Toad Brake laws

[getgoin]

Hello all....

So we have the class A and the Subaru stick shift, now it's time to set the two up. I got a hold of friends in CO, I'm in CA, they tow a Subaru like mine. CO law does not require a brake system on the Subaru! Is there a site that covers this? Seems if any state would require toad brakes it would be CO...with the Rockies and all. The Subaru weighs 3160 lbs.

Any info here would be appreciated.

Thanks much
Mike
Mikestatland@gmail.com

[mowermech]

I refuse to play "Last Word", so I will not say "TAG, you're it!"

[msmith1199]

Yes, you are correct about that.

[mowermech]

You obviously don't see it the way I do, so forget it.

[msmith1199]

So you're disagreeing with something I said? I don't see where I ever said it was legal for people to ride in a trailer. Do I need to state it's not legal even though I never said it was? And yes the Disneyland trams are a good example of a trailer designed to carry people. Michigan law was just defining what a trailer was in their interpretation, there was no mention of it being street legal. There are in fact trailers designed to carry people. You would have to look at other laws to determine if those trailers are legal or not to be operated on the street in any particular state.

[mowermech]

deleted

[msmith1199]

What are we debating about Mowermech? I think I'm missing something. You seem to want to debate me about what Michigan law says and I'm not understanding the point.

[mowermech]

deleted

[msmith1199]

mowermech wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:

wa8yxm wrote:
Two comments:
In the past (some have been fixed) I've viewed several of the "Do you need brakes on your towed" web sites and found errors.. For example for many years many sites said "MICHIGAN: NO" this is because there is no specific rule about brakes on a car in tow.

HOWEVER the definition of a "Trailer" fits a car in tow like a surgical glove, In fact a true trailer does not fit as well as a car in tow believe it or not, And trailers (over xxxx pounds) do need brakes.

The above is traffic law, which may be Criminal or civil depending on the state.


Page two: Civil (Liability) Law.

It has been shown that a proper aux braking system can reduce your skid distance by as much as 30 percent (Source US Gear). Even if it's only 10 percent (Much more likely) here are some figures

20 mph on clear dry "Reference" pavement you skid 22 feet
40 Mph it's 44 feet
60 MPH (Common for RV's on Freeway) 191 feet.. yes 191 feet.

So let's add 10 percent.. that 191 is now about 210,,,

You panic stop.. no aux brakes, wind up 3 feet in front of the rear bumper of the car you hit... (Aux brakes would have stopped you 17 feet behind the car)

RECKLESS DRIVING.

A trucker in Ohio, many years ago, tried time and time again to pass a poke-alongus, there was never any contact between vehicles, never any danger to the Honeralble Mr. Pokey attorney at law.. He sued, got half a million dollars b ecause he "Felt Threatened" How much more so when you hit the guy.

A smart lawyer gonna make you WISH you had brakes on that towed.

Here is the Michigan law defining trailer:

"257.73 “Trailer” defined.

"Trailer" means every vehicle with or without motive power, other than a pole-trailer, designed for carrying property or persons and for being drawn by a motor vehicle and so constructed that no part of its weight rests upon the towing vehicle. Trailer does not include any implement of husbandry."

And although upon first glance you may think it would include a towed motor vehicle, all elements of the statute must be present. Note the part that says, "designed for carrying property or person AND for being drawn by a motor vehicle." I put the word AND in caps because for some to be a trailer the statute says it must be designed to be towed. That excludes cars as they are not designed to be towed. This statute is defining a trailer not a car.

Montana has the same law, nearly identical, except the word "persons" is not there. A trailer is not designed to carry "persons"! In fact, it is illegal for a "person" to ride in a "trailer"!
Is it legal in Michigan to ride in a Travel Trailer? How about a Utility Trailer?
Hmmmmm...

Not necessarily. There are trailers designed to carry people, mostly in commercial type vehicles, although they are not common. For example the trams at Disneyland pull multiple trailers designed for carrying person's. And at times those trailers operate on public streets as they cross the streets.

