Real-life maintenance costs on a small B+

[coolmom42]

Just looking for some info from those who have done it.

Possibly next year I'm going to seriously start looking for a B+ in the 21-24', 10-15 yr old, 30K-60K miles, & $20-$30K range. From what I've seen of actual "sold" prices on Ebay & PPL this is do-able. There are some out there that meet my criteria now but finances & other factors are not ready yet, so I'm waiting a while. If there are deals out there now, there will be deals out there later.

I'm not set on any one brand (do want a Ford or Chevy chassis) but rather will look for the best maintained, reasonably priced option within a 10-12 hour drive of my home in Tennessee.

My plan is to have the purchase price + taxes, registration, insurance, + about $5k contingency for needed repairs and possibly some upgrades.

For those of you with this type unit.... what are your long-term maintenance costs? Assuming I start with all systems in working order, maintain them, and drive it about 5K-6K miles a year, what is reasonable to plan for in the future?

[ron_dittmer]

coolmom42 wrote:
I won't have a totally enclosed location, but mostly enclosed. Definitely will keep off ice, snow, pouring rain, hail, and other RV enemies.

It's close enough to the house that I can run an extension cord for a dehumidifier, which is very important in TN. Also can run a small space heater in the winter.

I agree a climate controlled storage is ideal!

It sounds like you've got a great plan, doing it very well. That $1000 & dehumidifier will pay back half your $30k investment and avoid a lot of headache too. It will keep the experience in owning a motor home a joy rather than a burden.

[coolmom42]

I won't have a totally enclosed location, but mostly enclosed. Definitely will keep off ice, snow, pouring rain, hail, and other RV enemies.

It's close enough to the house that I can run an extension cord for a dehumidifier, which is very important in TN. Also can run a small space heater in the winter.

I agree a climate controlled storage is ideal!

[ron_dittmer]

coolmom42 wrote:
....planning to store in a covered shed on my property--about $1K initial setup cost there....

Good for you! In my opinion, storing the rig under a roofed structure will make a huge difference in preservation & maintenance. If totally enclosed and kept cool & dry, that is better yet.

I have stored our motor homes and collector's cars inside our heated garage (here near Chicago) and it makes a monumental difference in maintenance & preservation. If you can swing it, it is well worth it.

Our 2007 rig is over 8 years old now. If not for the earlier Ford E350 styling along with a little carpet trampling, people would think it's a new rig. It still smells like new inside because of the cooler summer temps in our partial underground garage with house above, and heated dry air all winter too.

[coolmom42]

Good points about the depreciation, storage, and insurance costs. Most people don't think about that.

I'm planning to buy in the under $30K range, so depreciation won't be a huge hit, and insurance will be cheaper. Also planning to store in a covered shed on my property--about $1K initial setup cost there, but no storage fees.

I should be able to do most of the house maintenance myself, and as you said, chassis maintenance depends on miles. I expect to spend a chunk up front for preventive/catchup maintenance, unless I get detailed service records with the RV.

[tatest]

Are you asking about the chassis or the house?

Chassis maintenance is mileage dependent, and costs are not much different than a pickup, full size van or SUV, on severe duty schedule. 5000 mile oil and filter changes, 30K to 50K on transmission fluid, similar range on OEM shock absorbers.

House maintenance depends on how the house is constructed, how much the RV is used, how long it is stored, how it is stored.

House batteries might last 5 years or more if regularly used, properly charged, not excessively discharge, but might not make three years if boiled away by improper charging or repeatedly and excessively discharged in storage. Very small loads can destroy lead-acid batteries in long term storage, by discharging way beyond design limits.

Similarly, if your house construction depends on caulked seams protecting a structure assembled from flat panels, inspection maintenance of that caulking might need to be frequent if the RV is used continuously or stored in the open exposed to rain and sunlight, as compared to indoor storage. This is a task that is labor intensive, can be expensive if you pay someone to do it. Rubber seals, awning materials have similar weather exposure issues, an awning might last 5 years, or it might last 20 years, depending on exposure.

