INTERMITTENT 12 VOLT LOSS

[Edouard]

It began after buying 2 new Interstate (6 volt?) Group 24 Deep Cycle replacements for our 6 year old Trojan 105 6 volts.

Told the clerk in SC Boat/Rv store, we needed 2x6 volt Deep Cell, she quoted 89$ each.

Brought in our old Trojan T-105 6'volt's, they unloaded them from dolly, and popped 2 new group 24`s on the counter, I told them the battery posts were inline, ours were diagonal, they said so long as your wiring reaches, should be no problem.

I noticed later after checking voltage on a single battery that it has 6 wet cell ports, never dawned on me till then, bought last 6 volts over 15 years ago...

I did check the labels, there were no indication of voltage's, so I proceeded and installed them in the same series as the 6 volts.

400 miles down the road, we stopped for the night and noticed the Zantrex 10 Freedom was showing battery`s low and need charging, took me until the next morning to remove the battery wires to check the voltage on on battery, shocked it read 12.6 volt!, I had run almost 24 hours with 24 volts hooked up, yikes!

I was getting 12.5 across the two 12's joined in the same sequence as the Trojan 6 volts, nothing on the invoice indicated the voltage, only Group 24 and deep cell.

Stopped in at Interstate Syracuse, NY store, they were very surprised at how that could happen, but they nicely gave us full credit against the correct 6 volt Group 24's, cost us 40$ more plus tax for the pair, & installed them for us.

Now the ongoing problem is this, when running down the road on the single 12 volt (removed the other when finding the issue) everything worked providing 12 volt, but inverter could not provide power to the refer, so we left it on LP, however, now with the 2 x 6's, that is working fine. So appears the inverter was well protected & not damaged.

When we stop the chassis engine, the 12 volt continues to provide the house, but in about 30 to 60 minutes, the battery disconnect light goes out & will not return till we start the chassis engine.

If we start the generator while the battery disconnect light is still red, and chassis engine is on, it runs for ever going down the road, but once we turn off the engine it runs for about a minute and then cuts out when the battery disconnect light goes off.

When the chassis alternator is providing the 12 volt, and even after we shut off the engine and turn off the battery disconnect (also, while the red light is still lit) and back on several times it appears to function as usual, disconnecting and re-connecting the 12 volt.

Anyway, I replaced the battery 4 post disconnect today, did not correct the issue. (30$ lost!)

We'll be home tomorrow and I'll have more time to test power to the 4 post solenoid I replaced to see if house voltage is reaching it when the red light is on or off.

It appears now it's something between the batteries and the solenoid.

Does anyone have any idea how to find the 12 volt shut down issue, obviously caused by the 24 volt load, the issue appears to only occur when relying only on the house batteries?

[Edouard]

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR INPUT.

I did some testing in the battery compartment and found the house battery HI AMP BUSS 150A / WATERPROOF / CB185-150...

IT HAD A READING SIMILAR TO THE BATTERY READING. THE PLASTIC ARM
APPEARS TO HAVE BROKEN OFF AND WAS MISSING, I REMOVED THE HI AMP 150A BUSS FROM IT'S LOCATION, REMOVED THE 2 POSITIVE WIRES AND FOUND THAT
THERE IS A PLASTIC GEARED PIN THAT I ROTATED BACK IN AS THE PLASTIC ARM WOULD DO, AND VOILA....WE HAVE EVERYTHING WORKING AS DESIGNED.

WHEN I CHECK THE SIMILAR BUSS FOR THE CHASSIS BATTERY, IT HAD NO READING UNLESS I PRESSED THE RESET AND THE PLASTIC ARM SWUNG OUT, PUSH THE PLASTIC ARM IN, THEN NO READING.

It appears then when I put the positive cable on with 24 volts it must
have engaged/disengaged the breaker, but did not show because the plastic arm was already missing.

Therefore, we did not travel all day with 24 volts in the house system, only the chassis battery was functioning, thank god, we're so lucky to have that battery Hi Amp breaker do it's job right away.

Again, thanks everyone so much for your assistance in getting my brain gears going.

Eugene.

[Edouard]

Dale.Traveling wrote:
I suspect you might have damaged house battery voltage sensing circuit in the battery control center.
A) HOW DO I LOCATE THIS 'SENSING CIRCUIT' AND HOW WOULD I TEST IT? ASSUME THE BATTERY CONTROL CENTER IS IN INVERT/CONVERT/CHARGE AREA?

This circuit controls the battery disconnect solenoids and the cross connect to get power from the engine. Need to know the manufacture, model and revision number for a better idea what and where to check.

A) RIG IS A NATIONAL DOLPHIN 35 2008 , THE INVERT/CONVERT/CHARGE UNIT IS A XANTREX FREEDOM 10, IS THIS WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR?

One thing to try is next time you lose house 12VDC hit the AUX Start switch (with the engine off) and see if the lights come back on.

