money with the air bags and have camping world install the proper per front end weight....HENDERSON SUPER STEER...coils
Don't know what you mean by mechanical brakes as they went out with the Model A Ford. What you have are hydraulic brakes with power assist that is being supplied by the same pump as your power steering is. May not be as easy on the pedal as your vacuum assist car, but still pretty effective, as long as you don't tailgate or even drive anywhere close to anyone in front of you.

Why is it a waste of time and money to replace the airbags:@ Are you saying the GM and Workhorse engineers were all wrong. :S

Had nothing to do with GM and with so many others chopping up the chassis and using them for many different applications. I'm most sure this is something that the coach manufactures did to try and accommodate for the lesser cost and most profit. They weren't about to weigh every coach, fully loaded with gear and people and then install the proper weight coils for each and every unit. Many have even replaced these stupid bags when the coils were completely fatigued, so the proper ride height could never be attained and making alignment impossible. Now thats really throwing it down the drain. Who wants to be continuously monitoring the air anyway and especially when you're out there going across country. I mean, it's seldom that the system will let you know as soon as one decides to go limp on you, so do you check them every day or what?.

You have been mis-informed. The P series chassis was designed with air assisted suspension so it could be easily adjusted for the suspension loading by different coach manufacturers without having to change out springs.
Its realy as simple as checking the pressure in tires but many are too lazy to do that also. The coils become fatigued because someone failed to maintain minimum pressure. It was a GM design.
There are pressure guages and onboard compressors available that make it possible to monitor and adjust pressure from the drivers seat. It was an option on many coaches and few chose to have it installed. I had that option on our Airstream Land Yatch.

I'm gonna call camping world and ask to have the monitor installed. So is the airbags likely the culprit for the front end riding so extremely low then? I mean the coach on the front end was maybe 12 inches off the ground and half the tire covered by the wheel well?

Sounds like something broke in two if it's that bad, but I will tell you this and you can take this to the bank, no matter what the reason behind the air bags, even though everything usually has an economic basis of some sort, if your coils are fatigued and/or collapsed, no amount of air in any new bag (90psi max) is going to restore the ride height to proper specs. and as a result, will be impossible to have the front end aligned. So, you can either install the super steers and be done with it for good or you can install new OEM coils and the air bags as well, which usually have a life of about 3 yrs.. Your choice!
Please let us know of your findings with camping world.

[harold1946]

Darin 338
More than likely it is deflated airbags.
The Firestone automatic air command kit #2017 is about $270. and gives full control of pressures from the drivers seat and has monitoring guages.

[RayChez]

Not sure what kind of air bags you have, but I had some on my 2002 Ford F-53 chassis on the rear. They were the Firestone air bags to assist the springs, but I had to add the amount of air that I wanted to level the coach. I used 90 psi on the rear. I was just wondering if your system air's itself automatic like diesel pushers or how to they maintain the air pressure.

[darin338]

harold1946 wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

harold1946 wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

darin338 wrote:
Ah you all gotta love us newbies. Full of ignorant questions. 🙂 and I've got another! Maybe a few more.

Just purchased our 2000 Newmar dutch star on a p30 chassis with a gmc 7.4.

The owner indicated the front airbags might be in need of replacing but he said it should be fine for our journey home some 540 miles away. WRONG! I did notice the front end seemed to be sitting a little low, but was assured it'd be ok.

I got out on the highway and about 30 miles down the road we went over a bridge with the big hump/ hump in the road. The front end tires must have hit the wheel well as it sounded like the world was ending and I could feel it in my seat. Something was either grinding or coming apart up under there. I pulled off and got out and now the front end looked to be sitting down so low that about 1/3 or more of the front tires were covering the front tires. Luckily there was a camping world about five miles away with a full service center.

Camping world can replace the airbags and will check things over under there. Not sure if they can fix major stuff up in the front end or not, we will see.

The other question is the brakes, they're mechanical and while they work to stop the coach, this does not seem normal. Do 2000 rv's still come with mechanical brakes?

The only other known issue at this time is the thermostat gauge is stuck about 150 and seems to be broke. Asked them to check this out as well. Hope the previous owner didn't fixate it there to avoid me seeing it overheat. Seemed to run fine otherwise.

Don't waste your time and money with the air bags and have camping world install the proper per front end weight....HENDERSON SUPER STEER...coils
Don't know what you mean by mechanical brakes as they went out with the Model A Ford. What you have are hydraulic brakes with power assist that is being supplied by the same pump as your power steering is. May not be as easy on the pedal as your vacuum assist car, but still pretty effective, as long as you don't tailgate or even drive anywhere close to anyone in front of you.

