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Motorhome brake upgrade

Kluckraft
Explorer
Explorer
I have a 40' 2002 Beaver Santiam. I have never been entirely pleased with its braking capability. We are about to travel to the 5 National Parks in Utah and I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to how I might improve on my motorhomers braking capability so I can handle the long downgrades with more confidence. By the way, my tow is equipped with Air Force One. Thanks for your help.

Ken
25 REPLIES 25

FIRE_UP
Explorer
Explorer
Kluckraft wrote:
Thanks. I do have an exhaust brake which helps a lot, and I have hade the pads and air recently checked. The problem I have is on long, steep descents the brakes get very hot (smoking hot), and begin to fade. This is with the exhaust brake on and in low gear. I was wondering if maybe there are any enhancements I could make. Perhaps high performance brake pads etc. thanks again,

Ken


Ken
It's certainly not my place here to tell you, or anyone on here how to drive or, ascend or descend hills or grades. We all learn through either practical experience or maybe some qualified teachers of some sort. But, with all that being said, and based on just how you stated and described your issue(s), it kind of sounds like you may be approaching some of your grades/hills with too much speed and, you're having to work your rig too hard to slow it down.

Again, not chastising you here, just trying to assess your situation and trying to help with a possible solution. On certain hills/switch backs/grades etc. our brakes start to heat up a tad too. As you do, I also use the exhaust brake as much as possible. If a grade is long and steep enough on the descent, I kind-a do like the truckers do and just put it in a lower gear at the top, let the e-brake do it's thing and, I just put the 4-way flashers on and slowly go down the grade.

As much as I drove fire trucks for over thirty years, again, it's not my place to tell you what you may be doing wrong, if anything. Sometimes brakes just heat up, it's a fact of life. We all do as much as possible to minimize that but, sometimes, it can't be helped. That's why they make them replaceable.

One of the nice items we had on our fire trucks was called, a "Telma" retarder. No, it's not a transmission retarder. It's an electromagnetic, non-contact auxiliary braking system. Now, you talk about some stopping power, it don't get any better than that.

Basically it's two disc brakes, mounted on the differential/drive shaft. And, there's a double set of huge coils mounted on a stationary mount, within approximately 1/16th of those rotating discs. We have a lever on the dash. It's about 5" long and four detents in its movement. Pull that lever down one detent and you start to feel the "extra" braking take effect. Move it another detent and you feel quite a bit more.

Move it to the third detent and you're slowing at a pretty fair rate. Move it to the fourth detent and you're almost against the steering wheel. And, like stated, there's absolutely no contact, no friction of any type and yet, you're slowing down like you're on the service brakes with some gusto. The only issue is, it takes some serious amps to activate that retarder. Now, couple that Telma retarder with a fully active, 3-stage Jake brake and, you have some phenomenal braking power and, you never touch the service brakes until you're at about 3 mph or lower.

So, anyway, maybe a slower approach to the grades and, using lower gears against the e-brake may help. I'm not sure you can do anything to your stock brakes to enhance their operation. There are different compounds which will be more gummy and have different coefficient of friction but, not sure if you'd want those or not.

When we tried those on the FD, they wore out pretty quickly. Anyway, good luck on your endeavor to improve your braking capability.
Scott
Scott and Karla
SDFD RETIRED
2004 Itasca Horizon, 36GD Slate Blue 330 CAT
2011 GMC Sierra 1500 Ext Cab 4x4 Toad
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wny_pat1
Explorer
Explorer
Kluckraft wrote:
I do have an exhaust brake which helps a lot,
Do you have a exhaust brake or a engine brake (Jacobs engine brake)? If you have a exhaust brake, you can upgrade to a Pac PRXB exhaust brake. Its design delivers the strongest braking horsepower, greatest speed reductions and shortest stopping distances possible across the rpm range without the use of service brakes. But if you have a engine Jake brake, forget everything I just said, cause the engine brake is better.

But as others have said, it sounds like you have glazed your brake pads and need to learn how to stab brake. Overheating and riding your brakes will do nothing but end up getting you into trouble, and endangering those with and around you.
“All journeys have secret destinations of which the traveler is unaware.”

Gamoore
Explorer
Explorer
I do the same as jorbill2or when I need too. However, when I am in the correct gear with the exhaust break on I rarely need to use the service brakes on a grade. In the 13 years and 80,000 miles of driving this motorhome all over the US and Canada I have never overheated the brakes.
Diesel Driver
2001 37' Harney Renegade Classic
330 HP CAT
2014 Chevy Malibu LTZ

jorbill2or
Explorer II
Explorer II
I agree
Never ride the brakes . You will overheat them! the fact you say they were overheated indicates the problem.
Proper method is use the exhaust brake .. Manually downshift how much depends on how Streep and how fast you are going .. The computer won't llet the transmission go into too low a gear.
Now .. Use stab braking .. Pick the speed you want,as max , say 40 .. Brake firmly until your under 30 -35 then release the brakes totally!!!!! ... When your up to 40 repeat the process hard firm braking and release you shouldn't have the brakes on more than 20 % of the time I would think . Give it a try .. You'll find downhill much more pleasant .
Bill

stuplich
Explorer
Explorer
justlou wrote:
if you overheated the brakes you may have glazed the drums or shoes. This will cause reduced braking capability. Take your coach to a good truck brake center and have them checked. With an exhaust brake and proper transmission use you should never overheat your brakes to the point of smoking.


justlou
Correct!

