In the market !!

[campkodiak23]

Hello ~ In the market for a Class C... coming from a 19foot Sunline TT . We have fallen in love with the Tiffin Class C.... $$ It would be a stretch... but a possibility. That being said .. what others should we consider. If you could mention pros/cons also, with other brands. 1. Would prefer door to open ALL the way not stop because of awning. 2. Walk around beds 3. Don't need (prefer not ) to have all that space up top over driver- think it would be a catch all 4. Gas vs diesel? who knows 5. Companies / units to stay away from and why.... 6. Sunline built their campers solid, need to find comparable .... any and all thoughts welcome! BRING ON SPRING .... thank you in advance.
Sarah

[Cougar-Denali]

PER COACHMEN LEPRECHAUN:
Ford 260DSF has 7500lb hitch capacity and Chevy 260DCC is 5000lb. MAJOR DIFFERENCE...
DSF has more CCC...
DSF has shorter wheelbase and overall length which equates to better handling rating per rv.org ...
All THINGS ARE NOT EQUAL... and I bought a 2018 DSF

[ron_dittmer]

TippleUnduly wrote:
Before deciding on our last two class c's, we drove identical coaches... one on the Ford, the other on a Chevrolet. I am a Ford guy - own two, but the Chevy's handling, ride quality, V8 purr and power with an engine cover that stays cool, higher MPG and cab FOOTroom were so superior, the choice was very easy. But it was not easy to find a C on the Chevy this past year. Fords do dominate, but our Chevy Leprechaun 260DSC has been a very good choice.

Drive 'em both, then decide! Enjoy your choice.

I agree, the Chevy is more refined, but the Ford is not horrible by comparison. Given everything else equal, the Chevy is nicer. But rarely is everything else equal.

Chevy and GM divisions used to offer an attractive RV build package for their cut-away chassis with enhanced exterior styling and other interior appointments and features well enjoyed by RVers. I believe around 2010 when GM killed Pontiac, Saturn, and Hummer, they also killed the RV build package. It seems sometime since, Chevy re-introduced the RV build package, but not GM.

[TippleUnduly]

Before deciding on our last two class c's, we drove identical coaches... one on the Ford, the other on a Chevrolet. I am a Ford guy - own two, but the Chevy's handling, ride quality, V8 purr and power with an engine cover that stays cool, higher MPG and cab FOOTroom were so superior, the choice was very easy. But it was not easy to find a C on the Chevy this past year. Fords do dominate, but our Chevy Leprechaun 260DSC has been a very good choice.

Drive 'em both, then decide! Enjoy your choice.

[AJR]

FWIW, The newer one piece molded cab overs solve leak issues.

The cab over is a great storage area for light bulky things. Like sleeping bags, blankets, linens or even an aluminum ladder. I did not want one. But now that I have one I find it very useful.

[PghBob]

Sarah, to get to the point on one question you asked, "What is OCCC?". All Ford E450 chassis, made in the last few years, can carry a max load of 14500 pounds (GVWR). The difference between the weight of the motor home and all its appliances and options like slide outs, leveling jacks, subtracted from the GVWR equals the amount of weight of people, food, fluids, clothes, and stuff you can carry. For motorhomes, Class A & B included, its not the "room" you have for stuff, but the weight of that stuff that matters.

For short, or local trips, you might not need to carry a lot of stuff. But, for longer trips, or trips spanning lots of time (Snowbirding, or full-timing), you likely will need to carry more stuff, thus requiring a rig with a higher OCCC. This number should be posted in the rig somewhere if a new unit. Do not depend on the sales rep to provide you with accurate info on this. Ask to see the OCCC label or do your own research.

As an example, our Class C has an OCCC of slightly over 2900 pounds. Even on our longest trips (Alaska, 2 transcontinental trips), we have not been near our capacity including four adults. By contrast, at a large RV show a few years ago, we were in a few Class A rigs that would have been overweight with only our family of four on board, no food, water, stuff.

Generally, a shorter Class C has a larger OCCC. Good luck with your search.

[midnightsadie]

bought all our rv,s out of state, not a problem ,go where your heart says to look .

[Desert_Captain]

DrewE wrote:
Most of Desert Captain's suggestions are worthy of consideration, even if one might reasonably disagree with their severity or importance, but I must very much disagree with this one:

Desert Captain wrote:

Look deep into lockers and behind drawers... find particle board/plywood? Run Forrest run!

I rather doubt there is a class C made that does not use plywood or particle board for the basic cabinet carcasses, possibly covered with melamine or some similar surface. The only other options I know of for RVs is some sort of fiberglass, roto-molded plastic, or sheet metal structure, and I think those are only used for outside compartments or on molded fiberglass trailers ("egg trailers" like the Scamp, Casitas, etc.). Sheet metal would tend to be rather noisy when traveling, I suspect, acting something as a cymbal when going over bumps.

Sometimes there is a framework of wood sticks with think plywood or some similar sheet goods for the wall panels, but that's still plywood/particle board.

A plywood cabinet carcass, if well-made, is sturdy and dimensionally stable and a perfectly sound way of building things. Particle board and pressboard and similar products can also be sturdy and stable, but many disintegrate quite rapidly if they get at all wet, which is a distinct disadvantage.

