Help / Stranded / RV will not start /Road Service is no help

[GlennLever]

Help

We pulled into the RV park here last night.

Connected to shore, had heavy rain.

Disconnected this morning and went to leave and the engine will not crank

Turn the key, dash lights up, gauges read.

Battery condition indicators say they are good and they were new last year.

Generator cranks.

Road service has been her for three hours, cannot find the problem

If power is supplied to the starter solenoid engine cranks and fires right up.

Ideas?

[GlennLever]

donnie d wrote:
Good job on the troubleshooting. I also had a problem and used Good Sam road service. What a useless effort for $200.

It certainly is a helpless feeling when you are stranded, with no tools to speak off hundreds of miles from home. It was odious to me these clowns had not a clue with an RV, they said so several times. That they only work on tractors. I will be generating a letter to Good Sam on my recommendation to take them off there list of people to call for RV service.

[donnie_d]

Good job on the troubleshooting. I also had a problem and used Good Sam road service. What a useless effort for $200.

[cbr46]

When a magnetic field collapses, like when de-energizing a relay or coil, it puts a large spiking voltage back into the circuit. This can be orders of magnitude greater than the supply voltage. Putting a diode backwards across the coil shorts out this "back-EMF". Not sure if that's the intent here, but a possible reason.

Best,
- bob

[GlennLever]

Ok guys....here is the solution to the problem.

I sent a request to American Coach as to the location of the relay, and received this rely.

Glenn,
The rear Gillig panel is located under the bed. Open the bed, then the engine access. The Gillig components you show are under there.
The front panel is under the hood in the front.
Hope that helps.

Deb Merritt


So... I went and looked and this is what I found. Sorry for the quality of the picture, it was dark out and I was lighting with a flashlight.



The elusive relay is found! under the bed on the forward baldhead in the engine compartment.

Had my wife turning and holding the key to start position and I used a test light to see if I had power from the key.

Off the nut holding the wires in place I did not, moved the probe to the eyelets of the wire connector and wiggled, the light came on and the engine surprised us and cranked.

Removed the nuts, cleaned all the wire eyelets with Emory paper and the engine now cranks for the dash again, no parts required.

Good Sam road service for four hours of work, they did not find the relay nor did they solve the problem ($500.00), just a work around, which did get us home.

There is a diode between the two terminals that is not in the wiring diagram, ideas on it purpose?

When the weather warms up I will do a complete cleaning of this area, I will also clean up the remote start that the road service installed. I would also like to have it so the engine can also be killed from the remote switch, I will have to think on that.

Turely, thanks for all your help.

[GlennLever]

YC 1 wrote:
Different coach but mine has a similar panel hidden with a plastic cover. It is not in my battery compartment. It would be very close to the starter in order to keep the wires as short as possible.

Once you find the relay you should be able to solve the problem in about two voltage measurements. Do yourself a favor and once you find it don't tug and pull on things to see if anything is loose. Takes some voltage measurements in case it is just a loose connection. Then you will have some facts. Better yet, take a digital picture and print it out. Then write on the picture your readings. Keep for future use. Don't rely on your memory.

Will do, thanks

[YC_1]

Different coach but mine has a similar panel hidden with a plastic cover. It is not in my battery compartment. It would be very close to the starter in order to keep the wires as short as possible.

Once you find the relay you should be able to solve the problem in about two voltage measurements. Do yourself a favor and once you find it don't tug and pull on things to see if anything is loose. Takes some voltage measurements in case it is just a loose connection. Then you will have some facts. Better yet, take a digital picture and print it out. Then write on the picture your readings. Keep for future use. Don't rely on your memory.

[I_rv]

Just to clear if you have a second solonoid its known as a slave solonoid,its purpose is to eliminate voltage drop on the long wire run from the ign switch,if you don't have a slave switch have a good electrical shop install one.when a solinoid just lightrely clicks but won't crank the starter then you jump from bat.terminal to "s"terminal and starter cranks its because of voltage drop,this will also cause arching of the contacts inside solonoid,replacing the solonid cures the problem but not the cause.If your into boats you can pick up a nice small waterproof slave at any mercruiser dealer. good luck

[GlennLever]

Now that I am home I have access to my home desktop computer and I also have access to the wiring diagrams that Gillig has sent to me.

