Wrong Pump in AZ

[fischer]

Just read about ging to the wrong pump in Arizona at truck stops. If you have 3 axels or over 26,000 lbs rig and your diesel. Fine is 1000 dollars if you use the car pumps.
Did you big guys already know this

[TucsonJim]

Rollnhome wrote:
Also note a MH in Arizona requires a different drivers license than a passenger carrying vehicle. Therefore they are two different types of vehicles.

True - If you are driving a vehicle in excess of 26,001 pounds, you are required to obtain a commercial driver's license in Arizona.

This also includes combinations of vehicles that exceed 26,001 pounds if the trailer exceeds 10,000 pounds.

[Trumpet_Player]

Passin Thru wrote:
It is not a Commercial Vehicle, That's how! Read the complete paragraph 10 times, Call Arizona DOT and ask them. You read too much into this. Unless you haul passengers for hire or are a CMV hauling goods for compensation then you "ARE" Exempt fro Arizona Commercial Vehicle rules. Can it be any simpler than that. We owned a Peterbilt and ran all the lower states and I know AZ laws.

I also know Murphy's 1st law, Don't mess with Mrs Murphy.

then you "ARE" Exempt fro Arizona Commercial Vehicle rules.

Not if you buy fuel in Arizona. Also, being a "commercial vehicle" has absolutely NOTHING to do with this.

[Rollnhome]

Also note a MH in Arizona requires a different drivers license than a passenger carrying vehicle. Therefore they are two different types of vehicles.

[Trumpet_Player]

Rollnhome wrote:
How can you exempt something from a list that is not included in the list? That is my point.

All vehicles over 26,000 pounds and or with two or more axles are INCLUDED per the law and are required to use the higher tax rate fuel. Only those vehicles shown in ARS 28-5432.C (there is no exemption for motorhomes or RVs) are exempt from the additional tax even if the vehicles meet the other requirements shown above. This is not really that complicated.

[Rollnhome]

Arizona DOT definition of Recreational Vehicle taken from:

Arizona Revised Statutes - Title 28 Transportation - Section 28-3102

"Recreational vehicle" means a motor
vehicle or vehicle combination that is more than twenty-six thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating and that is designed and exclusively used for private pleasure, including vehicles commonly called motor homes, pickup trucks with campers, travel trailers, boat trailers and horse trailers used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes.

Here is the list of "use vehicles"

A "use class motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle that uses use fuel on a highway in this state and that is a road tractor, truck tractor, truck or passenger carrying vehicle having a declared gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds or having more than two axles.

A passenger carrying vehicle is defined by USDOT as: simplified... A bus or motorcoach ( tour bus) designed to carry 15 or more passengers.

RVs are not on the list therefore no need to exempt.
The listed exemptions are exemptions to vehicle types listed as "use class motor vehicle.

Therefore RVs pay 18¢ fuel tax.

[msmith1199]

winepress wrote:
I took a look at 28-5432. it says it applies to:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05432.htm
28-5432- This article applies to all of the following:

1. A trailer or semitrailer with a gross weight of ten thousand pounds or less and that is used in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise. (That's not me, I'm not a trailer)

2. A motor vehicle or vehicle combination if the motor vehicle or vehicle combination is designed, used or maintained primarily for the transportation of passengers for compensation or for the transportation of property. (That's not me)

3. A hearse, an ambulance or any other vehicle that is used by a mortician in the conduct of the mortician's business. (Definitely not me)

4. A commercial motor vehicle as defined in section 28-5201. (um, could be me, let's look that up)

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05201.htm
28-5201, says:

1. "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles that is designed, used or maintained to transport passengers or property in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise on a highway in this state, that is not exempt from the gross weight fees as prescribed in section 28-5432, subsection B and that includes any of the following:

(a) A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating of eighteen thousand one or more pounds and that is used for the purposes of intrastate commerce. (Nope, no interstate commerce in my motorhome)

(b) A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating of ten thousand one or more pounds and that is used for the purposes of interstate commerce. (Nope, no interstate commerce in my motorhome)

(c) A school bus. (No school here)

(d) A bus. (Nope, I'm a private passenger vehicle, not a Greyhound)

(e) A vehicle that transports passengers for hire and that has a design capacity for eight or more persons. (No, private, not for hire)

(f) A vehicle that is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the hazardous materials transportation authorization act of 1994 (49 United States Code sections 5101 through 5128) and that is required to be placarded under 49 Code of Federal Regulations section 172.504, as adopted by the department pursuant to this chapter. (No Hazardous stuff onboard here, well maybe if I have not dumped in a while)

I apologize in advance, I'm obviously missing something here.

Winepress, this particular section is dealing with a registration fee related to weight on these vehicles. The section dealing with the use fuel tax lists four types of vehicles that are subject to the tax. Those four types are Road Tractors, Truck Tractors, Trucks or Passenger carrying vehicles. And then it only applies to these four classes of vehicle if they have a declared vehicle weight of 26k or more, or three axles or more.

