Went to an RV Show Yesterday

[6ofus]

Hello all

I have two questions for you today ??

Went to an RV show yesterday to specifically sit in and get a feel for the Sunseeker 3010ds. It’s an awesome floorplan both with the slides open and closed and would fit our family beautifully. We also came upon a Coachmen Leprechaun 319mb. Loved the outdoor kitchen set up but I wasn’t a fan of the TV on the counter. My hubby didn't mind the TV on the counter. Anyone have any experience with these models good or bad? I know they are both made by the same company but have read that Coachmen are made poorly. As a side note, we will not be buying a new model and are looking at a used unit, 2 to 3 years old.

Also, I know that generators have the ability to have an automatic start in the event the power goes out. I asked the sales guy if that was an option for the Sunseeker and he said no, they cannot add that feature while the sales guy for the Leprechaun said yes, they could add that. Are there only certain models that would have the capability of adding this feature?

Thanks for reading and any input you can give. We are still researching….one step at a time!;)

[lm17]

As previously stated the quality is similar in these rigs. Your number one factor should be floorplan. Then go from there.

[pnichols]

4x4van wrote:
Working on the engine of a Ford class C is a nightmare; there is absolutely no easy access to anything, and it's all packed tightly into an extremely narrow space between the seats and under the dash. Opening the hood allows you to "see" the front of the engine (sort of). Opening the doghouse allows you access to only the back half of the engine. Neither actually gives you elbow room to do anything, especially on the front/sides of the engine.

Well ... if one wants the maximum RV in the minimum overall size ... it seems like a Class C can hit the mark better than a Class A. Compactness has a price - as any purchaser of a new Class B can attest to.

But you're maybe correct for backyard/garage DIY access to the front of a van's engine. However, my mechanic that specialises in commercial trucks didn't seem to have any problem replacing the bolts on one of my E450's V10 exhaust manifolds - which at first sounds like a horrendous job. I think that he just removed one front tire and then unbolted the engine side-shield piece in the fender for complete access to the side of the V10 ... no need to crawl under ... and probably easier side access than on non-van bodied vehicles.

BTW, I love the rear access to my V10 with the doghouse off - no need to crawl under it and struggle reaching up. For instance, it is a terrible job working near the back of the V8 in my 4X4 pickup - where the distributor, plug wiring, and exhaust manifold access is.

[jimx200]

Excellent reply about the almost impossible ability to do any engine work on a Class C. We are in the test driving mode looking for a used gas 30-32' Class A and right away noticed how much easier they handle! Our trip in some wind last month was white knuckle for 4 hours.. exhausting. In looking at the engine compartment, there is much more room too.

[4x4van]

Just a quick note here; don't discount a medium size (30-34') class A gasser because you think your husband can't work on it as easily. I've owned 2 class Cs, and now a class A; I do all my own maintenance and repairs, and my A is 10x easier to work on than either of my Cs were. It sits high enough that I can actually sit upright underneath, the entire sides of the engine are exposed and accessible from underneath and from the wheelwells, and lifting off the low doghouse cover inside exposes the entire top of the engine, from the front to the back.

Working on the engine of a Ford class C is a nightmare; there is absolutely no easy access to anything, and it's all packed tightly into an extremely narrow space between the seats and under the dash. Opening the hood allows you to "see" the front of the engine (sort of). Opening the doghouse allows you access to only the back half of the engine. Neither actually gives you elbow room to do anything, especially on the front/sides of the engine.

A class A will also give you better/larger tank capacities, better CCCs, and more walk-around room inside since the cab area becomes part of the living area (with a large picture window!). We used and enjoyed our class Cs, for nearly 25 years...but after purchasing a class A two years ago, I would never go back. The increased cargo capacity (both weight and volume), the larger water/waste/fuel tanks, the towing capacity, the living space...for 4-6 people, you will be thankful for all of the "additionals" that a class A provides over a C.