It indicates the elusive secondary starter solenoid is in the rear electrical panel, bot the battery control box. Now that I am not fixated on the battery control box, maybe I can find the rear electrical box?????



While perusing the Gillig wiring diagram I also found a Neutral Relay, in what they call the Front Electrical Panel, now all I have to do is find that Panel also.

[jwmII]

FIRE UP wrote:
Glen,

I certainly don't mean to sound sarcastic but, it took four pages for someone to ask you what kind of coach, engine, chassis, and more. Many of the remedies that were suggested only apply to rigs with gas engines. Some applied to diesels. Now that you've stated your type of engine etc. Along with this post, I'm sending along a couple of pictures of the starting system on our coach. It's an '04 Itasca Horizon, 36GD with the C-7 330HP CAT.

Now, in those pics, you'll see the starting system relay and, remote mount solenoid. There's also a 100 amp fuse and, a secondary relay. All of which play a part in starting this beast. Now, here's a point. I have no idea if your DIESEL rig has anywhere near, the same type of system or not. If so, you'll need to find it and check it out. If not, well you can disregard this entire post.

But, our rig is 10 years old and, you'll see the kind of condition I found that starting system in, by accident when I was doing some other maintenance and repairs. So, while I had good access to it, I rebuilt it. But, your rig MAY have something very similar. Good luck.
Scott

All one has to do is look at his profile at the first post and all the coach info is right there. Sorry you had to wait for four pages to find out what kind of coach he drives.

[Ozlander]

Glad you made it home.
If you're smart enough to rig a remote switch, you're smart enough to find the problem and fix it.
Good luck and let us know what you find.

[GlennLever]

Tinstar wrote:

Tinstar wrote:
Exact problem I had about 2 1/2 months ago ANd it was the "other" relay that caused my problem. I had 12 volts from of the ignition but "0" at the starter. After a couple of days crawling around, I found an unlabeled relay. Put a known good on in it's place and my problems were over. That relay was in a bay near the back of the coach where my fuel filters were. It was hanging by wires on the back wall of a bay. Wiring went from ignition, to this relay to the starter. I was about to wire a remote switch on mine too and there's nothing wrong with doing that until you can trace it down.

Just a thought. I forgot to mention; The "other" relay I found controlled the 2nd solenoid that activates the starter. No juice was going through that relay to activate the 2nd solenoid that activates the starter solenoid. Hope that makes sense.

It does, believe that to be the problem, just cannot fine it. Arrived home last night, currently 14 degrees outside, think the search will wait a bit.

[Tinstar]

Tinstar wrote:
Exact problem I had about 2 1/2 months ago ANd it was the "other" relay that caused my problem. I had 12 volts from of the ignition but "0" at the starter. After a couple of days crawling around, I found an unlabeled relay. Put a known good on in it's place and my problems were over. That relay was in a bay near the back of the coach where my fuel filters were. It was hanging by wires on the back wall of a bay. Wiring went from ignition, to this relay to the starter. I was about to wire a remote switch on mine too and there's nothing wrong with doing that until you can trace it down.

Just a thought. I forgot to mention; The "other" relay I found controlled the 2nd solenoid that activates the starter. No juice was going through that relay to activate the 2nd solenoid that activates the starter solenoid. Hope that makes sense.

[YC_1]

Very often a person will not share every detail of a problem. Not intentionally, they either don't think it is important or just forgot.

For example in a recent similar issue a person did not mention checking their oil. Seems they managed to bump the rear start selector switch and things went on for a couple of days before discovering the issue.

Working in the Electronic Service business and gathering information from the customer I tell them we are going to play "20 questions". Explaining they may think the same question is being asked again. Sometimes it is and reading the customers face is enough to show some doubt. Often the questions will elicit a bit of a different answer. And in some cases, the hidden clue is revealed by accident thinking the symptom was not important. This is why keeping the customer or officer around for a bit was always helpful. Even if the niggling intermittent was not showing up the clues often led to a repair.

The OP had an intermittent problem in the beginning which would not be a blown fuse but could easily be a corroded one. It could be blown now of course.

IF the OP can hear the relays clicking he should be able to locate them. If not, another pair of ears and eyes can help.

I really suspect he will find his panel in the same condition as the one with the nicely rebuilt panel.

[Ivylog]

At this point I would use a test light instead of a meter. A meter can read 12V but a test light on the same wire may not work as a poor connection will not pass enough current to lite the test light.