[mowermech]

msmith1199 wrote:

wa8yxm wrote:
Two comments:
In the past (some have been fixed) I've viewed several of the "Do you need brakes on your towed" web sites and found errors.. For example for many years many sites said "MICHIGAN: NO" this is because there is no specific rule about brakes on a car in tow.

HOWEVER the definition of a "Trailer" fits a car in tow like a surgical glove, In fact a true trailer does not fit as well as a car in tow believe it or not, And trailers (over xxxx pounds) do need brakes.

The above is traffic law, which may be Criminal or civil depending on the state.


Page two: Civil (Liability) Law.

It has been shown that a proper aux braking system can reduce your skid distance by as much as 30 percent (Source US Gear). Even if it's only 10 percent (Much more likely) here are some figures

20 mph on clear dry "Reference" pavement you skid 22 feet
40 Mph it's 44 feet
60 MPH (Common for RV's on Freeway) 191 feet.. yes 191 feet.

So let's add 10 percent.. that 191 is now about 210,,,

You panic stop.. no aux brakes, wind up 3 feet in front of the rear bumper of the car you hit... (Aux brakes would have stopped you 17 feet behind the car)

RECKLESS DRIVING.

A trucker in Ohio, many years ago, tried time and time again to pass a poke-alongus, there was never any contact between vehicles, never any danger to the Honeralble Mr. Pokey attorney at law.. He sued, got half a million dollars b ecause he "Felt Threatened" How much more so when you hit the guy.

A smart lawyer gonna make you WISH you had brakes on that towed.

Here is the Michigan law defining trailer:

"257.73 “Trailer” defined.

"Trailer" means every vehicle with or without motive power, other than a pole-trailer, designed for carrying property or persons and for being drawn by a motor vehicle and so constructed that no part of its weight rests upon the towing vehicle. Trailer does not include any implement of husbandry."

And although upon first glance you may think it would include a towed motor vehicle, all elements of the statute must be present. Note the part that says, "designed for carrying property or person AND for being drawn by a motor vehicle." I put the word AND in caps because for some to be a trailer the statute says it must be designed to be towed. That excludes cars as they are not designed to be towed. This statute is defining a trailer not a car.

Montana has the same law, nearly identical, except the word "persons" is not there. A trailer is not designed to carry "persons"! In fact, it is illegal for a "person" to ride in a "trailer"!
Is it legal in Michigan to ride in a Travel Trailer? How about a Utility Trailer?
Hmmmmm...

[tropical36]

getgoin wrote:
Hello all....

So we have the class A and the Subaru stick shift, now it's time to set the two up. I got a hold of friends in CO, I'm in CA, they tow a Subaru like mine. CO law does not require a brake system on the Subaru! Is there a site that covers this? Seems if any state would require toad brakes it would be CO...with the Rockies and all. The Subaru weighs 3160 lbs.

Any info here would be appreciated.

Thanks much
Mike
Mikestatland@gmail.com

I never attempt to answer this question, so maybe shouldn't be posting at all, but have said it before and will say it again.
Forget the laws and do everything possible for making your rig stop quicker, even if it's only a matter of inches. The life you save, could be someone's child. I mean we're not talking a lot of money here, with a READYBRAKE or like system and especially if you do your own work.
Wouldn't hurt to install a READYSTOP or the like, while you're at it and for having breakaway protection, as well.
We have both and even though, we have no plans for ever using the latter. Just like our insurance coverage's.

[msmith1199]

wa8yxm wrote:
Two comments:
In the past (some have been fixed) I've viewed several of the "Do you need brakes on your towed" web sites and found errors.. For example for many years many sites said "MICHIGAN: NO" this is because there is no specific rule about brakes on a car in tow.

HOWEVER the definition of a "Trailer" fits a car in tow like a surgical glove, In fact a true trailer does not fit as well as a car in tow believe it or not, And trailers (over xxxx pounds) do need brakes.