[ppine]

Simpler is less expensive with less to go wrong.
It is easy to be dazzled at the RV show.

[eb145]

Also remember that kids grow up and your RV sleeping needs may change over time. We bought a bunk house trailer years ago but when the kids moved out we wanted the bunk space back because they rarely slept in the bunks anymore. So I guess my point is your requirements may change over the years.

As far as pet safety, I have a temperature monitoring system (mine is from RV Whisper) that sends me email and text messages if the temperature gets too high or if shore power goes out. It has been working well for me.

I do not have gen auto start, but even if I did I would still want remote temperature monitoring. It just makes me feel better knowing what the actual temperature is in the RV.

Good luck finding the right RV for your needs.

[ppine]

People that live on boats came up with this saying decades ago.
6 for drinks
4 for dinner
2 for overnight.

[rjstractor]

pnichols wrote:
When we have to leave our dog in her playpen in the RV in warm temperatures in a non-hookup situation, we leave with the built-in generator and roof air conditioner running ... while at the same time FOR SAFETY BACKUP (in case the generator should ever quit while we're gone - it did once) ... we also leave a powerful 12 volt fan set on high blowing directly at the dog's playpen. In moderate temperatures we leave the front/rear roof vents open with the front vent's built-in fan drawing air from the rear vent through the full length of the motorhome.

We feel that this is a simple arrangement not relying too much on technology.

This is a good practice, and I think it's worth mentioning that while the interior of an RV will heat up without AC, if all the windows are covered it won't heat nearly as fast or hot as a car.

[pnichols]

When we have to leave our dog in her playpen in the RV in warm temperatures in a non-hookup situation, we leave with the built-in generator and roof air conditioner running ... while at the same time FOR SAFETY BACKUP (in case the generator should ever quit while we're gone - it did once) ... we also leave a powerful 12 volt fan set on high blowing directly at the dog's playpen. In moderate temperatures we leave the front/rear roof vents open with the front vent's built-in fan drawing air from the rear vent through the full length of the motorhome.

We feel that this is a simple arrangement not relying too much on technology.

[Expyinflight]

SidecarFlip wrote:
One thing I've learned (the hard way I might add) is, the more convenience and 'automatic' features any RV has, the more they break down as the acquire some age and the more it costs to get in fixed.

My latest one (I've had 5) is simple.

Convenience and automatic stuff is nice when new. Then it gets to be an issue.

In total agreement here. I have also owned 5. My utmost mission was to make the current one as simple as possible. See my signature.
If I could have gotten one without the electric awning, I would have done that also, but it came that way. Very happy with our choice.

[Rick_Jay]

Hi 6ofus,

The Jayco Seneca's I was thinking about are Class C's, sometimes known as "Super C's". The new Seneca's are really on steroids, but the older mid-2000 models were a step up from the E-450 chassis rigs. Here's an example of what I was thinking: 2006 Jayco Seneca 33SS. Here's a link to other 2006 Seneca flooplans. Just to show you what was available. Many of the rigs came with the duramax diesel instead of the 8.1L gas engine.

I'm just mentioning these as there are some out there for a decent price and they offer the larger Class C floorplans on a chassis that can generally handle the weight.

Jayco's are generally a fairly well respected manufacturer. Why didn't we get one when we were looking? Because Jayco didn't release the Seneca line until after we purchased our Class A, otherwise, we probably would've given one some serious consideration.

A problem with the weight capacities you listed is that I'm guessing they include the unloaded weight on the vehicle front axle. Seeing as you really can't pack anything on the front axle, this capacity is mostly unusable, though they DO include it in the overall carrying capacity. So, those numbers you quoted are most likely 500 or so pounds OVER what you can actually load in the rig to keep the rear axle within it's limits. Meaning those numbers become 1600 lbs. and 1300 lbs., respectively. For 6 people, that isn't much at all. To make matters worse, any weight put behind the rear axle leverages weight off the front axle and adds it to the rear axle. The net effect is the front axle is usually no where near it's limit while the rear axle is near or over it's limit quite easily. There have even been posts on these forums over the years of some rigs in which the rear axle capacity was exceeded just loaded up with fuels.

