Front sway bar "slop"

[tarnold]

On an e350, the front stabilizer ends fit into rubber bushings within the I beam. How much flop if any should there be when you crawl under and push up and down where the ends go in the bushings? I've already added a Hellwig to the rear because there wasn't one(best improvement yet!)and was wondering about doing the front. I have about 3/16" travel now. Replacing the bushings would be a lot cheaper, but the Hellwig and Roadmaster use a much different way to attach these ends. Just don't know if their approach makes any improvement.

[j-d]

Montana170 wrote:
...Hellwig end links are set inward from the Roadmaster allowing more movement of the suspension before being effective, more sway. The Roadmaster end links sit outwards as far as possible giving more anti roll affect... As I have told my friends: RVs are not engineered, they are assembled.

You're right on the spacing. From 1992 till the newer Ford axle in 2008, Hellwig sat with a narrower end link spacing than Roadmaster.

I looked up the new style from Roadmaster and Hellwig. They are both now using the new mounting bosses shown unused in my picture above. Both bars 1-3/8" 4140 steel. So it looks like it was for the 1-1/2" rear bars 1-1/2" 4140 all along. Ya Pays Yer Money and Ya Takes Yer Choice.

Notes:

1. I was able to re-use an early model Hellwig bar on a later model axle. I realize that "on paper" it's less effective than the newer bar.

2. From my Axle Experience, I'd think you could use an early model Roadmaster on a later model axle. Better "on paper" but I wonder if we'd ever feel the difference under either scenario/

3. Roadmaster steps up with a recommended TORQUE SPEC for the newer Ford Sway Bar Frame Mounts!!! 50 Larger/Front and 35 Smaller/Rear. With RED (That's the Assembly Grade "it ain't comin' off maybe ever) LocTite.

4. Roadmaster is adamant about Torque (65) AND Red LocTite on their End Links. Might pay to heed their words on Hellwig installs.

5. Roadmaster spec was 25-30 on the small frame bolts for earlier models and did not include LocTite of either color.

***6*** Our RV's are ALL ABOUT COMPROMISE. Design, Engineering, and above all MONEY.

[Montana170]

Back to engineering. The Hellwig end links are set inward from the Roadmaster allowing more movement of the suspension before being effective, more sway. The Roadmaster end links sit outwards as far as possible giving more anti roll affect. But most anything is better than OE. To me the larger question, being new to the RV thing, why do we have to add all this suspension stuff to make our RVs safe to drive, why wasn't this engineered in by the manufacturer. To my thinking we buy a very expensive kit that is up to us to make right and safe. As I have told my friends: RVs are not engineered, they are assembled.

[j-d]

tarnold wrote:
...Hellwig tech support confirms a 7008 is the best choice...

I panicked when I saw the other part number and rushed to send a PM off so it'd tickle your email inbox even if you weren't back in RV.net.

SOOO Glad you called Hellwig!

@Montana... In this particular application, RM has the better attachments, no question there. And I was skeptical when I saw what Hellwig provided. Now that I've Installed, Checked, Removed, Installed, and Checked over about 10,000 miles, I have ZERO worries about a Hellwig Front Sway Bar on an E-Series RV Chassis. None. Would I like Roadmaster Pretty? Sure. Double Price, not. RM is also Plated, not Hammer Finish. But not for me at Double Price.

To continue, we have an OP with an E-350 that gets ridden HARD. Off road stuff, and he believes Roadmaster is appropriate for that. A lot of Roadmaster bars got installed on E-Series diesel ambulances, and I see them making sense there. Those of us, on RV's, not so much.

And By the Way, Advantage Roadmaster goes away with 2008 and newer E-Series, since Ford added those mounting bosses I show in my photo above. If I had upgraded my Axle from OEM 2002 to take-off 2012 from Quigley 4x4 BEFORE the Sway Bar, I would have ordered the Hellwig bar that works on late model E-Series without those U-Bolts.

