First Winter Trip South - Pls Help Us Avoid Future Divorce

[ranch_hostage]

Hi All:

First time on an RV forum, although I've been lurking here for months, and have found a lot of useful information. But since we are about to venture into potentially dangerous waters, it seems like a good time to jump in.

DH and I are planning to take our first mid-winter RV trip. We have previously only done short trips (4 to 14 days) in the summer ... and one in the late fall where we experienced frozen tank misery when crossing Montana to get back to ND. While we don't have a specific itinerary planned, we would like to visit some snowbird friends in AZ while we are down in that direction.

I've already poured over the forums for winterizing tips and information; we will probably not dewinterize until we get south enough to do so safely. We are not experienced RVers, and would like to avoid the stress of anything freezing when we need to to not be frozen.

A Little Background:

* We would love to fly to some beautifully sunny destination, but we have a special needs cat (needs subQ fluids daily), and we don't live in a region where we can easily find pet sitters. This fact, and the fact that our other two cats are like our kids (please don't judge), is what brought us to the RV world in the first place.

* Our old "rig" was a little Leisure Travel Van which worked great as a way to get from point A to point B and avoid towing a car with us, but was too small for us older folk to be comfortable. So we are about to take delivery on a Jayco Seneca 37HJ and will be flat towing our Jeep Wrangler. We are looking forward to not having to haul cats into and out of hotel rooms, or renting cars, all while enjoying the newfound comfort of our bigger rig.

* Why leave in the middle of winter? We are cattle ranchers, and our livestock count will be at its lowest after the first of the year. That is the only time we can reasonably ask a hired ranch kid to manage the remaining wintered livestock by himself for any length of time.

(Explanation over ... thanks for your patience!)

Would Love Your Advice:

1 -- Since we are leaving in the thick of winter, we probably need to get south as quickly as possible. We are in the northwestern portion of ND, so we are about as far from warmth as you can get in these lower 48. Does anyone have any thoughts on just how far south we need to get in order to dewinterize?

2 -- Does it seem feasible (if we are willing to go with no showers and bring jugs of water) to stay in open campgrounds with only an electric hookup for whatever number of nights it might take us to get to our dewinterizing destination? Or would you recommend we just plan on staying in hotels for those couple of nights?

3 -- Since we are thinking about AZ for a final destination, does anyone have any routing advice? I assume we should try and stay out of the higher elevation routes, even if it takes us longer to get there, just to avoid the snowy travel factor. Any suggestions?

4 -- Do we need to have chains for our tires at all in case of winter weather? Can you even PUT chains on a Seneca?

5 -- Can you think of anything else I need to know, or can do, to help mitigate a complete breakdown of our marriage that might be caused if we face winter RVing challenges along the way? On the one hand, I expect the inevitable. However, I believe in the motto, "If it's predictable, it's preventable."

Any help you all might be able to provide would be very much appreciated. Thank you, in advance!

[fanrgs]

GoPackGo wrote:
I drove down I-25 from Wyoming earlier this year with my 5th wheel and just went straight thru Denver on the Interstate towards Colo Springs and it was no big deal at all. Try to time it to avoid rush hours is all. And please note that the nice beltway going around Denver on the east side is a toll road. No thanks. Tim

I agree. I commuted to downtown Denver or along I-25 to the Denver Tech Center for most of my 45-year career. Coming through Denver on I-25 should be no problem if you time it for 10:00 am to 3:00 pm. That should also get you through Colorado Springs during a non-rush hour period as well. The Springs has rush hours that are as bad or worse than Denver's. Even better would be a Sunday morning.

Yes, it will be more crowded than on the Interstates in ND and MT. But, if you should have an unexpected need for a place to wait out the weather or have something done to the RV, you will have many more options than in western Montana or southern Utah.

