how do i tell if 50 amps is coming through plug.

[karaokegal]

i own an RV storage facility and have 50 amp plugs onsite for my customers. The plugs and wiring was done by a licenced electrician. I have one customer who complained that even though the plug is working he is not getting 50 amps because he can not run his AC nor his refrig. I moved the customer and he had same issue at another plug then the 3rd plug worked. I called the electrician out and he said everything was fine. How do I prove to this customer that the plug is putting out 50 amps? Also what could be the cause in the rv that would cause it to work sometimes and not all the time.

[karaokegal]

ok rgatijnet to answer you, the voltage drop is not the problem. For this expansion i did not continue power from the same electrical service from the front. entergy came in and we put in new poles and new panel boxes that starts a whole new run. to chugs i dont have the answers to all your questions but i do know that the amperage on the two legs are balanced. okay guys, i dont believe their is anything wrong with my service. now i have to try to offer my customer some things to check on his coach.rgatinet suggested it might be ems system but i doubt that because he is not running a load. in my orginal post i told yall that i was a rv storage facility. clients can only run refrig. and only put ac on when they are servicing or cleaning coach. i am going to purchase two heaters as requested and have my electrician make me up one the splitter plugs and try this. thanks everyone

[chuggs]

dougrainer wrote:

chuggs wrote:
It's simple folks.

50 amps is a limitation...the camper may draw up to 50 amps...at which point the circuit breaker will trip.

The thing that runs his fridge and air conditioning is Voltage (pressure)... So with the a/cand fridge turned on...measure the voltage in one of the campers outlets. If it's normal...then that's not the problem...there would be significant loss over the line if the wiring weren't capable... If the circuit breaker is tripping...you can use a clamp meter to measure and record the peak amps...or simply swap breakers to make sure you don't have a weak one. Anyway, if his coach is tripping the breaker I would check for normal voltage... When voltage is low...the amperage draw goes up so the load can get the required watts to function. If that's normal...then the load in his camper is too high... IE maybe his compressors are going bad and pulling too high a load.

Sorry, WRONG. 50 amp RV service is a TOTAL of 100 amps.
As to the "misinformation" the fault of the RV industry. WRONG again. The RV industry uses the NEC electrical code as its basis. Blaming incompetent Electricians on the RV industry is wrong. Doug

Your point is noted...but it's irrelevant. The camper is a 110v vehicle. When you connect it to 220v...you simply have two 110v buses. EACH bus individually should be wired to safely carry a 50 amp load... Saying that it's 100 amps total is irrelevant. That would be like going into your house and seeing a 200 amp main breaker...and then insisting that it's really 400 amps... I don't see why you would want to do that.

You cannot tell me a way to place a clamp meter on an RV service pole and measure 100 amps. You can measure up to 50 off of L1, and up to 50 off of L2... So you could say you have 110v x 50amp + 110v x 50 amp. Or you could say you have 220v x 50 amps...but it's all the same. If you can measure 100 amps...something is wrong with your wiring. Amps is current. When you want to add thing up to see energy draw...you're better off talking in KVA, watts, etc....

[chuggs]

This is total speculation...

It would be interesting to know which leg from the supply Main is furnishing power to the campers a/c unit... Since one outlet, of the three was working...could it be that it's getting line voltage from the other supply line?

In a house...electricians try to balance the 110 loads...to distribute the power drain from each supply leg. That doesn't happen so well in a campground perhaps. You may have 20 campers which drain much more off of one supply leg...and hardly any off the other. This will be exacerbated IF the gauge of the common wire is a smaller capacity than the gauge of the L1 or L2.

50 amp campers aren't wired to balance loads...they are normally wired to put as much stuff as possible on one leg...so that you can function when only a 30 amp pole is available...and throw the extras like second a/c, washer/dryer, etc...on the second leg for those time you have a 50 amp connection.

Anyway...I would ask myself these questions...

1) From the supply panel...have the electrician measure the amperage draw on each of the two service legs. Are they balanced?

