Wiring the Bi-Directional Isolator Relay diesel-2

[fcooper]

My coach does not charge the chassis batteries when on shore power, it just charges the house batteries.

I'm considering replacing the currently installed Intelletic Relay Delay (charges house batteries when alternator output is sensed) with the Bi-Directional Isolator Relay diesel 2 (BIRD).

The service manual for the BIRD states

When the generator is operating, a 12 volt signal is applied to the generator input. This inhibits the isolator from operating. This is to prevent the generator/converter combination from supplying power to the chassis
functions which might over-load the converter or the generator circuit breaker.

.

The wiring diagram simply shows a connection between the terminal on the BIRD and the generator, but provides no information on where to connect this wire to the generator. If you want to see the wiring diagram I've found, it's at link to service manual

I have searched for installation instructions, but the best I can find is the service manual in the link above.

If any of you have installed one of these Bi-Directional Isolator Relays, can you help me understand how the wiring is connected between the Bidirectional Isolator Relay and the generator. I have a 7.5KW diesel generator.

Thanks

Fred

[boogieman_nc]

good info

[dougrainer]

OnaQuest wrote:
Doug, I was just yanking your chain. Here's your site.. Enjoy

Thank you. Doug

[OnaQuest]

Doug, I was just yanking your chain. Here's your site.. Enjoy

[dougrainer]

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

OnaQuest wrote:

There is ONE on-line site that has all the info we have discussed here, available in PDF format. Every Intellitec product and every manual.

WELL???????? WHERE IS IT?????????????? DOUG

I wouldn't want you to have to waste your valuable time searching for manuals for anyone. Why don't you just tell me what manuals you need and I will link you to them.:)

You said there was 1 site for all those manuals. That way, I would not have to waste my time searching. What is the site? I already have almost all of Intellitecs manuals in my file system cabinet, but I like to use the On line site which Intellitec took down a few years ago. I do not need them, but I like to post links for posters that have a problem or need the manual to understand their system and how to operate the system. Doug

[OnaQuest]

dougrainer wrote:

OnaQuest wrote:

There is ONE on-line site that has all the info we have discussed here, available in PDF format. Every Intellitec product and every manual.

WELL???????? WHERE IS IT?????????????? DOUG

I wouldn't want you to have to waste your valuable time searching for manuals for anyone. Why don't you just tell me what manuals you need and I will link you to them.:)

[dougrainer]

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

NOT online as they used to be. I have had numerous talks with Intellitec over the years about why they dropped the original website and put up the current pitiful website. I have an extensive library from over the years at work for Intellitec, I do NOT have time to request individual manuals and such from my Intellitec suppliers. BIG WASTE of my time. They dropped the ball big time on their website. Having a GOOD functional website keeps people from calling them for help and manuals. Doug

There is ONE on-line site that has all the info we have discussed here, available in PDF format. Every Intellitec product and every manual.

WELL???????? WHERE IS IT?????????????? DOUG

[OnaQuest]

dougrainer wrote:

NOT online as they used to be. I have had numerous talks with Intellitec over the years about why they dropped the original website and put up the current pitiful website. I have an extensive library from over the years at work for Intellitec, I do NOT have time to request individual manuals and such from my Intellitec suppliers. BIG WASTE of my time. They dropped the ball big time on their website. Having a GOOD functional website keeps people from calling them for help and manuals. Doug

There is ONE on-line site that has all the info we have discussed here, available in PDF format. Every Intellitec product and every manual.

[fcooper]

Deandec

Yes, I've considered the Trik-L-Start, and it's big brother - the Amp- L-Start. I'm leaning toward the Amp-L-Start since it has one additional feature: From the LSL Products web site "Overvoltage Protection Automatically shuts down during house battery equalization, resumes normal operation afterwards".

I can't find this feature listed for the Trik-L-Start, but it may have it also.

I'm still considering all the options. I've gotten along up till now with a jumper cable between the positive posts of both sets of batteries, but I'm getting tired of connecting/disconnecting, etc.

Thanks for the post.

Fred

[deandec]

fcooper wrote:
My coach does not charge the chassis batteries when on shore power, it just charges the house batteries.

I'm considering replacing the currently installed Intelletic Relay Delay (charges house batteries when alternator output is sensed) with the Bi-Directional Isolator Relay diesel 2 (BIRD).


Fred

I just installed a Trik-L-Start to provide shore power/gen power to chassis battery charging.

Trik-L-Start

Seems to work fine with the manufacturer installed components.

$50 and 15 minutes to install.

[dougrainer]

OnaQuest wrote:
Doug, (Dougrainer) ALL Intellitec products (and their manuals and brochures), including the 839 are still available from authorized Intellitec sources. I have access to them all. Believe me, the 839 is still very much in production.

NOT online as they used to be. I have had numerous talks with Intellitec over the years about why they dropped the original website and put up the current pitiful website. I have an extensive library from over the years at work for Intellitec, I do NOT have time to request individual manuals and such from my Intellitec suppliers. BIG WASTE of my time. They dropped the ball big time on their website. Having a GOOD functional website keeps people from calling them for help and manuals. Doug

[OnaQuest]

Doug, (Dougrainer) ALL Intellitec products (and their manuals and brochures), including the 839 are still available from authorized Intellitec sources. I have access to them all. Believe me, the 839 is still very much in production.

