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Interesting article: Tesla Semi Electric Motorhome.

Reisender
Nomad
Nomad
63 REPLIES 63

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi Alan,

The answer to your statement is that electric engines can be more than 90% efficient and even up to 98% efficient while combustion engines are 30 to 45% efficient.

Alan_Hepburn wrote:
One thing that few people think about: until somebody can build an electric motor that is 100% efficient there will be a "cost" for running an electric motor. That cost is the inefficiency of the motor, which manifests itself as heat! So, in the end electric motors actually cause global warming!
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Western,

Canada's current Federal government wants to pass a law eliminating single use plastic containers. It may end up costing them re-election. I'm in favor of the ban.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

BB_TX
Nomad
Nomad
Alan_Hepburn wrote:
.........
One thing that few people think about: until somebody can build an electric motor that is 100% efficient there will be a "cost" for running an electric motor. That cost is the inefficiency of the motor, which manifests itself as heat! So, in the end electric motors actually cause global warming!

You think an electric motor gives off nearly as much heat as what comes off a hot internal combustion engine, itโ€™s radiator, itโ€™s exhaust piping, and hot exhaust gases from the tailpipe?

westernrvparkow
Explorer
Explorer
Environmentally friendly legislation would be something along the lines of you can only travel 10 miles from your home and that travel must be human powered (walking, biking, skateboarding etc.) Then eliminate all single use containers. No pre-packaged products of any kind. No ordering products that require delivery. If you can't pick it up and carry it home, you don't need it.
This will eliminate most landfill waste. It will end those nasty environmental destroying items like cars, airplanes, passenger trains, buses, and local delivery trucks. Only vehicular traffic will government approved deliveries to the local markets. The government can easily designate approved products that logistically will do the least amount of environmental damage. No one needs foodstuffs that come from a long distance. We can all live without Alaskan King Crab. Only New Englanders need lobster. Midwesterners can survive on a corn and wheat heavy diet. Who cares if Minnesotans don't get oranges for breakfast.
Shut down every single fossil fueled power plant today. If there isn't enough electricity for everyone, tough. Mankind survived for thousands of years without it. Everyone needs to put on their big boy pants and do their part.
Why do things only part way. I say let's put all our chips on the table and go all in. Sure, it might take us back to the stone age, but that is good because in the stone age there wasn't a global warming crisis that without immediate action we are all doomed to extinction in something like 10 years (AOC, Prince Charles, Al Gore and a host of others who obviously know tell us that is the fact). Come on people, go Luddite. We have a planet to save!!!!

JaxDad
Explorer III
Explorer III
azrving wrote:
If we want to cut emissions, save resources and "save the planet" what the heck would any of us be doing in an RV.

Stop and think about it.


Many, many years ago a Canadian music group of some repute wrote a song that springs to mind given that idea.

Rush - Red Barchetta lyrics.

Reisender
Nomad
Nomad
Rick Jay wrote:
Reisender,

I believe they also may contain cobalt, which is a Hazardous Substance.

~Rick


They contain a bunch of things besides Aluminum but obviously not enough to have them considered hazardous. I donโ€™t think they would ever end up in a landfill though. Aluminum is pricey. Even a can gets you a nickel or a dime in some places.

The life cycle of an EV battery is upwards of 30 years. The first half in a vehicle and the second half in grid or mini grid storage. Lots of good reading on it.

Cobalt free batteries are already being developed. The latest generation of existing batteries uses a lot less cobalt than those of 10 years ago. One of the original founders of Tesla (straubel I believe) has a startup that is recycling and reusing EV batteries. There are a bunch of start ups that are in the works right now. Kinda interesting to follow. All above my head. I just drive the car. :).

Rick_Jay
Explorer II
Explorer II
Reisender,

I believe they also may contain cobalt, which is a Hazardous Substance.

~Rick
2005 Georgie Boy Cruise Master 3625 DS on a Workhorse W-22
Rick, Gail, 1 girl (27-Angel since 2008), 1 girl (22), 2 boys (23 & 20).
2001 Honda Odyssey, Demco Aluminator tow bar & tow plate, SMI Silent Partner brake controller.

Reisender
Nomad
Nomad
rgatijnet1 wrote:
I believe that disposing of the old batteries can be a huge environmental headache.
I can also see the value of this RV decreasing quickly with time and that it may be difficult to unload once it gets close to battery replacement time. The cost for the new batteries and for disposal of the old batteries MAY exceed the total value of the coach.


I donโ€™t understand the environmental headache statement. Maybe if it was a lead acid battery but a lithium ion battery is mostly aluminum. Not considered to be hazardous.

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Similarly a Sprinter Class C might require motor repairs that exceed the total value of the RV.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

rgatijnet1
Explorer III
Explorer III
I believe that disposing of the old batteries can be a huge environmental headache.
I can also see the value of this RV decreasing quickly with time and that it may be difficult to unload once it gets close to battery replacement time. The cost for the new batteries and for disposal of the old batteries MAY exceed the total value of the coach.

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
Alan_Hepburn wrote:
One thing that few people think about: until somebody can build an electric motor that is 100% efficient there will be a "cost" for running an electric motor. That cost is the inefficiency of the motor, which manifests itself as heat! So, in the end electric motors actually cause global warming!
Not with renewable power. Just completes the natural thermodynamic cycle when the power comes from wind, solar, hydro.

Right now as I post... renewables are providing over 50% of the electricity in CA. This percentage is growing every year. Zero % coal BTW. Nationwide coal is dropping every year.

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx

Bruce_Brown
Moderator
Moderator
way2roll wrote:
I can't get on the electric vehicle bandwagon. In the little research I've done they aren't really as eco friendly as they would have you think. To manufacture - especially the batteries - the waste and materials used to make them are pretty caustic and not eco friendly at all. And electricity still has to be produced to charge the car. You've only shifted where the pollution and emissions comes from.


Careful now - you're letting the facts get in the way of a good story!

Years ago I owned a Ford Focus ST that was a PZEV (partial zero emission vehicle). Going from memory here, so it might be a little skewed but the point is valid; Car & Driver did a test on it at the time and on the bad greenhouse gasses, it produced fewer bad gases per mile than a fully electric vehicle charged off the California grid.

While electric may be zero emissions, the plants that produce it aren't.
There are 24 hours in every day - it all depends on how you choose to use them.
Bruce & Jill Brown
2008 Kountry Star Pusher 3910

Alan_Hepburn
Explorer
Explorer
way2roll wrote:

The argument against EV cars isn't about whether it's crazy or that it won't catch on, it's about the claim that they are better for the environment. Despite claiming to be Eco friendly with less emissions and leveraging that for marketing, the fact is they aren't really as Eco friendly as they would have you believe.


One thing that few people think about: until somebody can build an electric motor that is 100% efficient there will be a "cost" for running an electric motor. That cost is the inefficiency of the motor, which manifests itself as heat! So, in the end electric motors actually cause global warming!
----------------------------------------------
Alan & Sandy Hepburn driving a 2007 Fleetwood Bounder 35E on a Workhorse chassis - Proud to be a Blue Star Family!
Good Sam Member #566004

FloridaRosebud
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
I love the self driving aspect. How lovely to start out at night, sleep, and wake up at the destination the next morning.


Didn't they use to call that a train? ๐Ÿ˜‰

Al

way2roll
Navigator
Navigator
BillyBob Jim wrote:
way2roll wrote:

I'm not hot on the continuation of dependency on fossil fuels either, but the approach to developmen...


Now THAT is the ticket! :B

Jeff - 2023 FR Sunseeker 2400B MBS