Like I said... opinions vary. There is no particle board, none, zip, nada anywhere in my Nexus. The use of particle board, for the very reason you pointed out, illustrates quite clearly a cheaply built rig. Nexus uses Azdell vs Luan {which is plywood} in its walls and roof. Google Azdell for the many advantages of utilizing this material. Most of the higher end coaches have finally followed Lance and Nexus down this manufacturing path.

I have yet to find any plywood in my coach but rumor has it there may be a sheet under the rear queen though I have never had occasion to look. All of the cabinetry and drawers are made of solid wood, most of it handcrafted Maple {gotta love that Amish craftsmanship}.

Despite all of the junk on the market, there are lots of quality built units to choose from. "Entry Level" is usually salesman speak for a poorly designed and built coach. Coach House, Phoenix Cruiser, Lazy Days, Nexus, Born Free and some of the higher end Winnebago's are just a few of the better-built coaches that can easily be found in the used marketplace where, IMHO, the best values exist.

Find the floor plan that will work well for your intended usage in the best-built rig possible and you cannot go wrong. Once again...

As always.... Opinions and YMMV.

:C

[ron_dittmer]

Sarah,

If you find (or think you found) the ideal motor home for you, ask on this forum and brand-specific forums if there is someone who lives near you, willing to show their rig to you. If convinced it is right for you, then order your rig direct with the factory, and finally fly out to the factory when your rig is ready, and drive it back home.

Irene and I got lucky. We stumbled on the one we wanted at a local RV show. Back then, we ordered our rig from a dealer in Mendon, MA a thousand miles away (called East Acres RV), and picked up our rig at the factory in Elkhart, IN 160 miles away.

New or used, if you can find the right rig at a local RV dealer, that is obviously most convenient. But typically your best used deals will be sold by private party. Craigslist, RV Trader, places like that are great internet shopping websites.

Ron

[ronfisherman]

campkodiak23 wrote:


Curious .. there are some class c's that are mentioned that are not local to my area... what do I do then ?? road trip ? ( sounds silly, but just not sure if people buy something that is just in their part of the country ? or do they seriously take a trip to go buy one ?!?! )
THANK 🙂

I sold my MH to a couple from IN. They drove up over 300 miles one day. Stayed overnight. Completed sale on next day. Drove it home. If you travel out of town to purchase a MH. Plan on 2 days plus travel time to complete sale and get a proper PDI of MH. This applies wether you purchase from a dealer or private.

[campkodiak23]

THANK YOU and keep the ideas / suggestions / recommendations Coming !!!!!

Curious .. there are some class c's that are mentioned that are not local to my area... what do I do then ?? road trip ? ( sounds silly, but just not sure if people buy something that is just in their part of the country ? or do they seriously take a trip to go buy one ?!?! )

thank you ALL ..... I have read and re-read them all. My husband will sit down and read these tonight !!

Keep them coming ....
Sarah !!

THANK 🙂

[ron_dittmer]

Hi Sarah,

This is a lot to read through but you may find it helpful. The chassis specs I post at the end with regards to capability and power, might need a little updating.

Ron
_____________________________________________________________

New, used, or well used, when shopping for a conventional class B+ or C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and also the punishment of the road.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with "Eye Candy" and "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.5 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

#2 SECOND BEST
Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water damage. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans countless times, representing a endless series of earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lesser stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven making it common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. HERE is an example, one of many water-damage threads I have read. Scroll down in that thread to see pictures of the real damage.

The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design HERE eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. The Itasca Navion Here is a fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. Some manufacture models like the Minnie Winnie and the Nexus Phantom utilize a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice compared to a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass as shown HERE that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down to the wall. The overlapping of fiberglass to the wall provides a good water seal and the fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress as seen HERE. The rear wall resembles a shallow rectangular cooking pan standing on it's side. Like the example, some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but that rear wall/cap offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing the adjoining seam work. It helps in keeping the house together.

Don't be fooled. There are a select few manufactures who add rear wall sectional styling pieces over an entry level rear corner seam design which gives the appearance of a 5-sided pan design. You can easily tell by noting the sections & seams between them and the flat back wall that remains exposed.

Bigger Will Be Weaker
The size & floor plan you select MUST FIRST meet your needs before this consideration.
The bigger the house, the weaker the structure will be. Consider two cardboard boxes made from the exact same corrugated material. The smaller box would naturally be stronger. It will be more resistant to bending, twisting, and other types of flexing. So if you are on the fence between models, the smaller one will be your stronger choice.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also the rare exception of the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E350 and E450 with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. Also within this past year is the recent introduction of the Ford Transit. The GM 3500 & 4500 chassis are not popular but are a very good choice for the right application. Any of the chassis mentioned made since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter & Transit will be least powered. People who tow with them naturally take it slower.

If considering a current-day “small” class B+ or C motor home, here is a comparison between the two current main chassis contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Mercedes Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35%-50% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions, you are low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford offers a great backup system. The V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Navion and View. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years on the Sprinter and most recently on the new Ford Transit.