In my earlier post, I forgot to mention another CO state park along I-25--Cheyenne Mountain SP. It is a very new park located on the south side of Colorado Springs, is open year-round, and has all paved, FHU sites, as well as modern restrooms with showers. It would be a very convenient place, depending on the weather, to spend a night if you spend the previous night someplace like Casper (350 miles). Then you should be able to get at least to Albuquerque the following night (375 miles).

[GoPackGo]

Remember that IF you don't put any water in the water tank and IF you don't use the toilet and IF you don't pour anything down the sinks, then you don't need to run your furnace during the day. I'm still trying to convince you to not use the coach until you're below the frost line - just do the motel thing while traveling - but make sure the rig is winterized when you take delivery. My favorite word is 'simple'.


I drove down I-25 from Wyoming earlier this year with my 5th wheel and just went straight thru Denver on the Interstate towards Colo Springs and it was no big deal at all. Try to time it to avoid rush hours is all. And please note that the nice beltway going around Denver on the east side is a toll road. No thanks.

Tim

[Fizz]

ranch hostage wrote:

I'm still nervous about leaving the cats in the RV when we are out sightseeing -- but I presume lots of people leave pets in their RVs when they're doing the same. This is a big step for us!

Make sure they have a view out a window. They will most likely spend the time up on the dash napping and looking.
Make sure the litter box is clean.
If it's hot keep an exhaust fan going.
Believe me they won't miss you unless you're late for supper.

[ranch_hostage]

Ok, we did not take delivery on the Seneca yesterday due to some punch list items we came up with during our walk-through. Here's what I found out:

-- It is NOT a sealed underbelly, however, they said the tanks are "inside" and that as long s our furnace is running in the coach while driving, it should not freeze up. There are no tank heaters, per se, but there is some sort of pipe that runs through them that is heated by the furnace. And there is spray foam insulation under the carriage where the tanks are located.

-- We are very happy with our dealer thus far. They have gone out of their way to "welcome" us "into their family." Nice touch.

-- I will definitely miss our nimble little Leisure Travel Van. The high-end finishes in the Unity trollop the Jayco in the price range of the Seneca, but we are looking forward to the extra room, pleasant showers, and real livability.

-- When I asked about the necessity of a "snatch strap," the saleslady had never heard of anything like that, which was obvious by her immediate embarrassment at the sound of the phrase and it's more filthier connotations. This sent everyone in the room into a 15-20 minute giggle fit. Dirty bunch, that group! 🙂

All in all, it was a good experience. I'm glad that they are willing to learn a little more about it (so they can teach us) before we drive it off the lot. Yay!!! So excited!

DH is still trying to figure out how to get around Denver, rather than go through ... any ideas?

[patperry2766]

My dad worked in the oilfields in ND, WY, UT and MT before he got transferred to West Texas. He ALWAYS kept a box of canned food (beans, tuna, vienna sausage), can opener, plastic spoons, bowls, crackers, etc....basically non-perishable foods that wouldn't be affected by the weather and had a long shelf life, 3 blankets, and a can of gasoline in the trunk of his car....even after we moved to Texas.

He instilled in me to start looking for a gas station anytime the needle got below 1/2 tank and to keep enough warm clothes/blankets handy in case you get stranded for a couple of days. When I was a youngster, I could put chains on with the best of them in addition to being a master with the ice scraper.

According to him, many cans of beans were warmed on the exhaust manifolds of the oilfield equipment. To this day, he despises the cold weather. When I was a youngster, I would pull out some of his cold weather clothing and put it on. I looked like Ralphie off the Christmas Story.

The farther South you get, the less prepared people are for snow, sleet & ice. We've had a couple of bad ice storms over the last couple of years that have shut down the area for a couple of days. Pack plenty of movies and other ways to entertain yourselves if you get stranded.

[wa8yxm]

Why Fly,, Very hard to stop and smell the roses when you are flying (Find an attraction just off your route you wish to visit)

First: Winterize RV by DRY method (Blowing out lines) then before you leave get and sanatize a couple of 5 gallon Jerry Cans or other water containers, also some gallon jugs (recycled milk bottle, or a water bottle (Buy a gallons of distilled and top off your batteries or a gallon of spring water) and a funnel (to refill the gallon jug with)

Carry these INSIDE the RV, you can refill on the road if needed.