Most of us on here do not believe that a privately owned motorhome falls into any of these four categories. Clearly, based on the definition in the law, a motorhome is not any of the first three. The only possible category that could apply is "Passenger Carrying Vehicle." However, AZ law doesn't define passenger carrying vehicle. But every place else that uses the term passenger carrying vehicle defines that as a vehicle that carries passengers for hire. Everything from a Taxi to a Bus. Even Federal law defines it that way. So the debate here is not about motorhomes not being excluded by the law. We ALL agree motorhomes are not listed in the exclusions. The argument is that they should not be included at all and therefore there is no reason to exclude something that isn't included to begin with.

[msmith1199]

jlabr2 wrote:

winepress wrote:
For whatever it's worth, I travel to AZ from CA twice a year. On my way back to CA I stop at a truck stop near the border as fuel is cheaper. I use the lane that says RV's only. Fuel is taxed at the lower rate, no option for the higher price on the RV pumps.

Ok, but did you notice if the RV pump had one of those warning stickers applied to it??

It would seem to me that the simple fact that there is an RV pump that pumps diesel fuel and doesn't charge the tax must tell us something. As I pointed out, I have a 35 foot DP on a Freightliner chassis and it has a GVWR over 26k. Almost ALL diesel motorhomes are going to exceed the weight requirement. So if the law applies to diesel motorhomes, the only ones that could legally use that RV only pump would be those small Mercedes jobs with the diesel engines.

[msmith1199]

Rollnhome wrote:
How can you exempt something from a list that is not included in the list? That is my point.

That's why I'm trying to tell him but he insists on going over and over with the same rant. Nobody is disagreeing that motorhomes are not specifically excluded. We are saying the statute appears to never include them to begin with. I tried pointing out to this guy that Diesel powered VW's are excluded either, but that is because they aren't included to begin with. He couldn't even understand that.

[msmith1199]

lbligh wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:
So you got a non-answer! The question that needs answered is very simple, I wonder why they can't answer it? Is a privately owned motorhome included, and if so all Diesels that weight over 26K or have three axles? And if the answer is yes, which of the four vehicle classifications are they considering a motorhome to be?

I guess we need a remedial reading class? No answer?

there is no use fuel tax on alternative fuels and use class vehicles that are exempt pursuant to section 28-5432

OK... now lets take this slowly. Since we are right back to where I took you over the past few days, ARS 28-5432 and the ONLY EXCEPTIONS listed there, we find no RVs or motorhomes. What more of an answer could you possibly need? I forgot, you said ARS 28-5432 had nothing to do with the discussion. Seems it does indeed. Too funny.

Why don't you go bother somebody else for a while.

[Passin_Thru]

It is not a Commercial Vehicle, That's how! Read the complete paragraph 10 times, Call Arizona DOT and ask them. You read too much into this. Unless you haul passengers for hire or are a CMV hauling goods for compensation then you "ARE" Exempt fro Arizona Commercial Vehicle rules. Can it be any simpler than that. We owned a Peterbilt and ran all the lower states and I know AZ laws.

I also know Murphy's 1st law, Don't mess with Mrs Murphy.

[Rollnhome]

How can you exempt something from a list that is not included in the list? That is my point.

[Trumpet_Player]

winepress wrote:
I took a look at 28-5432. it says it applies to:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05432.htm
28-5432- This article applies to all of the following:

1. A trailer or semitrailer with a gross weight of ten thousand pounds or less and that is used in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise. (That's not me, I'm not a trailer)

2. A motor vehicle or vehicle combination if the motor vehicle or vehicle combination is designed, used or maintained primarily for the transportation of passengers for compensation or for the transportation of property. (That's not me)

3. A hearse, an ambulance or any other vehicle that is used by a mortician in the conduct of the mortician's business. (Definitely not me)

4. A commercial motor vehicle as defined in section 28-5201. (um, could be me, let's look that up)

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05201.htm
28-5201, says:

1. "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles that is designed, used or maintained to transport passengers or property in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise on a highway in this state, that is not exempt from the gross weight fees as prescribed in section 28-5432, subsection B and that includes any of the following:

(a) A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating of eighteen thousand one or more pounds and that is used for the purposes of intrastate commerce. (Nope, no interstate commerce in my motorhome)

(b) A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating of ten thousand one or more pounds and that is used for the purposes of interstate commerce. (Nope, no interstate commerce in my motorhome)

(c) A school bus. (No school here)

(d) A bus. (Nope, I'm a private passenger vehicle, not a Greyhound)

(e) A vehicle that transports passengers for hire and that has a design capacity for eight or more persons. (No, private, not for hire)

(f) A vehicle that is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the hazardous materials transportation authorization act of 1994 (49 United States Code sections 5101 through 5128) and that is required to be placarded under 49 Code of Federal Regulations section 172.504, as adopted by the department pursuant to this chapter. (No Hazardous stuff onboard here, well maybe if I have not dumped in a while)

I apologize in advance, I'm obviously missing something here.