[tarnold]

$283 vs $ a whole bunch more! Their prices are all over. Roadmaster has a nice mounting bracket, BUT! I ordered this am from Michigan spring, already got a tracking number. Called SD first, but not in stock, will take 14 days " to bend and paint".

[Montana170]

The Roadmaster bar is more expensive but it is also properly engineered. The U bolt mount mount on Hellwig does not fit properly and looks to be an off the shelf hardware store part. The u bolt should be tight to the suspension casting. They should at the very least used a top and bottom plate with bolts tight to casting. The thickness of the tab is suspect also, but in this case the u bolt will eventually stretch and turn protecting it from bending. This mounting system is fine for a light sports car but not sufficient for a heavy motorhome. I will post a photo of the Roadmaster mount on my 2006 e450 when I figure how.

[tarnold]

Op again. JD was correct. A call to Hellwig tech support confirms a 7008 is the best choice. Lots of bad info out there when you do a look up though. Our choices are up to a 350 cutaway van, which is what we have, which requires a 7604. Both bars are the same except the 7008 is thicker.

[OFDPOS]

Where are you ordering from ?
At the time best price I could find was through SDtrucksprings.com

[j-d]

According to This Look Up your front sway bar should be Hellwig 7008 and it's a 1-3/8" bar.

[tarnold]

Op again. Hope every listing is wrong, would like for them to be 1 3/8 but we'll see. Seems like some price fixing, every listing I can find with free shipping is $240.33. Will order tomorrow to get here Monday. Looks to be a breeze to install compared to when I added one to the rear. That was heavy when by yourself.

[ernie1]

I tried a Helwig front stabilizer bar a few years ago on my 2005 E350 Ford class b van. The big difference between stock and Helwig bars is that the stock one is hollow tubular material whereas the Helwig is solid material. I can't remember all the details but I eventually removed and returned the Helwig bar because it kept coming loose where the ends were fastened and being on the road, it becomes a hassle. The brackets were kind of a hokey setup and I think I had to replace the bushing in the I-beam with a helwig one. When the bar was tight and working, I felt a lot of improvement in the handling but the hassles of losing fasteners and brackets were too much. Don't flame me for misstatements because I don't remember every detail.

[j-d]

tarnold wrote:
Op here. Wish it was 1 3/8". But a '7604' Hellwig is only 1 1/8", never the less, bigger than stock.

Please let us know which chassis you're interested in a Hellwig bar for, and whether for front or rear.

We were thinking Ford E-Series, but I think I remember the Hellwig rear bar for Chevy 3500 being 1-1/2" also.

EDIT: Oh, E-350 with the 1992-2007 "Poke-In Ends". That's what we had and the Hellwig bar for that application IS 1-3/8". Your Hellwig rear bar should be 1-1/2".

Front installation does not poke into the axle. It looks like this:


The round hole in the axle is where the bushing for a bar like you now have is installed. The pad with surface rust and a bolt hole is what Ford added in 2008 when they abandoned the ineffective bar they used since 1992.

Roadmaster uses a more "elegant" mounting, but at half the price, Hellwig is completely satisfactory. We ran ours for several years on the original 2002 axle. It never worked loose or gave a problem. A few years ago, I installed a 2012 axle, switched the Hellwig to it, and it has again been fine.

[tarnold]

Op here. Wish it was 1 3/8". But a '7604' Hellwig is only 1 1/8", never the less, bigger than stock.

[j-d]

With our Class C motorhomes, we are neither racing nor offroading. We are trying to manage a heavy, wide, long, high box mounted on an inexpensive delivery truck chassis.

What we need is lots of roll stiffness, and those big 1-3/8" front, 1-1/2" rear bars accomplish that.

[OFDPOS]

As another poster here made the comment , by upgrading the undersized Anti sway bars, we are trying to get rid of the driving like a drunk sailor effect ..