2) If you trip one leg of the service main...and then check each RV service pole...is the remaining powered leg oriented to the same terminal? If so...it might help to balance the loads if you alternate... This will help to compensate for the way rv's use power.

3) check the wire gauge of the common return line. If this is less than the supply lines...then it can be restricting the service whenever the conditions enter an imbalanced condition.

This might be the problem. It doesn't mean that you have a bad electrician...just one that didn't think about how rv's are wired...and how imbalanced the loads can get when you have a bunch of them drawing power...primarily from only one service leg.

[rgatijnet1]

karaokegal wrote:
wow i am very suprised how many people have responded already. first of all this electrician is very familiar with proper RV wiring of 50 amp power. He has wired my my facility when it was new 7 yrs ago and i have done 4 expansions since then and i have never had problems. I suspect it is a problem in the coach but i always give the customer the benefit of the doubt. The area that the person is parked in is a new expansion so this customer is the first to use it. It was working for him for awhile until he complained. He said that everything worked when he ran on generator power. I moved him per his request until it was "fixed". I would leave him there but the plug in on that spot is on the other side of his coach so he requested to move back when plug is "fixed. I suspect something is wrong with his coach. By the way someone mentioned that i didnt know much about electical issues and that is true. i am a female business owner so my electical knowledge is limited. also someone said that the electrician may have fixed something without telling me and i know that is not true because i was with him the hold time as he checked the voltage and he expained to me what the readings should read. He also suggested that the person should get his coach checked. i am going to call the customer and try to get him to stay where he is now,but i bet when he goes on a trip and comes back he may complain again because i suspect moving the coach will jiggle something.thanks everyone

In your original post you asked what could cause a motor home's systems to work at one plug and not at another. If the coach had an energy management system(EMS) it could be reacting to low voltage and shutting down to prevent damage to an appliance. Also if the polarity, ground, or neutral were not wired properly or were loose, the EMS could kick off the system. Now, if your electrician walked around and showed you the voltage at the outlets, that is fine, BUT, it really does not show what the voltage is when an RV is hooked up and drawing a load. This usually causes the voltage to drop, which could be enough to kick out the coach EMS system.
It is good that you trust your electrician, but after being a Commercial Contractor for decades, all I will say is that ALL electricians are not created equal. Like people in any profession, mistakes could have been made. You mentioned that he did the wiring of your facility 7 years ago. Since then you have expanded 4 times. If the source, where the power firsts runs through your electrical meter, is not large enough to handle the additional load from the four expansions, this can cause an unacceptable voltage drop. If the wire gauge used was not large enough to cover the added distance to the power outlets in your 4th expansion is not large enough, this can cause an unacceptable voltage drop. This voltage drop can vary from slight to extreme depending on how many other coaches are also drawing power along that same line. In other words, with a meter the voltage may be fine. Hook up one coach and the voltage may drop, depending on how much current it is using. Hook up a second and third coach and the voltage may drop enough to start kicking of the coaches EMS system.
I have been in RV parks before where the power was fine when I first got there. As the park started to fill, and everyone's AC units started cranking up, the voltage would drop enough to cause some EMS systems to kick off power in a coach.
I still suggest having a different electrician inspect your system. It will not cost that much and would give you not only peace of mind but also more information to provide to your customer if, in fact, the wiring is done properly.

[dougrainer]

karaokegal wrote:
wow i am very suprised how many people have responded already. first of all this electrician is very familiar with proper RV wiring of 50 amp power. He has wired my my facility when it was new 7 yrs ago and i have done 4 expansions since then and i have never had problems. I suspect it is a problem in the coach but i always give the customer the benefit of the doubt. The area that the person is parked in is a new expansion so this customer is the first to use it. It was working for him for awhile until he complained. He said that everything worked when he ran on generator power. I moved him per his request until it was "fixed". I would leave him there but the plug in on that spot is on the other side of his coach so he requested to move back when plug is "fixed. I suspect something is wrong with his coach. By the way someone mentioned that i didnt know much about electical issues and that is true. i am a female business owner so my electical knowledge is limited. also someone said that the electrician may have fixed something without telling me and i know that is not true because i was with him the hold time as he checked the voltage and he expained to me what the readings should read. He also suggested that the person should get his coach checked. i am going to call the customer and try to get him to stay where he is now,but i bet when he goes on a trip and comes back he may complain again because i suspect moving the coach will jiggle something.thanks everyone