The Ford Transit Chassis
This chassis has the potential to dominate the class B+ & C motor home market in the smaller sizes. According to Ford's website, the Transit DRW chassis is offered in the 156", and 178" wheel base, and is rated as high as 10,360 GVWR. Ford offers a motor home package specific for the RV industry. It's diesel engine compares to the Sprinter in power and fuel economy, but is more affordable and is easily serviced at Ford service centers, just like the E350 & E450. The cab has a much lower stance than the Sprinter making it much more friendly to get into and out from for people in their later years. It's more like a mini-van rather than a standard van. The Transit's lower cab also offers roomier over-head bunks that are easier to access.

The Dodge Promaster 3500 Cut-Away Chassis
This front wheel drive chassis is another recent entry in the RV industry. I am concerned over it's lack of load capability as reflected with single free-wheeling rear wheels. I have been reading posts written by new Promaster RV owners stating they are over-weight with just two people, some personal effects and food. They say they can't carry water and never a 3rd person. I would not be comfortable with such a limited load range in a B+ or C. This chassis does seem to be a good option in the "B" motor home market.

The Chevy 3500 & 4500 Chassis
Unfortunately this chassis is not more popular, primarily because GM sort-of gave up on competing with the Ford E350 & E450. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches in storing your rig, the Chevy is a little longer than the Ford by a number of inches which was critical for us with our garage as seen HERE with our Ford 2007 E350 rig. That could be the reason why the Chevy has a little more interior driver/passenger leg room.

The Ford E350 & E450
The majority of class B+ and C motor homes are built on one of these two chassis for a number of very good reasons. They have more power and load capability than the others. Ford approves outfitters to modify the chassis to increase or decrease the wheel base which supplies motor home companies a lot of design freedom. Ford has off-the-shelf components that work with the wheel base modification. So if you need a new drive shaft, fuel line, brake line, parking brake cable, wire harness, whatever, Ford has them available. Finally, the E350 and E450 chassis is competitively priced.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, MB-Sprinter, Chevy, and Dodge
Ford E350 & E450 - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Ford Transit Diesel - 3.2L-I5, 185hp, 350ft
Mercedes Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy 3500 & 4500 - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
Dodge Promaster - 3.6L-V6 (GVW only 9,300 pounds)

[DrewE]

Most of Desert Captain's suggestions are worthy of consideration, even if one might reasonably disagree with their severity or importance, but I must very much disagree with this one:

Desert Captain wrote:

Look deep into lockers and behind drawers... find particle board/plywood? Run Forrest run!

I rather doubt there is a class C made that does not use plywood or particle board for the basic cabinet carcasses, possibly covered with melamine or some similar surface. The only other options I know of for RVs is some sort of fiberglass, roto-molded plastic, or sheet metal structure, and I think those are only used for outside compartments or on molded fiberglass trailers ("egg trailers" like the Scamp, Casitas, etc.). Sheet metal would tend to be rather noisy when traveling, I suspect, acting something as a cymbal when going over bumps.

Sometimes there is a framework of wood sticks with think plywood or some similar sheet goods for the wall panels, but that's still plywood/particle board.

A plywood cabinet carcass, if well-made, is sturdy and dimensionally stable and a perfectly sound way of building things. Particle board and pressboard and similar products can also be sturdy and stable, but many disintegrate quite rapidly if they get at all wet, which is a distinct disadvantage.

[Desert_Captain]

Could not be happier with our 2012 nexus 23P (24') this after 4.5 years and 41,000+ trouble free miles. The power and reliability, not to mention serviceability of the V -10 powertrain is unmatched.

Look long and hard at how you will actually use your coach and buy the rig that best meets that need. If you are ever going to tow anything get the V-10. Unless you are going to be in a full hook up site every night do not get an on-demand water heater. Spend time in any prospective unit pretending to be living in it. How's the headroom, storage, OCC???

Do you have to make up a bed every night? That will become a huge PITA on night two. Does the bed have a quality innerspring mattress? If not you will regret it. Can you see out? Many units have few and poorly located windows which quickly becomes dreary. How's the ventilation? Power fans, AC and how about the heater? How many BTU's does each put out? {My 24' Class C came with 13,500 BTU AC and a 35,000 BTU furnace both of which have had extensive use}.

Check the galley thoroughly. Can you stand at the stove and actually see what you are cooking without bending over? You would be surprised at how many $150,000 rigs this is not possible and don't get me started on one tiny and one medium burner, no oven and a microwave the size of a shoe box...Arrrg!

Power awning, seats, remote control mirrors are all very nice to have. Fuel, water, black and grey tank capacities need to be checked vs the GVWR of any unit. If you cannot run with full tanks and still be under GVWR it is the wrong coach.

The absence of a one-piece fiberglass roof with solid end caps should be a serious deal
breaker. Look deep into lockers and behind drawers... find particle board/plywood? Run Forrest run!

Lots to consider I hope some of these suggestions are helpful and...

As always.... Opinions and YMMV

:C

[midnightsadie]

HEARD THE TANKLESS HEATERS ARE A PAIN ,THERES A SITE ON HERE SOME WHERE THAT EXPLAINS THE TROUBLES.