(Gasoline) fuel injector cleaning

[dan23]

I currently have access and would like to remove the gasoline fuel injectors from a Chevy 454 for cleaning.

I'm not talking about running a cleaner through the system at home, I'm looking to remove the injectors for professional cleaning using chemicals and ultrasound, then tested.

Has anyone here had a positive experience with a company that provides this service? A company in the northeast US preferred...

Thanks.

[dan23]

phnguyk wrote:
6 bolts to remove the upper manifold, move it to the side, and/or disconnect throttle cable and completely remove it. 4 bolts to remove fuel rail. Remove fuel line from rail. Pop out injectors. The point is you're already going through hell, replace them, rebuild, send them out, whatever floats your boat. You asked a question, we/I responded differently than you wanted. Good luck.

That's on the Ford engine. Different topic, but thanks, and good luck, too. There's no argument here for you to "win," so stop trying by posting off-topic.

[phnguyk]

6 bolts to remove the upper manifold, move it to the side, and/or disconnect throttle cable and completely remove it. 4 bolts to remove fuel rail. Remove fuel line from rail. Pop out injectors. The point is you're already going through hell, replace them, rebuild, send them out, whatever floats your boat. You asked a question, we/I responded differently than you wanted. Good luck.

[dan23]

phnguyk wrote:

Changed the injectors on my Ford F150 V8 and on my Ford V10 Excursion pretty easy actually, was easier to do the injectors on my Excursion than it is to do the spark plugs. Just saying.

Okay. Every engine is different; your engine probably does not have the injectors under the upper manifold. Thanks for your information. Next MH I buy, the location of the injectors will be something I look at, LOL! On my engine, you have to disconnect a lot of the engine electrical harness before you can even turn a bolt, the distributor and coil, then the upper, then lower manifolds, then the fuel rail comes off for disassembly. Of course, that wasn't even my original goal, so I'd already drained the cooling system and removed hoses to get the manifolds off.

If anyone wants to hear about setting the ignition timing on the 454, now's the time to ask.

[dan23]

I want to post to tidy up information for anyone who may find this during a search.

As I stated above, I selected new injectors for about $57 each after pricing them at every parts source in my area; highest price I found was nearly $100 each. The injectors became suspect upon removal of the upper intake manifold (the intake manifold on my 454 is two-piece) and seeing a pool of fuel. At the time, I was moving onward, mechanically speaking, to expose the leaking gasket under the lower intake manifold. It was leaking anti-freeze as I'd tried to diagnose, even posting here:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27261589.cfm

I'm not the only person to be vexed by that problem; the problem diagnosing it is that first it seems okay, but then, no, it is leaking (coolant disappearing) without any external evidence. It's frustrating and not many are willing to dive into all the work involved without a clear, unambiguous indication. It finally came down to a clear, unambiguous indication when I saw anti-freeze on the cross member. At the time, I was replacing two deteriorated sway bar bushings I noticed when while removing the brakes to have the rotors turned for smoother brake performance. So, it was a series of failures and repairs that I chased for two weeks. Now back to the fuel injectors...

The particular injectors installed during manufacture of my Chevy 454 are no longer in production because they have a nasty habit of leaking down. This, I realized when I saw the pool of gas inside the manifold, is the cause of difficult starting I'd had-- and typical, but not the only possibility. Since the engine always did eventually start (sometimes one try, but many times three tries of the starter), like the antifreeze, it never made it to "must fix now" status. Until that day.

In any case, the happy ending is that all four repairs-- the brakes, the bushings, the gasket, and the injectors are now done and the engine sounds terrific. Only putting some miles on will test the repair, so a trip is in the works.

Oh, one more thing: the Ohio based injector cleaning site with the link in a post above is probably a scam. I was made suspect by the "we prefer PayPal," so I used this USPS link ( https://tools.usps.com/go/ZipLookupAction!input.action ) where I tested their address and it said no such address exists. Also, when you click on their "locations" you actually get only a claimed positive review from that "location," not an actual business location. If you keep clicking, you are led back to the original page directing you to pay though PP and send your injectors to their non-existent address. I suspect you end up losing your money, your injectors and a lot of time and frustration.

[phnguyk]

dan23 wrote:
I noticed this and thought I'd set the record straight in case anyone finds this thread via a search.
>>rgatijnet1 wrote:

Changing the injectors is not much harder than changing a set of plugs and I think you will end up being dollars ahead if you do it yourself.<<

Changing injectors is a LOT more work AND technically more difficult than changing spark plugs and no one who plans to attempt it should think otherwise. I'm not saying it is out of reach for quite a few, but be prepared for a dose of reality if you think the jobs are in any way similar in either regard.

Changed the injectors on my Ford F150 V8 and on my Ford V10 Excursion pretty easy actually, was easier to do the injectors on my Excursion than it is to do the spark plugs. Just saying.