You state your facility is wired correctly. ANSWER 1 question to clear that up.
1. EACH 50 amp receptacle at your facility, HOW many breakers does each plug have? 1- 50 amp or 2- 50 amp breakers? Doug

[dougrainer]

chuggs wrote:
It's simple folks.

50 amps is a limitation...the camper may draw up to 50 amps...at which point the circuit breaker will trip.

The thing that runs his fridge and air conditioning is Voltage (pressure)... So with the a/cand fridge turned on...measure the voltage in one of the campers outlets. If it's normal...then that's not the problem...there would be significant loss over the line if the wiring weren't capable... If the circuit breaker is tripping...you can use a clamp meter to measure and record the peak amps...or simply swap breakers to make sure you don't have a weak one. Anyway, if his coach is tripping the breaker I would check for normal voltage... When voltage is low...the amperage draw goes up so the load can get the required watts to function. If that's normal...then the load in his camper is too high... IE maybe his compressors are going bad and pulling too high a load.

Sorry, WRONG. 50 amp RV service is a TOTAL of 100 amps.
As to the "misinformation" the fault of the RV industry. WRONG again. The RV industry uses the NEC electrical code as its basis. Blaming incompetent Electricians on the RV industry is wrong. Doug

[chuggs]

It's simple folks.

50 amps is a limitation...the camper may draw up to 50 amps...at which point the circuit breaker will trip.

The thing that runs his fridge and air conditioning is Voltage (pressure)... So with the a/cand fridge turned on...measure the voltage in one of the campers outlets. If it's normal...then that's not the problem...there would be significant loss over the line if the wiring weren't capable... If the circuit breaker is tripping...you can use a clamp meter to measure and record the peak amps...or simply swap breakers to make sure you don't have a weak one. Anyway, if his coach is tripping the breaker I would check for normal voltage... When voltage is low...the amperage draw goes up so the load can get the required watts to function. If that's normal...then the load in his camper is too high... IE maybe his compressors are going bad and pulling too high a load.

[s_N_s]

MrWizard wrote:
Did the electrician install 4 bladed RV plugs?
The RV industry calls that 50 amps
Thing is a 50 amp RV is really 100 amp RV
It's 50 amps per leg, on two legs 120v each

If the electrician installed 50 amp twist lock, that is a 50 amp service, with two legs that are 25 amps each

A RV service will have a double pole 50 amp circuit breaker, 50 amps each leg

Most electricians area not familiar with RV industry nomenclature
You tell them 50 amps they will give 50 amps power,
NOT RV power of two 50 amp legs, which is really 100 amps power

Btw 30 amp RV, use only one 30 amp leg
The misinformation, is entirely the fault of the RV industry

:h WHAT??

[s_N_s]

naturist wrote:
50 amp RV service is really two separate 120 volt, 25 amp circuits, as I understand it. This would suggest you only need a tester capable of drawing 25 amps. 25 amps at 120 volts is 3,000 watts. So get two 1500 watt heaters (probably run you $15-$20 at Wallys -- or heck, you probably have a couple laying around already, as that is the "standard" small space heater wattage). Plug 'em in together on one branch of the circuit, then the other, and if the circuits both support the heaters going full blast for, oh, say, one minute, you got 50 amp service.

LOLOLOL! Now this is funny. I hope this isn't taken to heart by anyone.

[Executive45]

karaokegal wrote:
I have one customer who complained that even though the plug is working he is not getting 50 amps because he can not run his AC nor his refrig. I moved the customer and he had same issue at another plug then the 3rd plug worked.