Once you are south of the Jack Frost line (Which is south of the Mason Dixon line by the way) you can then fill up your house system, sanatize if you feel the need. And stow the jugs for the trip north.

IF you head north before spring,, Same procedure when you get to the Jack Frost line, blow 'em out (you do carry a tank type air compressor right, I know I do) and go back to water inside.. Dump the wast tanks often and use the Truck Stop/Wal*mart/Campground toilets and such as much as possible.

You can also flush toilets with Pink Stuff (RV Antifreeze) if you do not have water in the system.

[ranch_hostage]

You know what? I am simply overwhelming with gratitude for all of your input. Every bit of it has been so helpful. Thank you!

We dropped off our Jeep for its tow bar installation today, and are taking delivery on the Seneca tomorrow. I sure will have lots more questions for the tech during our walk-through, thanks to you all!

We will probably walk out of there with about another $1000 worth of add-on stuff for insulating, monitoring, heating, emergencies, etc. (Yikes!)

We are also really thankful for all your great suggestions for routes, places to stay, etc.

I'm still nervous about leaving the cats in the RV when we are out sightseeing -- but I presume lots of people leave pets in their RVs when they're doing the same. This is a big step for us!

[fanrgs]

GoPackGo wrote:
Traveling in the middle of winter I would stick to the interstates until below the snow line. Wait for a weather window lasting several days, then go south in a straight line until below the snow line, THEN go west.

Agree with using the Interstate to get south quickly. If I-94 to I-25 is the nearest route to NM & AZ for you, I would recommend it over I-15 and traveling west on I-90 through more of Montana. There are more big cities, open (not seasonal) RV parks, Camping World and Walmart stores, and motels (if needed) along I-25 if you have to wait out the weather.

There are also a number of State parks along I-25 in Colorado that are open year-round. Each has 30A/50A electricity, water, sewer or RV dumps, and modern, heated restrooms with hot (pay) showers. We stayed in one in Trinidad (Trinidad Lake State Park) last winter on our way to NM and AZ. We really enjoyed the FHU site in a campground with maybe 5 other campers. Other SPs along I-25 include Boyd Lake, Chatfield Lake, Cherry Creek, Pueblo Reservoir, and Lathrop (near Walsenburg). Incidentally, we have had considerably below freezing nights as far south on I-25 as Santa Fe. So, electric heat tape wrapped around your water hose can be useful even in NM and AZ.

We often travel with a collapsible, five-gallon container of water in the bed of our truck (summer) or in our shower (winter). We used it on our Alaska trip so we could stay overnight wherever we stopped and because I like to travel with empty tanks due to our small tow vehicle. But we have also used it on winter trips for washing, cooking, and the toilet. We have 12v tank heaters on all three tanks, but they use a lot of battery, especially if we are running the furnace too (we don't carry a generator). But, if we have an electric site, we definitely run the tank heaters.

If you stay on I-25 to I-10 at Las Cruces, our favorite RV park there is Sunny Acres. It is a small, older, 55+ park with lots of snowbirds, great shade trees, clubroom and laundry, and walking distance to grocery and dollar stores. Along I-10 in AZ, one of our favorite parks anywhere is Butterfield RV Resort in Benson. It has morning coffee for the snowbirds, an astronomical observatory with nightly programs, a clubhouse, a community room, a laundry, a beautiful heated pool, asphalt spaces for short-timers, and gravel spaces for seasonal residents. It is conveniently adjacent to Safeway and within walking distance of Walmart. We met a couple there last February who have come down from their farm in Saskatchewan for the past eight winters.

One of the best comments I have heard to describe Quartzite is that it is "where full-timers RVers in $500,000 motor coaches go for free camping." And, if you aren't fond of crowds, you might want to stay for just a short visit in the Phoenix area. A small RV park there may have 200 very full, very crowded spaces. An expensive RV "resort" will likely have over 1,000 completely filled spaces. So, Phoenix is just Quartzite with FHU sites and golf courses. Oh, and Cactus League spring training!