Not trying to scare you, just make sure you understand how the weight limits are spec'd and to understand that the manufacturers of these rigs (and most dealers selling them) pretty much assume buyers are clueless. This is DEFINITELY a BUYER BEWARE process.

I am of the opinion that with careful shopping, one can be much better served buying an older, quality rig rather than a newer rig which has more bells & whistles, but not the same build quality. For example, I expect to have our rig for another 5-10 years, but when it's time for it's replacement, I'm going to be looking for a 15-20 year old, well cared for high-end diesel pusher. Basically I'll be getting a $500k+ rig for under $100k. Financing older rigs, if necessary, can be a bit more challenging, however.

I also agree with SideCarFlip that simple is better.

Good Luck in your search.

~Rick

[6ofus]

SidecarFlip wrote:
One thing I've learned (the hard way I might add) is, the more convenience and 'automatic' features any RV has, the more they break down as the acquire some age and the more it costs to get in fixed.

My latest one (I've had 5) is simple.

Convenience and automatic stuff is nice when new. Then it gets to be an issue.

My exact thought when I saw the TV that lifts up and down!

[6ofus]

Rick Jay wrote:
6ofus,

Are there really going to be 6 of you travelling? If so, most likely you will exceed the chassis weight limits for either of those rigs. If you're OK, with that, fine. Some are, some aren't. Most of my comments and suggestions below are based upon the assumption there will be 6 of you travelling, 4 of them between 1 & 18ish.

I WOULD NOT recommend the TV over the counter as there will be times (assuming you have kids, or perhaps even your spouse) where someone will be wanting to watch the TV while meal preparation is being done.

In my opinion, outdoor kitchens add weight and use up valuable storage space, but to each their own on that. I've just never seen the point.

As for the generator, there are options out there. I believe there are some which you can even monitor via your smart phone, assuming you have wifi where the rig is parked. If the power goes out, it'll alert you and you can send a signal to start the generator. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are some which use the cellular network, assuming you're in an area with cell service. I'm sure there are also temperature cued remotes that can automatically kick in the generator if the temperature inside the rig gets too warm. I'm assuming you want this feature because you have pets? We travel with 2 dogs. If we're in a campground, I have the front A/C set at a lower temp than the rear, so if either A/C fails, the other will kick in. I also keep the roof vent open a bit with the fan exhausting the warm air. Not as good as A/C, but should keep the interior livable should there be a power failure.

If there are 6 of you, you're in a similar situation we were when we started looking for our "ideal RV" back in 2002. In 2004, after exhaustively checking out just about every option starting with small hybrids to tow behind our Odyssey, we ended up with our dual sofa gas class A in our signature towing the Odyssey. We looked at just about every option in-between as well. After 14+ years and counting, and it's STILL the best floorplan we've found for the way we use our rig. Our youngest child had just turned 1 when we bought it. The class C's, like you're looking at now, did not have the weight carrying capacity I figured we'd need for our family. Before we purchased I estimated about 2,500 lbs. of food, people, pets, water & stuff, and when I roll over the scales, that's just about where we weigh in. The large, dual slide E-450 units can't handle that much weight without exceeding their chassis limits.

If you're buying used and want a rig with that type of floorplan, I highly suggest you look at rigs a few years older like the Jayco Seneca's. They'll be pricier, but will most likely be able to safely handle the weight you need to carry.

My best advice, though, is not to rush into anything. Buying the wrong RV can be costly as you play the "trade up" game. Do your research before you buy and get the right rig the first time.

Good Luck,

~Rick

Hi Rick

You are correct…there are 6 of us, 4 being 18 and younger and one dog. Most times, however, there will only be 4. Two of kiddos will be with us from time to time depending on their sport schedule.