Ron Dittmer pretty well covers the construction issues. There are construction methods with low build costs and high maintenance requirements, and there are high cost constructions that are almost maintenance free, with a spectrum between.

House stuff like furnaces, water heaters, refrigerators probably do better in continuous use as opposed to infrequent use mixed with long periods of storage. I've seen absorption refrigeration units in continuous use for 40-60 years with little or no maintenance (it is a dominant technology for industrial refrigeration) yet RV fridges can go bad with a few years of storage mixed with occasional use.

Over 10 years and 30,000 miles , I've spent $2000 on tires, $600 on brakes, $500 replacing awning material and a couple of vent covers, about $500 on oil and transmission fluid changed, $400 for two sets of house batteries and one chassis battery (another likely soon). Most of the house maintenance I've done myself, tinkering at camp and before and after each trip, less than $500 for parts and materials (like caulking) but I've probably put in 200 hours labor (rate today is usually over $100) so add $20,000 if you don't DIY.

Maintenance costs have been the smaller part of ownership costs, which have included about $30,000 depreciation (maybe more, haven't checked for a couple of years), $6000 for ten years insurance, about $40,000 lost earnings over 10 years on the $60,000 I spent for the thing, a little short of $10,000 for 30,000 miles worth of fuel and $7200 to store it when I'm not using it.

When considering the economics of RVing, you have to look beyond the small things like maintenance.

[coolmom42]

ron.dittmer wrote:
Two or three years ago we were at Glacier staying 12 nights in and around the park. Ten nights were in the Rising Sun camp ground. The other two were in a nearby national forest to the south. That year we decided to leave the tow vehicle home which turned out to be a bad idea. We stayed so long because the weather was unusually perfect which had us taking more hikes and sights, often utilizing the bus service which was good considering it is bus service, but inefficient compared to your own car. At the end of a 14 mile hike, we (and many others) missed the last scheduled bus. It was a very long wait for a ride from an unscheduled bus during a time when we were so very exhausted.

Our motor home is 23'-8" end to end which restricted us from one other road in the south-east area near Two Medicine which was no issue at all given there was an alternate route available.

It was one of our better vacations. The good weather made all the difference. We planned for 3-4 nights in Glacier assuming the weather would be an issues as in past visits. It is a beautiful park in the right weather.

Yep the bus service is great in some ways and not in others. I just really can't deal with the crowds, and waiting.

My next trip will either be early-mid June, about the time Logan Pass opens, or after Labor Day. Hard to choose. I would love to see the snow at Logan Pass but Glacier can also be cold and rainy that early. September is nice but also a higher risk of fire season, and things are not so green.

[ron_dittmer]

Two or three years ago we were at Glacier staying 12 nights in and around the park. Ten nights were in the Rising Sun camp ground. The other two were in a nearby national forest to the south. That year we decided to leave the tow vehicle home which turned out to be a bad idea. We stayed so long because the weather was unusually perfect which had us taking more hikes and sights, often utilizing the bus service which was good considering it is bus service, but inefficient compared to your own car. At the end of a 14 mile hike, we (and many others) missed the last scheduled bus. It was a very long wait for a ride from an unscheduled bus during a time when we were so very exhausted.

Our motor home is 23'-8" end to end which restricted us from one other road in the south-east area near Two Medicine which was no issue at all given there was an alternate route available.

It was one of our better vacations. The good weather made all the difference. We planned for 3-4 nights in Glacier assuming the weather would be an issues as in past visits. It is a beautiful park in the right weather.

[coolmom42]

Thanks for the details, Ron.

I'm familiar with the restrictions on Going to the Sun Road. I figure the pull-offs would be a little tight in a RV, although I've driven it in an extended cab long bed pickup. The simple solution is to rent a small car for a couple of days and leave the RV parked. (Although...no bathroom in the back... :()

[ron_dittmer]

coolmom42,

Below is my standard reply to people with your inquiry.