Why is it a waste of time and money to replace the airbags:@ Are you saying the GM and Workhorse engineers were all wrong. :S

Had nothing to do with GM and with so many others chopping up the chassis and using them for many different applications. I'm most sure this is something that the coach manufactures did to try and accommodate for the lesser cost and most profit. They weren't about to weigh every coach, fully loaded with gear and people and then install the proper weight coils for each and every unit. Many have even replaced these stupid bags when the coils were completely fatigued, so the proper ride height could never be attained and making alignment impossible. Now thats really throwing it down the drain. Who wants to be continuously monitoring the air anyway and especially when you're out there going across country. I mean, it's seldom that the system will let you know as soon as one decides to go limp on you, so do you check them every day or what?.

You have been mis-informed. The P series chassis was designed with air assisted suspension so it could be easily adjusted for the suspension loading by different coach manufacturers without having to change out springs.
Its realy as simple as checking the pressure in tires but many are too lazy to do that also. The coils become fatigued because someone failed to maintain minimum pressure. It was a GM design.
There are pressure guages and onboard compressors available that make it possible to monitor and adjust pressure from the drivers seat. It was an option on many coaches and few chose to have it installed. I had that option on our Airstream Land Yatch.

I'm gonna call camping world and ask to have the monitor installed. So is the airbags likely the culprit for the front end riding so extremely low then? I mean the coach on the front end was maybe 12 inches off the ground and half the tire covered by the wheel well?

[DUNEBUGGYDOUG]

Boys, Boys calm down a little bit.

[harold1946]

tropical36 wrote:

harold1946 wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

darin338 wrote:
Ah you all gotta love us newbies. Full of ignorant questions. 🙂 and I've got another! Maybe a few more.

Just purchased our 2000 Newmar dutch star on a p30 chassis with a gmc 7.4.

The owner indicated the front airbags might be in need of replacing but he said it should be fine for our journey home some 540 miles away. WRONG! I did notice the front end seemed to be sitting a little low, but was assured it'd be ok.

I got out on the highway and about 30 miles down the road we went over a bridge with the big hump/ hump in the road. The front end tires must have hit the wheel well as it sounded like the world was ending and I could feel it in my seat. Something was either grinding or coming apart up under there. I pulled off and got out and now the front end looked to be sitting down so low that about 1/3 or more of the front tires were covering the front tires. Luckily there was a camping world about five miles away with a full service center.

Camping world can replace the airbags and will check things over under there. Not sure if they can fix major stuff up in the front end or not, we will see.

The other question is the brakes, they're mechanical and while they work to stop the coach, this does not seem normal. Do 2000 rv's still come with mechanical brakes?

The only other known issue at this time is the thermostat gauge is stuck about 150 and seems to be broke. Asked them to check this out as well. Hope the previous owner didn't fixate it there to avoid me seeing it overheat. Seemed to run fine otherwise.

Don't waste your time and money with the air bags and have camping world install the proper per front end weight....HENDERSON SUPER STEER...coils
Don't know what you mean by mechanical brakes as they went out with the Model A Ford. What you have are hydraulic brakes with power assist that is being supplied by the same pump as your power steering is. May not be as easy on the pedal as your vacuum assist car, but still pretty effective, as long as you don't tailgate or even drive anywhere close to anyone in front of you.

Why is it a waste of time and money to replace the airbags:@ Are you saying the GM and Workhorse engineers were all wrong. :S

Had nothing to do with GM and with so many others chopping up the chassis and using them for many different applications. I'm most sure this is something that the coach manufactures did to try and accommodate for the lesser cost and most profit. They weren't about to weigh every coach, fully loaded with gear and people and then install the proper weight coils for each and every unit. Many have even replaced these stupid bags when the coils were completely fatigued, so the proper ride height could never be attained and making alignment impossible. Now thats really throwing it down the drain. Who wants to be continuously monitoring the air anyway and especially when you're out there going across country. I mean, it's seldom that the system will let you know as soon as one decides to go limp on you, so do you check them every day or what?.

You have been mis-informed. The P series chassis was designed with air assisted suspension so it could be easily adjusted for the suspension loading by different coach manufacturers without having to change out springs.
Its realy as simple as checking the pressure in tires but many are too lazy to do that also. The coils become fatigued because someone failed to maintain minimum pressure. It was a GM design.
There are pressure guages and onboard compressors available that make it possible to monitor and adjust pressure from the drivers seat. It was an option on many coaches and few chose to have it installed. I had that option on our Airstream Land Yatch.

[2bzy2c]

This may be a stupid question, but wouldn't a test drive have uncovered the problem? I know, water under the bridge.