Kluckraft
To prevent overheating, glazing, smoking and/or ruining your brakes when descending a grade....NEVER RIDE THE BRAKES!

If/when you need to slow down more than downshifting and the exhaust brake can handle, simply apply the service brakes FIRMLY until the coach slows to a comfortable speed... then RELEASE them... (repeat as necessary).

Mel
'96 Safari

Dog_Trainer
Explorer
Explorer
This may or may not help but here is how I handle the steep grades in my MH. I have a 35' diesel with air brakes and Exhaust brake. I am smaller and I am sure less weight than you when towing I am using the ready brake.
My 1st thing is to measure the gear I climb certain grades in on a 6% grade I am often in 2nd gear. When I top the grade I shift the Allison into 2nd and engage the EB on the decent I watch the RPM and as it gets close to max and to the point where My Allison will shift to the next gear, I stab the brake and hold it until I drop below my Sweet spot (RPM) and then release the brake pedal. Again repeating the same procedure until I can upshift or release the EB completely. There are a number of EB's out there and each works a little differently. On the other hand if you have a larger Motor you may have a Jake type brake which is different. There Have been improvements in the EB's in the last few years and if you are using one of the older EB's you may want to look at an upgrade. I guess I can't help you on what may bee available for brake pad enhancements. I can say that my rear brakes were just changed for the 1st time at 98,000 miles the mechanic stated that they were not completely worn out but that it was time for a new set of shoes. That tells me that my brakes were being used properly and as about 60% of those miles were in the mountains I did well. I changed the fronts at about 60,000 miles after a rotor hung up. Call the maf. of your EB and explain your concerns and what you have seen maybe they could suggest an upgrade. I do know that riding the brakes instead of stabbing will cause more heat. Good luck and welcome to the forum I am sure you will get some good feedback to your question.
2016 Newmar Baystar 3401
2011 HHR Toad
Daktari & Lydia Cavalier King Charles , Annie get your guns, our English setter (fur Bearing Children)

justlou
Explorer
Explorer
if you overheated the brakes you may have glazed the drums or shoes. This will cause reduced braking capability. Take your coach to a good truck brake center and have them checked. With an exhaust brake and proper transmission use you should never overheat your brakes to the point of smoking.
justlou
2006 Monaco Diplomat
2014 Honda CR-V AWD

Kluckraft
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks. I do have an exhaust brake which helps a lot, and I have hade the pads and air recently checked. The problem I have is on long, steep descents the brakes get very hot (smoking hot), and begin to fade. This is with the exhaust brake on and in low gear. I was wondering if maybe there are any enhancements I could make. Perhaps high performance brake pads etc. thanks again,

Ken

mtrumpet
Explorer
Explorer
If you're unfamiliar with the Air Brake Test, here it is. This is the standard proceedure. (This was posted by foosh1 here on the forum back on 3/2/10)


1) Start vehicle and let pressure build up to proper level (usually 120 psi)

2) Leave parking brake engaged, put trannie in D and gently press the accelerator. It's called a tug test, and parking brake should hold the vehicle.

3) Stop engine, but leave key in whatever position that allows you to read your air pressure gauges, chock vehicle if necessary and release parking brake.

4) Press brake pedal very hard and start timing one minute. Watch gauges and check to see you don't lose more than 3 PSI in one minute (4 psi for a combo vehicle). Listen for leaks.

5) Start pumping the brake pedal rapidly, and you'll hear air bleeding off. When PSI drops below a certain level a warning buzzer should sound, and when it drops a little lower the parking brake will automatically pop out. (This is a safety feature that allows you to stop if you were to lose your service brakes).

6) You're done.

NOTE! It is very important that you NEVER press on the brake pedal hard while the parking brakes are engaged. You could damage the springs that operate the parking brake system!!
Mark & Cherie
2002 Newmar Dutch Star DP 3872, Cummins 350 ISC, Spartan Chassis

mtrumpet
Explorer
Explorer
When you say, "I have never been entirely pleased with its braking capability." Could you please be a little more specific? Are they not stopping the coach properly?

There are a lot of knowledgeable people here that may be able to assist, but they will need a bit more info to go on in order to determine what your brake problem might be. What chassis do you have? Have you performed an air brake test? Is your air system functioning properly?
Mark & Cherie
2002 Newmar Dutch Star DP 3872, Cummins 350 ISC, Spartan Chassis

John_Wayne
Explorer II
Explorer II
Don't you have an exhaust brake of some type, that would be the best way to control down hill speed.
John & Carol Life members
01 31'Sea View single slide, F53 V-10 with 134,000 miles and counting.
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