If you plan to visit Glacier, get familiar with the vehicle size limitation to drive the main road over Logan Pass called Going To The Sun Road. There is bus service to get you around, but inefficient compared to having a tow vehicle.

Taken From The NPS Website:
To help reduce congestion, vehicle size restrictions are in effect. Vehicles, and vehicle combinations, longer than 21 feet (including bumpers) or wider than 8 feet (including mirrors), are prohibited between Avalanche Campground and the Rising Sun picnic area parking. Vehicle and vehicle combinations over 10 feet in height may have difficulty driving west from Logan Pass to the Loop, due to rock overhangs. Stock trucks and trailers are able to access Packers Roost on the west, and Siyeh Bend on the east.



Here is my recommendation when shopping for a B+/C motor home.

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New, used, or well used, when shopping for any conventional class-C, the most important consideration is how it is constructed. This post outlines construction methods which are most affordable and methods that cost more, but are built to hold up much better to the elements and the punishment of road motion.

Some motor home manufactures offer different levels of quality through their various model lines. Instead of providing a list of brands to consider, it is best to identify what "Better" is.

When shopping for a motor home, don't get distracted with what I call "Eye Candy" or "Square Footage". You want to pay close attention to how the house is constructed. Water infiltration is the number one killer of motor homes, rotting them away long before anything is worn out. Once water gets inside, it is like termites. By the time you realize there is a problem, a lot of damage has already occurred. Also consider that mold & mildew can grow inside the walls which then you have a health hazard. My advise focuses on identifying a reliably well sealed motor home.

#1 BEST (Very Expensive, Can Be 1.75 to 2 times the cost of Second Best)
NO structural seam work. The brand Coach House is a fine example. It is seamless, made from a mold. The only places where water can leak is cutouts for windows, entry door, roof-top vents & a/c unit, storage compartments & maintenance access, all of which are in areas of very low stress. Because they have a seamless shell, these motor homes have a limited selection of sizes.

#2 SECOND BEST
Common, Affordable, & comes in Many Sizes so this is my main focus
I own an example of this type. My Rig Here manufactured by Phoenix USA.
Made in sections, but assembled in a way that greatly reduces the threat of water damage. Here are the good things you want to look for.

a) Structural Seams Away From Corners
When a motor home is driven, the house bounces, resonates, shakes, and leans, many thousands of times, representing a series of extended continuous earthquakes. Corner seams see greater stresses than seams located elsewhere. Corner seams are more easily split, especially when the caulk gets brittle with age & exposure to the sun. One extremely bad bump in the road can instantly breach a corner seam. Seams hold up much better when they are brought in from the corners in lower stressed areas.

b) A Seamless Over-The-Van Front Cap
A huge bed above the van’s roof is the most vulnerable area of a motor home. No matter how well they are made, that long frontal over-hang resonates when the RV is driven. It is common for seams to split there, most troublesome with age & exposure to the elements. HERE is a more recent example, one of many I have read. The small front aerodynamic cap of a B+ design HERE eliminates the overhang which eliminates most of the resonation, along with most seam work.

There are a few conventional “C” Designs (big over-van bed) where that area is seamless. If you absolutely must have that huge bed, then look for a seamless bucket-like design. Born Free offers a seamless bucket design as seen in This Model. The Itasca Navion Here is another fine example. Some manufactures as of late offer a partial bucket design with fewer seams located in less-stressed areas. Some manufacture models like the Minnie Winnie Premier and the Nexus Phantom utilize a compromising partial bucket design, making it a better choice compared to a fully seamed cab-over bed.