A) JUST DID THIS AND YES IT TURNED THE BATTERY DISCONECT LIGHT AND 12
VOLT IS BACK.

Really surprised the fridge controller didn't cook and it still operated on LP. Would have been interesting if you had tried to extend a slide (assuming they are electric and not hydraulic).

A) YES THE FRIDGE IS FUNCTIONING ON BOTH PROPANE AND AC FROM INVERT/CONVERT/CHARGER WHILE ENGINE RUNNING AND PLUGGED IN TO LAND POWER. ALL IS GOOD THERE, AND YES BOTH SLIDES ARE FUNCTIONING AS USUAL.

I JUST NOTED THAT AFTER THE 12 VOLT DISCONNECT LIGHT GOES OUT, THE INVERT UNIT CONTINUES TO RUN WITH COOLING FAN, SHUTS DOWN AND IN A MOMENT IT RESUMES AND KICKS BACK TO CHARGING 13.43 VOLTS TO THE HOUSE BATTERIES. THIS IS WHILE PLUGGED INTO SHORE POWER.

REALLY APPRECIATE THE ASSISTANCE. EUGENE.

[Edouard]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

I had the misfortune to have someone install a battery incorrectly. It blew the reverse polarity fuses on the converter. It also caused 12 volt fuse for the inverter to fail.

I got very very lucky.

Thanks, I will look into both the reverse polarity fuses, my 12 volt fuses are the push in type, all are in and not jumped, however there is no 12 volt inverter fuse there, will try to fine that now in the inverter compartment. thanks so much, Eugene.

[Edouard]

Jagtech wrote:
Are the new batteries actually taking a charge? Check the voltage at the battery terminals with the engine running, to see if they are charging (13.25-14.5 volts) total across the pair of batteries.

Just checked, the house bat's are not taking charge with engine running, it's showing 12.5 volts, the simple switch in the hall panel is showing 14.5 volts on both chassis and house side, so no charge is
reaching house bat's. Thank so much for assisting, Eugene.

[Edouard]

RoyB wrote:
Unless fuses have protected your 12VDC items you may have several surprises once you start looking at all of your connected 12VDC items.

This is a typical 30AMP wiring configuration showing what is connected to the 12VDC Power Distribution Panel. Hopefully the 12VDC fuses blowed on this 12VDC distribution panel... You will need to find at least all of these items that are connected to the 12VDC Distribution Panels and check them. If those items were not turned on by you when connected to the 24VDC they should be ok. The DETECTOR boards for the fridge, furnace, CO detector, etc are most likely blown as they are connected to 12VDC all the time. If you turned on the ceiling lights they may have burned out on you.



Would be interesting to know what you found...

wishing you good luck on what you may find...

Roy ken

Thank you Roy ken for your input, well it appears we did not damage any of the items you mentioned, our fridge ran all day going down the road with 24 volts, and is still fine on the new 6 volt bat's, as are
the ceiling lights, co detector, hot water heater, furnace, all electronic's etc.,
have not found anything that does not function, except as mentioned the disconnect switch goes out sometime after turning off the chassis engine/alternator.

Just plugged into 30 amp at home, after shutting down, and within moments the disconnect light went out, so no 12 volt to the house, same reaction as running gen-set without chassis running.

The coach is an 08 National Dolphin, the Invertor/charger is Xantrex Freedom 10, what exactly is it you are asking for.?

Really appreciate your assistance. Eugene.

[Dale_Traveling]

I suspect you might have damaged house battery voltage sensing circuit in the battery control center. This circuit controls the battery disconnect solenoids and the cross connect to get power from the engine. Need to know the manufacture, model and revision number for a better idea what and where to check. One thing to try is next time you lose house 12VDC hit the AUX Start switch (with the engine off) and see if the lights come back on.

Really surprised the fridge controller didn't cook and it still operated on LP. Would have been interesting if you had tried to extend a slide (assuming they are electric and not hydraulic).

[pianotuna]

Hi,

I had the misfortune to have someone install a battery incorrectly. It blew the reverse polarity fuses on the converter. It also caused 12 volt fuse for the inverter to fail.

I got very very lucky.

[Jagtech]

Are the new batteries actually taking a charge? Check the voltage at the battery terminals with the engine running, to see if they are charging (13.25-14.5 volts) total across the pair of batteries.

[RoyB]

Unless fuses have protected your 12VDC items you may have several surprises once you start looking at all of your connected 12VDC items.

This is a typical 30AMP wiring configuration showing what is connected to the 12VDC Power Distribution Panel. Hopefully the 12VDC fuses blowed on this 12VDC distribution panel... You will need to find at least all of these items that are connected to the 12VDC Distribution Panels and check them. If those items were not turned on by you when connected to the 24VDC they should be ok. The DETECTOR boards for the fridge, furnace, CO detector, etc are most likely blown as they are connected to 12VDC all the time. If you turned on the ceiling lights they may have burned out on you.



Would be interesting to know what you found...

wishing you good luck on what you may find...

Roy ken