P32 New Coil Springs Too Much?

[1969SSCamaro]

Hello All,
I am new to Class A MH ownership and want to thank everyone who runs and participates in this forum. I have spent untold hours researching forums and the amount of information and detail is greatly appreciated. My learning curve has literally been accelerated by years as I am able to understand common problems and weaknesses of the P32 chassis; so thank you very much!

A couple of months ago my wife and I purchased a 27’ 1995 Georgie Boy Pursuit with 37,000 miles. It has 454 TBI engine with front disc brakes and rear drum. The GVWR is 12,300, front GAWR is 4,880, rear GAWR is 10,000. Initial measured weights (me, wife, daughter, but no supplies, minimal fuel, water, etc) with 2,360lb horse trailer (no horse) in tow are: Front = 4,220, RV total = 11,800, RV+ trailer = 14,200. The chassis is 159” wheelbase; P31432.

Last week I completed the installation of Moog lower ball joints, new brake pads, brake bleed and Stengel Bros coil springs (PN 350-6560SD). The springs are rated at 3789 lbs each. I made a Guestimate that the stock springs were rated at 2789 lbs (??) and purchased these springs hoping to get rid of the airbags and gain an inch or two in lift. I ended up with a little over 3” of lift and now concerned that these springs are too much and will have to be replaced with 3289lb springs instead. My current/wishful thinking is to continue with rear end work/inspection/measurements and once complete, load her up for real; right now my wife has gutted the inside for renovation, so it will be a while before I can test drive it. I measured the suspension clearances after the new coils were installed and have RR = 4-1/8” , LR=4-1/2”, RF = 5-1/8”, LF = 5-1/4”. The chassis/frame currently sets about dead level, but it is not loaded at all, not to mention the horse trailer. Per the “P Chassis for Motorhomes General Information for Alignment, 5” is the max height listed in the table to determine proper caster. Am I dreaming that the 5+” of height could be okay? Comments, advice and experience welcome…………………

For reference, work completed to date includes; new oil, water and trans temp gauges, hitch reinforcement, trailer connector and wiring, front/rear sway bar bushings, Dale deep trans pan, radiator flush, SS bell crank, steering damper, brake pads, repack wheel bearings, thermostat and hoses. Work still planned includes; oil change, inspect spark plugs/wires, new master cylinder (mine is pile of rust)/fluid flush, rear brakes, brake controller installation, rear-end fluid change, shackle bushings, drum brake job, power steering fluid change and finally front-end alignment.

Thanks, Greg

[1969SSCamaro]

tropical36 wrote:

Ozlander wrote:
I wouldn't worry about the front springs until you get the unit ready to go. Springs are known to sag with age, not get longer.
If, when finished, you feel the rear is to low, you can add a leaf to the rear springs to raise it.

Thing is and again with repeating myself, the ride height distance between the stops have to be between 1 3/4 - 2 1/2" to even align a P32 MH chassis and a good honest shop will turn you away. Henderson coils even come with an alignment spec. sheet.

Tropical,
I have been relying on the doc below. It seems to be very thorough and details what should be inspected/measured before an alignment is done and points out some of the
http://users.sisna.com/cebula/P-Chassis-AlignmentProcess.pdf

[1969SSCamaro]

Mike Hohnstein wrote:
Maybe I missed scanning the thread but did you think about WEIGHING the front axle?? With and with out the trailer on the hitch? Not difficult to do and should be the first order of business.

That was one of the first things I did; front weighed in at 4220 (GAWR = 4800) with the horse trailer. I do not have a weight w/o trailer.

[mike_brez]

Henderson alignment Specs

[Mike_Hohnstein]

Maybe I missed scanning the thread but did you think about WEIGHING the front axle?? With and with out the trailer on the hitch? Not difficult to do and should be the first order of business.

[topflite51]

As I recall, most P chassis hitches in the 94 to 97 range were 350/3500.

[tropical36]

1969SSCamaro wrote:
bsinmich,
I have not actually measured the tongue weight, but using the general assumption of 10% of trailer weight, it could range from 300-400lbs with fully loaded horse trailer. Since my chassis is only 27', the fram extension is pretty short (about 24") and the hitch shop welded part of the extension to the frame for additional strength and added additional reinforcement to the hitch. I think I am okay with these mods and reinforcement???? But, that doesn't mean I won't be nervous towing fully loaded trailer. I wish I could find specs on max hitch weight the MH is rated for.

Hitch specs should be on the receiver itself or maybe even in the owners manual and with most being 5000/500lbs. Doubt seriously if you'll tear it off of there and even if, it won't happen all at once, so if all else fails, keep a close eye on it for awhile with frequent checks.

[tropical36]

Ozlander wrote:
I wouldn't worry about the front springs until you get the unit ready to go. Springs are known to sag with age, not get longer.
If, when finished, you feel the rear is to low, you can add a leaf to the rear springs to raise it.

Thing is and again with repeating myself, the ride height distance between the stops have to be between 1 3/4 - 2 1/2" to even align a P32 MH chassis and a good honest shop will turn you away. Henderson coils even come with an alignment spec. sheet.

[Ozlander]

I wouldn't worry about the front springs until you get the unit ready to go. Springs are known to sag with age, not get longer.
If, when finished, you feel the rear is to low, you can add a leaf to the rear springs to raise it.

[1969SSCamaro]

bsinmich,
I have not actually measured the tongue weight, but using the general assumption of 10% of trailer weight, it could range from 300-400lbs with fully loaded horse trailer. Since my chassis is only 27', the fram extension is pretty short (about 24") and the hitch shop welded part of the extension to the frame for additional strength and added additional reinforcement to the hitch. I think I am okay with these mods and reinforcement???? But, that doesn't mean I won't be nervous towing fully loaded trailer. I wish I could find specs on max hitch weight the MH is rated for.

[bsinmich]

How heavy is the tongue on the horse trailer? With frame extensions on MHs there is a limit on tongue weights as well as trailer weights. You shouldn't be that heavily loaded on tongue weight to lift your front end. We had a P30 on our '96 Pace Arrow and liked the adjustability of the air bags. We had a gauge under the hood with the filler right there and lines to the bags. Worked great.

[1969SSCamaro]

Gjac,
I have not contacted Stengel Bros yet, but plan to ask them about swapping springs so I at least know all the options. Prior to purchasing I asked Stengel Bros for their recommendation; he told me to purchase the SDM (super duty max - 4289lb each). I felt like that would be too much spring for a GAWR of 4880 and backed off to 3789lb springs, but even that appears to be on the edge of too much and the 3289 would have been better fit. I may be fine, but spending the extra $ for Henderson springs seems like it would have been better option and peace of mind knowing I got the proper spring rate.

[Gjac]

Greg have you discussed this ride height with Stengal Bros? Will they swap out your springs for no cost? Can the axle on the horse trailer be shifted forward to reduce the tongue weight on the back? A good alignment shop could tell you if x ride height was added to the rear how much that would remove from the front. Shims, airbags or a new leaf could be added to the rear.

[mike_brez]

If you weigh the front end and get the correct springs there is no need for the bags. Also if you get them directly from Henderson John can/ will hand pick you out a pair.

[1969SSCamaro]

Jim,
I was hoping to run it w/o airbags as it's one less thing to maintain/fail. I read several posts of owners that did the same and really liked the end result. My wife will occasionally be driving this on her own with the trailer (scares the hell out of me!), so I am also trying to reduce the number of items to check each time the gas tank is filled.

[JimM68]

If it's an option and the supplier will swap out the springs, I'd go with the 3200's now.

Also, why not leave the airbags in?
Some adjustment is always nice to have