To check out park reviews by other RVers, go to RV Park Reviews.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

Ranch Hostage (I love your name!) - we too travel a lot in the winter when business is slow; and even last winter while in mid-Florida, there were some nights when we had to re-winterize. If you don't have a 3-way valve at the front of your water pump, so you can suck RV antifreeze directly out of the bottle - you'll want to! We can be winterized in about 10 minutes flat....LOL!

I cut Reflectix (foil-covered bubblewrap insulation) to fit my windows; and with the overhead vents filled by insulating pillows, we camped several nights in single-digit temps and stayed comfy utilizing our electric heater, and the furnace set to back it up if the temp inside fell below 64 or so. Normally, in "warm" cold weather (mid-20;s and above), we used the toilet, just adding pink antifreeze rather than water to flush. But last year, knowing we were going to be traveling in bitter cold, I did a bit of research and discovered that urine can freeze in the mid-20's. So last year, we utilized a porta-potti for those nighttime "visits"; and the RV park's restrooms for showering and anything else.

We've driven through some seriously rotten weather - either ice storms or near-blizzards; and while it's not fun, the RVs seemed to handle it OK, as long as you're cautious and leave plenty of room. Always leave a few extra days of down-time, in case you need to sit out a storm. Last winter, we were literally dodging storms like you'd cross a busy street: let one go by - then race to cross ahead of the next one. I'm PRAYING we don't have a winter like that again.

I'd still rather stay in my own bed and "home", than a hotel

And lastly, keep the fuel tanks filled. Drive on the top half of the tank, not the bottom. More weight for traction - and plenty of fuel for the generator if need be.

[Ron3rd]

Ranch Hostage, regarding 4 season trailers; you indicated you were not sure if you had one. These types generally have sealed underbellys and tank heaters. If you have such, you'll see switches for the tank heaters on your control panel. As to Quartzite, they have a big following but it's not everybody's cup of tea. Most of the camping is primitive with no hookups. It can get very windy there at times. Great place to visit if that's your thing.

[ranch_hostage]

This is ALL really good advice. DH agrees with some of you that it might be safer and less hassle (except for the packing the cats and all their stuff in and out) to stay in a hotel until after the snow line. I am a little more adventurous, personally, but as my original post implied, I want to remain married after this trip!

Weatherbase -- check.
Altitude matters -- check.
Interstate until after the snow line -- check.
We are pretty laid back people who don't like crowds; Quartzite may be a stretch for us. 😉

Revised list of extra stuff for winter travel: Tarps, chains, snap-strap (Thanks, Allen), antifreeze, maybe a shovel, more cat litter than we need, gallons of water, more antifreeze ... plus our double sleeping bag.

Again, you all are wonderful. Thank you!

[Chiefcpo]

Allen thanks for the correction. Bob

[allen8106]

A snatch strap is a tow strap that will stretch when you pull on it and snatch a stuck vehicle out of where ever it is stuck.

[Chiefcpo]

Leave the SAND and buy extra cat litter, It will be used not dumped in the summer. Snap-strap in a heavy tow strap or chain.
Goog luck happy travels.

[GoPackGo]

Jim Shoe wrote:
Check Weatherbase when making your plans. Its free, and shows you all kinds of weather info (including snowfall), by city, by month over several years. Its amazing how much altitude above sea level has on our weather, countrywide.
Flagstaff, AZ. is hot, right? Flagstaff has averaged over 10 inches of snow in December over the last 100 years.
None of this means that it will be lousy weather - only that it might, so that you can make good decisions.

\

I'm in Phoenix right now. Highs in the 80's and lows in the mid/upper 50's.

Flagstaff 10 day forecast has highs in the 40's - 60's and lows in the 20's and 30's.

Seems like 2 different states.

Tim