[tropical36]

harold1946 wrote:

tropical36 wrote:

darin338 wrote:
Ah you all gotta love us newbies. Full of ignorant questions. 🙂 and I've got another! Maybe a few more.

Just purchased our 2000 Newmar dutch star on a p30 chassis with a gmc 7.4.

The owner indicated the front airbags might be in need of replacing but he said it should be fine for our journey home some 540 miles away. WRONG! I did notice the front end seemed to be sitting a little low, but was assured it'd be ok.

I got out on the highway and about 30 miles down the road we went over a bridge with the big hump/ hump in the road. The front end tires must have hit the wheel well as it sounded like the world was ending and I could feel it in my seat. Something was either grinding or coming apart up under there. I pulled off and got out and now the front end looked to be sitting down so low that about 1/3 or more of the front tires were covering the front tires. Luckily there was a camping world about five miles away with a full service center.

Camping world can replace the airbags and will check things over under there. Not sure if they can fix major stuff up in the front end or not, we will see.

The other question is the brakes, they're mechanical and while they work to stop the coach, this does not seem normal. Do 2000 rv's still come with mechanical brakes?

The only other known issue at this time is the thermostat gauge is stuck about 150 and seems to be broke. Asked them to check this out as well. Hope the previous owner didn't fixate it there to avoid me seeing it overheat. Seemed to run fine otherwise.

Don't waste your time and money with the air bags and have camping world install the proper per front end weight....HENDERSON SUPER STEER...coils
Don't know what you mean by mechanical brakes as they went out with the Model A Ford. What you have are hydraulic brakes with power assist that is being supplied by the same pump as your power steering is. May not be as easy on the pedal as your vacuum assist car, but still pretty effective, as long as you don't tailgate or even drive anywhere close to anyone in front of you.

Why is it a waste of time and money to replace the airbags:@ Are you saying the GM and Workhorse engineers were all wrong. :S

Had nothing to do with GM and with so many others chopping up the chassis and using them for many different applications. I'm most sure this is something that the coach manufactures did to try and accommodate for the lesser cost and most profit. They weren't about to weigh every coach, fully loaded with gear and people and then install the proper weight coils for each and every unit. Many have even replaced these stupid bags when the coils were completely fatigued, so the proper ride height could never be attained and making alignment impossible. Now thats really throwing it down the drain. Who wants to be continuously monitoring the air anyway and especially when you're out there going across country. I mean, it's seldom that the system will let you know as soon as one decides to go limp on you, so do you check them every day or what?.

[harold1946]

tropical36 wrote:

darin338 wrote:
Ah you all gotta love us newbies. Full of ignorant questions. 🙂 and I've got another! Maybe a few more.

Just purchased our 2000 Newmar dutch star on a p30 chassis with a gmc 7.4.

The owner indicated the front airbags might be in need of replacing but he said it should be fine for our journey home some 540 miles away. WRONG! I did notice the front end seemed to be sitting a little low, but was assured it'd be ok.

I got out on the highway and about 30 miles down the road we went over a bridge with the big hump/ hump in the road. The front end tires must have hit the wheel well as it sounded like the world was ending and I could feel it in my seat. Something was either grinding or coming apart up under there. I pulled off and got out and now the front end looked to be sitting down so low that about 1/3 or more of the front tires were covering the front tires. Luckily there was a camping world about five miles away with a full service center.

Camping world can replace the airbags and will check things over under there. Not sure if they can fix major stuff up in the front end or not, we will see.

The other question is the brakes, they're mechanical and while they work to stop the coach, this does not seem normal. Do 2000 rv's still come with mechanical brakes?

The only other known issue at this time is the thermostat gauge is stuck about 150 and seems to be broke. Asked them to check this out as well. Hope the previous owner didn't fixate it there to avoid me seeing it overheat. Seemed to run fine otherwise.

Don't waste your time and money with the air bags and have camping world install the proper per front end weight....HENDERSON SUPER STEER...coils
Don't know what you mean by mechanical brakes as they went out with the Model A Ford. What you have are hydraulic brakes with power assist that is being supplied by the same pump as your power steering is. May not be as easy on the pedal as your vacuum assist car, but still pretty effective, as long as you don't tailgate or even drive anywhere close to anyone in front of you.

Why is it a waste of time and money to replace the airbags:@ Are you saying the GM and Workhorse engineers were all wrong. :S

[harold1946]

Your chassis has power hydraulic brakes. The previous owner told you wrong. Do not drive it any farther than you have to. With the deflated airbags the geometry of tha front suspension is wrong and will cause excessive wear on the inside of the tires. The bags provide assist for the springs and maintain the ride hight.
I suggest you do a total brake fluid replacement.