[dan23]

I noticed this and thought I'd set the record straight in case anyone finds this thread via a search.
>>rgatijnet1 wrote:

Changing the injectors is not much harder than changing a set of plugs and I think you will end up being dollars ahead if you do it yourself.<<

Changing injectors is a LOT more work AND technically more difficult than changing spark plugs and no one who plans to attempt it should think otherwise. I'm not saying it is out of reach for quite a few, but be prepared for a dose of reality if you think the jobs are in any way similar in either regard.

[dan23]

After investigating my engine's OEM injectors further, I've decided that attempting to renew then by any cleaning and/or rebuilding process would be a waste of time and money. So I've decided to buy new ones; but they are not in my hands yet, so I'm not sure how this will work either. The OEM injector is no longer produced because of limited life expectancy and my failure experience is typical. My guess is that the manufacturer used units that would last about as long as the warranty period, and did so across a wide range of applications. Some examples of better units that both fit and meet the engine's needs are available and one of those is what I'll use. Building to meet the minimum requirements and standards is normally the case-- especially (but not limited to-- the RV industry), which is why I so far refuse to invest in a more expensive class A.

Thanks for your replies.

[ArchHoagland]

Cleaning company.

I haven't used these people but they do have places in the north east.

I didn't even know you could clean injectors out of the engine...never thought about it, but it makes sense if you've got them out anyways to go ahead and have them cleaned and checked by a professional.

Let us know who you use and how they worked out for you.

[Vulcan_Rider]

dan23 wrote:

I'm not sure how many times I'm supposed to repeat that I have the injectors at hand and that I'm sure they need service.

Well I won't "provoke" you any further by asking exactly HOW you know for sure that they "need service" and that a good chemical treatment won't help but..........I will say that your original post DID NOT say the above. The implication might have been strong but the actual words were not there.

We are just trying to give you our best advice, some of it coming from folks with a LOT of years of experience. But we can only go on the information that we HAVE. And getting the whole story out of you feels kind of like pulling teeth without any anesthetic.

Good luck. I hope you get it going again.

[dan23]

Vulcan Rider wrote:

Musicman wrote:
I have had great results with Sea Foam.

If you are NOT presently having a noticeable problem, there is wide agreement that Techron is the best additive for routine maintenance.

I agree that it probably is a waste of money and time to manually clean them if there are no symptoms.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

{edit} Just another "provocation" in your eyes, I guess.

Sometimes the best advice is not really what you thought you wanted to hear. It is only a "provocation" when YOU make it one.

Nasty replies to offered advice will GREATLY reduce the well meaning advice you get in the future.

I'm not sure how many times I'm supposed to repeat that I have the injectors at hand and that I'm sure they need service. I checked and there was only one sentence ending in a question mark in my original post, asking if anyone has experience with a company that does the work. Now, that was terse. Saying I'm "hell bent" on spending money on something I've repeated is necessary is a provocation and is not helpful. I don't need a lecture. I need and asked for the name of a service company that someone has used with good results.

And finally, have you done the obvious and contacted a truck dealer for your brand to see what they would charge. Most of the larger dealers do this in-house these days.

Thanks, but the local dealer is useless for this. Not everyone lives where every possible specialized service is performed, in this case me. Some things need to be sent away when that's the case. I have not checked Rock Auto's prices, but I will.

[Vulcan_Rider]

Musicman wrote:
I have had great results with Sea Foam.

Man, SeaFoam is a GREAT marketing company.

It is a good fuel stabilizer but if you look at the ingredients, nothing in there is really a good solvent.

If you presently have a problem that is traceable to the injectors or carb in an older engine, Berryman's B12 Chemtool is a MUCH better cleaner. Gumout is a close second.

If you are NOT presently having a noticeable problem, there is wide agreement that Techron is the best additive for routine maintenance.

I agree that it probably is a waste of money and time to manually clean them if there are no symptoms.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

{edit} Just another "provocation" in your eyes, I guess.

Sometimes the best advice is not really what you thought you wanted to hear. It is only a "provocation" when YOU make it one.

Nasty replies to offered advice will GREATLY reduce the well meaning advice you get in the future.

And finally, have you done the obvious and contacted a truck dealer for your brand to see what they would charge. Most of the larger dealers do this in-house these days.

[dan23]

topflite51 wrote:
Why bother? If you are hell bent on spending the money, buy new ones from Rock Auto or some other parts store.

No help at all; merely a provocation.

[rgatijnet1]

dan23 wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:
By the time you take it somewhere and pay their labor rates, it might be easier to just change them out yourself. REBUILT injectors for your engine are less than $30 each, plus a core charge that you get back when you send in your old injectors.
Changing the injectors is not much harder than changing a set of plugs and I think you will end up being dollars ahead if you do it yourself.

There will be no labor costs except for the cleaning and bench testing. Do you know a source for rebuilt injectors? $30 is not that much more than the cost of the clean and test service. Are rebuilt injectors a NAPA or other parts house standard available item?

Thanks.

Rebuilt ones are available from Rockauto.com for less than $30 or you can get new ACDelco injectors from them for a little over $100 each. I would opt for the rebuilt ones if it were my engine.

[topflite51]

Why bother? If you are hell bent on spending the money, buy new ones from Rock Auto or some other parts store.