HWH levelers

[kohlerguy]

Have HWH 625 levelers on a 05 Newmar Dutch Star. On my return trip from Az I noticed the back jack indicators lights came on while going down the road. Now the back jacks have not gone compeletly up since I bought it a year ago and have not had the red indicator lights come on til lately. We have taken some short trips and everything is good until we are down the road a few miles. I've checked them when the lights come on and I can see about 4 inches of the cylinder showing which has been normal since purchase. They work fine otherwise. Front ones always to up completely. When I am getting ready for traveling, the control panel is always green in the travel mode.
I'm suspecting they are dropping down just enough to activate the red lights but that's just my opinion.
Will replacing the shuttle valve bring the back jacks up completely?
Any ideas?

[Gjac]

dougrainer wrote:

Gjac wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

Mandalay Parr wrote:
Also may need to lube the cylinder shaft.

ANY lube is a band aid for the real problem. HWH jacks are immersed in ATF when retracted. Lubing will help for a few weeks and then the seals still cause the problem. Doug

Doug you have described many times how these seals go bad and need to be replaced. What actually happens, do the seals swell causing a tight condition preventing full retraction? What are the seals made from that cause this condition? Is there a different seal material that you know of that can be used to prevent this swelling if that is what is causing this problem? This seems to be more of a problem with the newer HWH systems I don't see this amount of posts on the older joy stick models. Where different seals used, or more clearance between the shaft and seals?

The problem started about 10 years ago and took years to develope the problem(inner seals). Once HWH realized they had a problem with the seals(HWH DID back then recommended Lubing and such as they were not fully aware of the problem), they redesigned the seal material. BUT, for older than 5 year old jacks, the correct fix is either new cylinders or rebuild yours. It still happens occasionally under warranty or a few years out of warranty, but the repair and CORRECT fix is still the same---REPLACE or REBUILD the cylinder. You can continue to crawl under your RV every few months or so and hand wipe and use various lubricants to help free them up, but the problem remains. As I stated, about springs, yes the NEW style springs are tapered on the ends. If you have the old style springs it is best to replace all 8 of them with the newer stronger. BUT, NEW springs will NOT fix a sticking jack problem. They just retract quicker and are a tab bit stronger, but NOT strong enough to overcome sticking inner seals. The TEST for sticking inner seals is to extend the jacks for 24 hours THEN retract, If 1 or more do not fully retract within 5 minutes replace the cylinder. Just extending and THEN retracting, the inner seals will sometimes allow a full retract because you have just used them. Doug

Doug I assume by your answer that you don't get into the actual seal engineering or seal material. I don't know if you or Pete can talk to the engineers at HWH and find out the mechanics of what is causing so many seals to fail. When the seal is replaced is HWH replacing it with the same seal? Or does the new seal have more clearance or made from a different material or a new design ? If it is the same seal won't this problem occur again?

[okgc]

kohlerguy wrote:
I was surfing around and found a hwh forum. Someone said the rear ones cost about $375 for the rebuild. Front ones are about $100.00 less.

I paid less than $350 for a brand new HWH rear jack in Red Bay. PD & install were less than $100.

[classpro]

I have this problem, and I'm pretty sure it's just the seals - nothing bent. Will a local repair place have the right seals or do i need to get them from hwh before i bring the cylinder in for repair?

By the way, I called hwh and they told me it would be 4 weeks before a tech could call me back to diagnose the problem. Given that this appears to be a design defect, I don't understand why so many praise hwh's customer service.

[azpete]

it depends on what is required to fix the cylinder.
some only need new seals, and others have a bent shaft.
thats where the difference is. either way, when its done, you get a one year parts and labor warranty on the cylinder.

[kohlerguy]

I was surfing around and found a hwh forum. Someone said the rear ones cost about $375 for the rebuild. Front ones are about $100.00 less.

[kohlerguy]

I was surfing around and found a hwh forum. Someone said the rear ones cost about $375 for the rebuild. Front ones are about $100.00 less.

[kohlerguy]

Great advice, thank you. Now does anyone have any idea what it costs to rebuild them?