The above is traffic law, which may be Criminal or civil depending on the state.


Page two: Civil (Liability) Law.

It has been shown that a proper aux braking system can reduce your skid distance by as much as 30 percent (Source US Gear). Even if it's only 10 percent (Much more likely) here are some figures

20 mph on clear dry "Reference" pavement you skid 22 feet
40 Mph it's 44 feet
60 MPH (Common for RV's on Freeway) 191 feet.. yes 191 feet.

So let's add 10 percent.. that 191 is now about 210,,,

You panic stop.. no aux brakes, wind up 3 feet in front of the rear bumper of the car you hit... (Aux brakes would have stopped you 17 feet behind the car)

RECKLESS DRIVING.

A trucker in Ohio, many years ago, tried time and time again to pass a poke-alongus, there was never any contact between vehicles, never any danger to the Honeralble Mr. Pokey attorney at law.. He sued, got half a million dollars b ecause he "Felt Threatened" How much more so when you hit the guy.

A smart lawyer gonna make you WISH you had brakes on that towed.

Here is the Michigan law defining trailer:

"257.73 “Trailer” defined.

"Trailer" means every vehicle with or without motive power, other than a pole-trailer, designed for carrying property or persons and for being drawn by a motor vehicle and so constructed that no part of its weight rests upon the towing vehicle. Trailer does not include any implement of husbandry."

And although upon first glance you may think it would include a towed motor vehicle, all elements of the statute must be present. Note the part that says, "designed for carrying property or person AND for being drawn by a motor vehicle." I put the word AND in caps because for some to be a trailer the statute says it must be designed to be towed. That excludes cars as they are not designed to be towed. This statute is defining a trailer not a car.

[prstlk]

Ready stop sells a great break away set up for $65.00. It uses a simple cable that mounts to your brake pedal. The cable runs through a tensioner (simular to the Chinese finger cuffs) then to the towing vehicle. If a break away occurs this unit activates by pulling the brake pedal to the floor and locks it there. Simple to install and hook up.

[rgatijnet1]

wa8yxm wrote:


A smart lawyer gonna make you WISH you had brakes on that towed.

Any lawyer that would go after someone for doing something not required by any law would probably sue you for just being on the road in the fist place.
I guess you could use the same logic and only drive a POS RV because a nice one will give the impression that you have deep pockets, a lawyer's favorite target.

[wa8yxm]

Two comments:
In the past (some have been fixed) I've viewed several of the "Do you need brakes on your towed" web sites and found errors.. For example for many years many sites said "MICHIGAN: NO" this is because there is no specific rule about brakes on a car in tow.

HOWEVER the definition of a "Trailer" fits a car in tow like a surgical glove, In fact a true trailer does not fit as well as a car in tow believe it or not, And trailers (over xxxx pounds) do need brakes.

The above is traffic law, which may be Criminal or civil depending on the state.


Page two: Civil (Liability) Law.

It has been shown that a proper aux braking system can reduce your skid distance by as much as 30 percent (Source US Gear). Even if it's only 10 percent (Much more likely) here are some figures

20 mph on clear dry "Reference" pavement you skid 22 feet
40 Mph it's 44 feet
60 MPH (Common for RV's on Freeway) 191 feet.. yes 191 feet.

So let's add 10 percent.. that 191 is now about 210,,,

You panic stop.. no aux brakes, wind up 3 feet in front of the rear bumper of the car you hit... (Aux brakes would have stopped you 17 feet behind the car)

RECKLESS DRIVING.

A trucker in Ohio, many years ago, tried time and time again to pass a poke-alongus, there was never any contact between vehicles, never any danger to the Honeralble Mr. Pokey attorney at law.. He sued, got half a million dollars b ecause he "Felt Threatened" How much more so when you hit the guy.

A smart lawyer gonna make you WISH you had brakes on that towed.