[dougrainer]

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

Doug, everything you say here is true except the statements in red. Intellitec makes the model 839 BIRD. The 839 has the gen lockout feature designed to prevent the interference you mention above. Monaco does not make a BIRD device.

The OP has a 2000 model The 839 was NOT available back then. MY post was for HIS model. Intellitec obviously developed the 839 after 2007/08. The Bosch relay system I mentioned was DESIGNED by Monaco for the problem I outlined. IF they had the 839 back then, that is what we would have installed. If you read the 839 instructions, it specifically states that the Gen spade and design is exactly for the ATL fail light when Gen and Engine running at the same time. So, that is how the OEM's have addressed the Alt fail light problem. This problem can happen on Roadmaster/Ford/Frtliner chassis systems. Workhorse never had the problem. Doug

You are changing what you said. You said Intellitec does not offer a BIRD with the gen set lockout, not that they didn't in the past. You are right that the 839 was not available in 2000 but I'm pretty sure the 366 (it's predecessor) was, and it had the lockout.

The reason I stated that is I went to Intellitec's website and they did NOT show the 839 and since I have never seen one, I made that statement. Intellitec's website was taken down a few years ago and redone and the new website does NOT have the manuals and features and all their products like the old website. You can buy the 839 on E bay, but when you do a Google search, the E bay is the most common site to find the 839. It is also possible that Intellitec no longer offers the 839 and that is the reason it is not on their website. There may be suppliers and OEM's that still have a supply of them. This is one thing I like about these forums. I now know that their IS a relay(BIRD) for the Alt light fault indicator. Doug

[OnaQuest]

dougrainer wrote:

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

Doug, everything you say here is true except the statements in red. Intellitec makes the model 839 BIRD. The 839 has the gen lockout feature designed to prevent the interference you mention above. Monaco does not make a BIRD device.

The OP has a 2000 model The 839 was NOT available back then. MY post was for HIS model. Intellitec obviously developed the 839 after 2007/08. The Bosch relay system I mentioned was DESIGNED by Monaco for the problem I outlined. IF they had the 839 back then, that is what we would have installed. If you read the 839 instructions, it specifically states that the Gen spade and design is exactly for the ATL fail light when Gen and Engine running at the same time. So, that is how the OEM's have addressed the Alt fail light problem. This problem can happen on Roadmaster/Ford/Frtliner chassis systems. Workhorse never had the problem. Doug

You are changing what you said. You said Intellitec does not offer a BIRD with the gen set lockout, not that they didn't in the past. You are right that the 839 was not available in 2000 but I'm pretty sure the 366 (it's predecessor) was, and it had the lockout.

[dougrainer]

OnaQuest wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

dougrainer wrote:
At the BIRD there should be a GEN spade with a wire. DISCONNECT that GEN wire and the BIRD should allow bi directional charging as long as the Converter(Inverter/Charger) supply voltage is OVER 13.2 volts. Remember, BI directional when on Shore/Gen ONLY happens when the House charging system supplies over that 13.2 volts. Once the Charging goes to float(usually this is less than 13.1), the BIRD drops out the charge to the chassis side batteries. Doug

I doublechecked my files and went to Intellitec. They offer NO BIRD that has a Genset setting that I can find. IF your Monaco has such a system that is designed and installed by Monaco. I do not remember a charge system that had the Genset disengage the BI charging just on Genset. We sold and I seviced Monaco's from 1998 till they went under in 2008/09. They DID have a feature (optional on the models from Cayman/Diplomat/Knight and down the cost scale/standard on the higher lines) on the large main fuse board up front in the storage, there was an empty area in the center with a multi prong plug where you could buy from Monaco and install the Bi directional module that would charge the chassis when 120 voltage was available. Now, Monaco sent out a TSB over 10 years ago and this may be what you have---When the original wiring was done, IF you have an Inverter/Charger or a converter that had the bulk charge adapter, when the chassis engine was ON and the genset was ON and the Inverter/Charger went to BULK charge (over 14.1 volts) this caused the ALT light on the dash to come on. This was because the fault for the chassis Alt as set at 14.1 volts or over. The solution was to install a relay that was connected to the genset Hourmeter 12 volt positive thru a bosch relay that anytime the chassis engine was ON and the Genset was ON at the same time, the chassis Alternator did not charge the coach batteries, since the Inverter/Charger would be charging them. Once the Genset was turned off the bosch relay closed to allow the chassis Alt would charge the coach batteries. Doug

Doug, everything you say here is true except the statements in red. Intellitec makes the model 839 BIRD. The 839 has the gen lockout feature designed to prevent the interference you mention above. Monaco does not make a BIRD device.

The OP has a 2000 model The 839 was NOT available back then. MY post was for HIS model. Intellitec obviously developed the 839 after 2007/08. The Bosch relay system I mentioned was DESIGNED by Monaco for the problem I outlined. IF they had the 839 back then, that is what we would have installed. If you read the 839 instructions, it specifically states that the Gen spade and design is exactly for the ATL fail light when Gen and Engine running at the same time. So, that is how the OEM's have addressed the Alt fail light problem. This problem can happen on Roadmaster/Ford/Frtliner chassis systems. Workhorse never had the problem. Doug