If you plan to accommodate more than 2 people, having that large extra cab-over bed will be extremely useful.

c) A Crowned Roof
Rain and snow melt runs off a crowned roof. A flat roof will sag over time, then water puddles around heavy roof-top items like the a/c unit. Water eventually finds it's way inside after gaskets & caulk have degraded from age, sun, and change in seasons.

d) Rolled-Over-The-Edge seamless Fiberglass Roof Sheathing
A single sheet of fiberglass as shown HERE that rolls over the right & left sides of the roof, down to the wall. The overlapping of fiberglass to the wall provides a good water seal and the fiberglass sheathing holds up better than roofs made of sheet rubber or thin plastic called TPO, which require more attention to keep your RV well protected.

e) A Five Sided Rear Wall Cap
A five sided back wall moves the seams around to the sides to areas of much less stress as seen HERE. The rear wall resembles a shallow cooking pan standing on it's side. Like the example, some rear wall sections are constructed with an integrated spare tire compartment and rear storage compartment. Not only are they convenience features, but that rear wall/cap offers a solid double-wall for exceptional strength which is more resistant to flexing the adjoining seam work.

Potentially Troublesome Construction
Entry level motor homes are made with seams in corners and finished off with trim, including the massive cab-over bed. Their roof is flat and finished with rubber or TPO. They are most affordable, and come in all sizes. HERE is one such example. If considering this construction type, keep in-mind they require more regular care with bi-annual inspections. Plan to use a caulking gun now and then. When buying a used one, consider that you really don't know how well the previous owner maintained it. Buying new or used, that construction method will be counting on you to be a good non-neglectful owner.

There are also rare exception like the Lazy Daze which has seam work in the corners, but the substructure and sealing method is of the highest quality that it holds up like a seamless body. It's excellent sectional construction methods are not commonly found in other brands. I am no expert on this, but I'd give it a #1.5 Almost Like Best

About The Chassis
The most popular is the Ford E-Series with the V10 engine. The Sprinter diesel is a popular alternative to the E350 in the smaller sizes. The GM chassis is not popular, but is a very good choice for the right application. Any of those three brands since 1998 are real good, new or used. If you plan to tow a car or heavy trailer, be aware that the Sprinter is the least powered chassis. People who tow with a Sprinter, take it slower.

If considering a recent “small” class B+/C motor home, here is a comparison between the two main contenders, the Sprinter with the V6 diesel engine and the Ford E350 with the V10 gasoline engine.

Advantages Of The Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Offers a 35% improvement in fuel economy over the Ford-V10, when both are loaded and driven identically.
- More ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- A grander view out the windshield
- Made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with V10 Engine
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, the Ford is around $13,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 1430 pounds more weight.
- The E350 is able to tow a heavier load.
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- This Next Point Is Debatable But Still Worth Noting....The V6 Sprinter diesel engine is not allowed to idle for extended periods. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions or you are dangerously low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford V10 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or health/respiratory issues.

You decide what your priorities are, and pick the appropriate chassis. There are some really sweet motor homes being built exclusively on the Sprinter chassis, such as the Winnebago Via, View and View Profile. Others like Phoenix USA build their model 2350 and 2400 on both the Sprinter and Ford E350. They will even build it on the heaviest duty E450 upon request for a nominal fee. People who request an E450 for a small motor home, tow heavier things like for example, a multi-horse trailer. You can even special order a E350 & E450 4x4.

There is so much cool stuff offered in recent years, and even more anticipated with the upcoming Ford T-Series chassis. The general public awaits the RV industry to utilize a made-for-RV-application model when or if it becomes available. The chassis is similar to a Sprinter in capability and fuel economy, but hopeful to be much more affordable and easier to get serviced.

The Chevy 3500/4500 Chassis
I do not understand why this chassis is not more popular. It offers more interior comfort than the Ford, but not as much as the Sprinter. It's power & weight ratings are a little less than their Ford counter-parts making them a great chassis for all but the heaviest of class Cs. They are also a little better on fuel consumption. One thing to keep in-mind, if you are counting inches to store your rig, the Chevy adds an additional 6" to the front bumper compared to the Ford. I learned that researching rigs that could fit in my 25'-0" deep garage. By default, the Ford gave me 6" more to work with. If you examine my motor home in my garage HERE, you will see our Ford E350 is quite tight already. That could be some of the reason why the Chevy offers a little more interior driver/passenger space.