1. What rig does he have?
2. A/C s do not require 50amp service nor do fridges.
3. Is his power cord plug in or twist lock?
4. Verify he's using a 50amp plug. (four prongs)

Another easy way to check things, is have another coach plug in where he claims the plug did not work. If that coach works, it's his problem not yours.....Dennis

[karaokegal]

wow i am very suprised how many people have responded already. first of all this electrician is very familiar with proper RV wiring of 50 amp power. He has wired my my facility when it was new 7 yrs ago and i have done 4 expansions since then and i have never had problems. I suspect it is a problem in the coach but i always give the customer the benefit of the doubt. The area that the person is parked in is a new expansion so this customer is the first to use it. It was working for him for awhile until he complained. He said that everything worked when he ran on generator power. I moved him per his request until it was "fixed". I would leave him there but the plug in on that spot is on the other side of his coach so he requested to move back when plug is "fixed. I suspect something is wrong with his coach. By the way someone mentioned that i didnt know much about electical issues and that is true. i am a female business owner so my electical knowledge is limited. also someone said that the electrician may have fixed something without telling me and i know that is not true because i was with him the hold time as he checked the voltage and he expained to me what the readings should read. He also suggested that the person should get his coach checked. i am going to call the customer and try to get him to stay where he is now,but i bet when he goes on a trip and comes back he may complain again because i suspect moving the coach will jiggle something.thanks everyone

[time2roll]

peaches&cream wrote:
I agree, it can be what if-ed to death, but if I was renting a RV spot and was threatened with a service call payment to your business, I would tell you to stick it and I would find somewhere else to park. Chances are pretty good owner has plugged in previously in other sites without any problem.

I understand your point. What if you are the park owner....
How many days a week do you have an electrician come out at your cost to find nothing wrong. RVs rolling in every day.

[MrWizard]

Did the electrician install 4 bladed RV plugs?
The RV industry calls that 50 amps
Thing is a 50 amp RV is really 100 amp RV
It's 50 amps per leg, on two legs 120v each

If the electrician installed 50 amp twist lock, that is a 50 amp service, with two legs that are 25 amps each

A RV service will have a double pole 50 amp circuit breaker, 50 amps each leg

Most electricians area not familiar with RV industry nomenclature
You tell them 50 amps they will give 50 amps power,
NOT RV power of two 50 amp legs, which is really 100 amps power

Btw 30 amp RV, use only one 30 amp leg
The misinformation, is entirely the fault of the RV industry

[peaches_cream]

smkettner wrote:

peaches&cream wrote:
If the problem is the RV, why did moving it to another spot fix it?
cwit and I would like to know.

Maybe the 50a twistlock was not fully inserted.
Maybe a breaker in the RV was tripped.
Maybe the transfer switch has intermittent issues.
Trouble was fridge and air conditioning that also require proper 12 volts... maybe an issue with the converter or battery system.
Could also be issues with the energy management system.
Maybe the RV owner wanted a different spot.
The list is endless.

Or maybe it was the outlet and the electrician fixed it to cover up his previous work and just declared he found nothing.

It is a circle of no answers because the RV was moved vs diagnosed while the failure happened. This is what makes electricity tough to diagnose over the internet.

I agree, it can be what if-ed to death, but if I was renting a RV spot and was threatened with a service call payment to your business, I would tell you to stick it and I would find somewhere else to park. Chances are pretty good owner has plugged in previously in other sites without any problem.

[dougrainer]

1. I doubt that a RV storage facility would spend the thousands of dollars to install CORRECT RV 50 amp service(total of 100 amps).
2. I will bet the RV 50 amp plugs are on just 1(one) 50 amp breaker split between the two hot legs and the OP has some type of EMS system restricting his RV to 30 amps.
3. To SHOW the OP if he has 50 amps is REALLY SIMPLE. Just take the OP to the Main Breaker box for the Storage facility and show him the breakers for his particular storage site. There should be a 50 amp breaker for each leg(2 breakers). How hard is that????????????????????????? Doug