We are mindful to the carrying capacity. The last thing we want is to put our family in danger. We did do some research on Class A’s and feel we are more comfortable with a C for many reasons. A big plus for us with the C is it’s a truck and most if not all maintenance can be done by my husband. I don’t believe that can happen with an A.

Some people have also suggested we bring a tent for the kids. I have no problem doing this as we have dong this in the past but we want to camp in bear country. Now here is where I’m a crazy mama who worries, but I don’t want my kids in a tent with bears around….I would not sleep! :E Yes we could rent a villa or cabin as we have done in the past but we love camping and sleeping in my own bed is a wonderful feeling.

The carrying capacity for the Sunseeker is 2100 and the Leprechaun is 1829. I admit that 1829 is a low number. We’ve camped for the past 11 years in a pop up (with no slide) and always packed light. With that being said, we are aware of the CC changing depending on how many kids we have with us. DH and I have discussed how we would handle that i.e. getting groceries when we reach our destination as we do now when we take long trips, using only as much water in the toilet to get us to our destination, packing light just to name a few. We plan on one big trip a year which would involve us getting to a destination, setting up camp and sightseeing. This is when there will be 6 of us. Other trips are local with friends for the weekend, which there will be 4. We don’t have any “toys” per se, only fishing poles and don’t plan on getting anything big. Our kids our growing, life goes fast and we want to be able to take some trips and make those memories before they are up and gone. I know we’ll get there…..:)

[Rick_Jay]

6ofus,

Are there really going to be 6 of you travelling? If so, most likely you will exceed the chassis weight limits for either of those rigs. If you're OK, with that, fine. Some are, some aren't. Most of my comments and suggestions below are based upon the assumption there will be 6 of you travelling, 4 of them between 1 & 18ish.

I WOULD NOT recommend the TV over the counter as there will be times (assuming you have kids, or perhaps even your spouse) where someone will be wanting to watch the TV while meal preparation is being done.

In my opinion, outdoor kitchens add weight and use up valuable storage space, but to each their own on that. I've just never seen the point.

As for the generator, there are options out there. I believe there are some which you can even monitor via your smart phone, assuming you have wifi where the rig is parked. If the power goes out, it'll alert you and you can send a signal to start the generator. In fact, I'm pretty sure there are some which use the cellular network, assuming you're in an area with cell service. I'm sure there are also temperature cued remotes that can automatically kick in the generator if the temperature inside the rig gets too warm. I'm assuming you want this feature because you have pets? We travel with 2 dogs. If we're in a campground, I have the front A/C set at a lower temp than the rear, so if either A/C fails, the other will kick in. I also keep the roof vent open a bit with the fan exhausting the warm air. Not as good as A/C, but should keep the interior livable should there be a power failure.

If there are 6 of you, you're in a similar situation we were when we started looking for our "ideal RV" back in 2002. In 2004, after exhaustively checking out just about every option starting with small hybrids to tow behind our Odyssey, we ended up with our dual sofa gas class A in our signature towing the Odyssey. We looked at just about every option in-between as well. After 14+ years and counting, and it's STILL the best floorplan we've found for the way we use our rig. Our youngest child had just turned 1 when we bought it. The class C's, like you're looking at now, did not have the weight carrying capacity I figured we'd need for our family. Before we purchased I estimated about 2,500 lbs. of food, people, pets, water & stuff, and when I roll over the scales, that's just about where we weigh in. The large, dual slide E-450 units can't handle that much weight without exceeding their chassis limits.

If you're buying used and want a rig with that type of floorplan, I highly suggest you look at rigs a few years older like the Jayco Seneca's. They'll be pricier, but will most likely be able to safely handle the weight you need to carry.

My best advice, though, is not to rush into anything. Buying the wrong RV can be costly as you play the "trade up" game. Do your research before you buy and get the right rig the first time.

Good Luck,

~Rick