[BUCKEYE707]

If you should decide to have the jacks rebuilt, check with a local hydraulic shop. They will rebuild them in a day or two, it will cost less than HWH, and your down time will be shorter.

[dougrainer]

Gjac wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

Mandalay Parr wrote:
Also may need to lube the cylinder shaft.

ANY lube is a band aid for the real problem. HWH jacks are immersed in ATF when retracted. Lubing will help for a few weeks and then the seals still cause the problem. Doug

Doug you have described many times how these seals go bad and need to be replaced. What actually happens, do the seals swell causing a tight condition preventing full retraction? What are the seals made from that cause this condition? Is there a different seal material that you know of that can be used to prevent this swelling if that is what is causing this problem? This seems to be more of a problem with the newer HWH systems I don't see this amount of posts on the older joy stick models. Where different seals used, or more clearance between the shaft and seals?

The problem started about 10 years ago and took years to develope the problem(inner seals). Once HWH realized they had a problem with the seals(HWH DID back then recommended Lubing and such as they were not fully aware of the problem), they redesigned the seal material. BUT, for older than 5 year old jacks, the correct fix is either new cylinders or rebuild yours. It still happens occasionally under warranty or a few years out of warranty, but the repair and CORRECT fix is still the same---REPLACE or REBUILD the cylinder. You can continue to crawl under your RV every few months or so and hand wipe and use various lubricants to help free them up, but the problem remains. As I stated, about springs, yes the NEW style springs are tapered on the ends. If you have the old style springs it is best to replace all 8 of them with the newer stronger. BUT, NEW springs will NOT fix a sticking jack problem. They just retract quicker and are a tab bit stronger, but NOT strong enough to overcome sticking inner seals. The TEST for sticking inner seals is to extend the jacks for 24 hours THEN retract, If 1 or more do not fully retract within 5 minutes replace the cylinder. Just extending and THEN retracting, the inner seals will sometimes allow a full retract because you have just used them. Doug

[Gjac]

dougrainer wrote:

Mandalay Parr wrote:
Also may need to lube the cylinder shaft.

ANY lube is a band aid for the real problem. HWH jacks are immersed in ATF when retracted. Lubing will help for a few weeks and then the seals still cause the problem. Doug

Doug you have described many times how these seals go bad and need to be replaced. What actually happens, do the seals swell causing a tight condition preventing full retraction? What are the seals made from that cause this condition? Is there a different seal material that you know of that can be used to prevent this swelling if that is what is causing this problem? This seems to be more of a problem with the newer HWH systems I don't see this amount of posts on the older joy stick models. Where different seals used, or more clearance between the shaft and seals?

[dougrainer]

Mandalay Parr wrote:
Also may need to lube the cylinder shaft.

ANY lube is a band aid for the real problem. HWH jacks are immersed in ATF when retracted. Lubing will help for a few weeks and then the seals still cause the problem. Doug

[den60]

I had the same problem with my 2005 Newmar Northern Star. I had all the springs replaced with the new style springs. They have a taper toward the end of the spring were the hook is. I always have my jacks down and haven't had a problem since. Hope this helps.

[Mandalay_Parr]

Also may need to lube the cylinder shaft.

[dougrainer]

Why do you think you have a bad shuttle valve? You do NOT, but I want to know why you think it is bad. The reason the jacks are not fully retracting is simple. BOTH jack inner upper seals are bad and are not allowing the jacks to fully retract. You should NEVER see any part of the silver inner piston when they are fully retracted. 625 system will not cause the jacks to extend in transit from road heat. The springs are OK if they retract until you get to the 3 to 4 inch mark. The repair is to either rebuild both rear jacks or replace. HWH will rebuild yours, but you must send them in for rebuild which is about 1/2 the cost of new cylinders. Since the jacks are not fully retracted, road heat and engine heat can expand the fluid in the lines and cause the jack cylinders to slightly extend and THAT will cause enough movement to trigger the down switch in each jack. 625 system down switches have MORE play in them than 300/325 systems. You have just been lucky the past year. Doug