The Dodge Promaster 3500 Cut-Away Chassis
THIS front wheel drive chassis is a brand new entry in the RV industry. I am concerned over it's lack of load capability as reflected with single free-wheeling rear wheels. I have been reading posts written by new Promaster RV owners stating they are over-weight with just two people, some personal effects and food. They say they can't carry water and never a 3rd person. I would not be comfortable with such a limited load range.

Engine Power Ratings of Ford, Sprinter, & Chevy
Ford - 6.8L-V10, 305hp, 420ft
Sprinter Diesel - 3.0L-V6, 188hp, 325ft
Chevy - 6.0L-V8, 323hp, 373ft
Dodge Promaster - 3.6L-V6 (GVW only 9,300 pounds)

[coolmom42]

Seems to me a RV that's been driven 3K-6K miles a year would be ideal. I don't want a really high mileage. Also will find out (if possible) if it's been steadily in use, or used for a while and then left to sit. I know the latter is not good, but could be used as negotiating point in buying.

[Teacher_s_Pet]

Low mileage on a early 2000's B+ isn't always a great thing. Our 2004 R-Vision, Trail Lite 213 had just over 8K miles on it and was 8 years old. It looked and drove great, but needless to say it had sat a lot.

Off the top of my head we bought or repaired the following before a 2013 Alaska trip:

• 2 AGM 6 volt batteries and additional mount fabrication $800
• Lost in tank fuel pump 2nd trip in 2012 $800 (sat with untreated 10% ethanol in tank for 2 years, which was blamed for the following also)
• Had the poor running generator checked out and serviced by Onan, replaced carb, fuel lines & fuel pump $650
• New tires $1300
• Power management system $300
• Hot rod for water heater $75
• General engine check out, belts, hoses, fluid changes $500
• Masks for grill, windshield and bug deflector $150
• New TV $200
• New Wineguard Rayzr antenna head $50
• Quick disconnect gas line with shutoff valve and Buddy catalytic heater $110
• Refrigerator recall, cleaning, parts and service $150
• Extra alternator for trip $155

No problems on the 17K trip with anything, I guess we over-reacted on preparation.

We have about 27K miles on it now and Scottiemom is looking for a corner bed in a B+ ... :E.

[Hank85713]

I dont think the v10 has a timing belt, probably a chain and 30K is not enough to warrant the $$ to R&R. But if ya do might as well go whole hog and do the water pump and t-stat as well. Plus you will need all new coolant etc.

I would as a minimum just change all fluids as a start point and then move on to other things such as spark plugs and cops if needed. All filters such as oil, air, and trans unless you do go ahead and flush.

Probably the biggest expense will be tires unless newly installed. If it hasnt been used a lot than figure on a brake flush and possible pads. Shocks could also come into play here due to age, they run about $100 each. So with what I just said you are in the neighborhood of a $1000 not counting tires maybe even $1500. Tires will run about $150 each easily if not more. So shop wisely

[midnightsadie]

mines a B+ or small C so far I,ve spent money on tires,, brakes and a heater element, ,,oil filters . its 2007 LTV sprinter chassis, 35k miles. owned since new , and we take good care of it. always garaged. there out here you just gotta hunt.I,m in ohio found ours in alabama.at a small dealer.

[coolmom42]

LOL I think you are right about staying under 5K miles/year.

I would probably do one longer trip maybe 2K miles in the southeast... then shorter ones. Glacier is on my agenda which will be about 5K miles, been there once before. Also planning an Arizona winter trip, plus maybe a Utah spring trip.

Lots to do and see in this great country, for sure!

The way I handle vehicle and home maintenance expenses is to have what I call sinking funds. Set aside $$$ every month and use as needed, on top of a starting amount. And there is an emergency fund if the sinking fund is not adequate. I'll have a separate vacation budget to cover fuel, RV sites, etc.

So for the chassis repairs where you did DIY I would need to add some labor, probably a few hundred $$ each time.

Just trying to get a ball park idea.