I really don't understand what you are looking at. ARS 28-5432.C SPECIFICALLY identifies the vehicles that are EXEMPT from paying the higher fuel tax. Only those vehicles noted in the Section are exempt. No one gets to go beyond what is written there. The fact is that if your vehicle uses diesel fuel, is 26,000 pounds GVW or greater, and or has more than two axles and your vehicle is not included in the list of exempt vehicles found in the Section, it is against Arizona State law for you to fill your vehicle at the lower tax rate pumps and your are subject to the fines as noted on the consumer warning label found on each pump.

ARS 28-5432.C is written exactly as follows:

C. The following motor vehicles, trailers and semitrailers are exempt from the gross weight fee prescribed in section 28-5433:
1. A motor vehicle, trailer or semitrailer that is owned and operated by a religious institution and that is used exclusively for the transportation of property produced and distributed for charitable purposes without compensation. For the purposes of this paragraph, "religious institution" means a recognized organization that has an established place of meeting for religious worship and that holds regular meetings for that purpose at least once each week in at least five cities or towns in this state.
2. A motor vehicle, trailer or semitrailer that is owned and operated by a nonprofit school that is recognized as being tax exempt by the federal or state government if the motor vehicle, trailer or semitrailer is used exclusively for any of the following:
(a) The transportation of pupils in connection with the school curriculum.
(b) The training of pupils.
(c) The transportation of property for charitable purposes without compensation.
3. A motor vehicle, trailer or semitrailer that is owned by a nonprofit organization in this state that presents to the department a form approved by the director of the division of emergency management pursuant to section 26-318.
4. A vehicle that is owned and operated only for government purposes by a foreign government, a consul or any other official representative of a foreign government, by the United States, by a state or political subdivision of a state or by an Indian tribal government.
5. A motor vehicle that is privately owned and operated exclusively as a school bus pursuant to a contract with a school district. If a privately owned and operated school bus is temporarily operated for purposes other than those prescribed in the definition of school bus in section 28-101, the registering officer shall assess and collect a monthly gross weight fee equal to one-tenth of the annual gross weight fee prescribed by section 28-5433 for each calendar month that the motor vehicle is so operated in this state. The registering officer shall not apportion the gross weight fee for a fraction of a calendar month.

As everyone can see, there is no provision to exempt RVs.

[Trumpet_Player]

jlabr2 wrote:

lbligh wrote:
Now... should the Statute be changed to exempt RVs. Absolutely. But as it stands and as it it written now, RVs are not exempt.

Yeah, I guess so. I guess the next step is how to change it. Start writing our Reps.

Writing your State Representative is the best idea. If you recall, I stated that I have already written to our State Senator. Now will anything get done? Who knows.

Safe travels.

[winepress]

I took a look at 28-5432. it says it applies to:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05432.htm
28-5432- This article applies to all of the following:

1. A trailer or semitrailer with a gross weight of ten thousand pounds or less and that is used in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise. (That's not me, I'm not a trailer)

2. A motor vehicle or vehicle combination if the motor vehicle or vehicle combination is designed, used or maintained primarily for the transportation of passengers for compensation or for the transportation of property. (That's not me)

3. A hearse, an ambulance or any other vehicle that is used by a mortician in the conduct of the mortician's business. (Definitely not me)

4. A commercial motor vehicle as defined in section 28-5201. (um, could be me, let's look that up)

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/28/05201.htm
28-5201, says:

1. "Commercial motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles that is designed, used or maintained to transport passengers or property in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise on a highway in this state, that is not exempt from the gross weight fees as prescribed in section 28-5432, subsection B and that includes any of the following:

(a) A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating of eighteen thousand one or more pounds and that is used for the purposes of intrastate commerce. (Nope, no interstate commerce in my motorhome)

(b) A single vehicle or combination of vehicles that has a gross vehicle weight rating of ten thousand one or more pounds and that is used for the purposes of interstate commerce. (Nope, no interstate commerce in my motorhome)

(c) A school bus. (No school here)

(d) A bus. (Nope, I'm a private passenger vehicle, not a Greyhound)

(e) A vehicle that transports passengers for hire and that has a design capacity for eight or more persons. (No, private, not for hire)

(f) A vehicle that is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the hazardous materials transportation authorization act of 1994 (49 United States Code sections 5101 through 5128) and that is required to be placarded under 49 Code of Federal Regulations section 172.504, as adopted by the department pursuant to this chapter. (No Hazardous stuff onboard here, well maybe if I have not dumped in a while)

I apologize in advance, I'm obviously missing something here.

[jlabr2]

lbligh wrote:
Now... should the Statute be changed to exempt RVs. Absolutely. But as it stands and as it it written now, RVs are not exempt.

Yeah, I guess so. I guess the next step is how to change it. Start writing our Reps.