Mind boggled...

[ruthiebaby88]

Hello,

I have been researching RVs and going back and forth between different types for weeks now. I wish I could take them all out for a test drive in a snow storm and then choose!

My options are an older Class B or C motorhome, a T@B type or similar travel trailer, or a pickup/camper (would have to purchse the pickup).

I want something small and convenient where I can drive while focusing on listening to my audiobook without a worry and where I can camp with the focus being on the camping and not on maintaining the rig.

I want to go boondocking.

I don't want my fun to be limited by season. I love to ski, snowshoe, snowboard and I want showers in the winter.

I was all set to by a T@B since it's down the road and that was the easiest option to pull with my Subaru, then my mom refused to ride with me due to the risks of towing on snowy roads.

I am not at all confident about driving the Class B or C on snowy roads since the majority of them under 60k are rear wheel drive. My only experience with rear wheel drive is helping other motorists who are stuck - or watching them spin around the highway. I always shake my head and wonder why anyone would ever buy one of those!

This led me to the pickup with camper option. You get 4wd and some are meant to be used in 4 seasons. Then we come to the hard part - my budget is 16k - not much to buy a pickup and camper!

I am very interested in hearing from people who have tried different classes of RVs.

Which type of RV was best for handling on bad roads - safety while driving. I don't wanna know it's possible to drive it in the mountains, I wanna know it's easy. I don't like white knuckle drives and want to focus on the scenery and whatever's on the radio - not on controlling an unwieldy vehicle.

Which type of RV is best for boondocking.

Which type of RV is best for 4 season camping?

In my budget, I'm generally looking at things in the 10-20 year old category unless I get the T@B in which case I can afford a 2014.

Thank you for your time!

[bikendan]

I think she's talking about a Palomino truck camper that has roof that pops up with some short canvas walls, NOT a conventional popup.
these type of TC's allow for a shorter profile.

[Jim-Linda]

ruthiebaby88 wrote:
Thank you for your feedback! I would love an Arctic Fox, but don't think I will be able to afford one. Any suggestions for similar but cheaper versions?

Also I will not be living in the RV, but only using it for a few days. So I don't need to be as warm myself.

I would like to be able to get by for say 3 days boondocking without my waterworks freezing and destroying the place.

I looked at a Palomino pop up today. Popup is good for so many reasons r/t better clearance, better MPG, better in wind. Only downside is much worse in winter. I talked to salesmen at 3 different dealerships who all thought that everything would stay warm enough with the heater running to keep water liquid. I did notice that the 22g tank is located in the pickup bed under the dinette seat - so it wouldn't be directly exposed to the outside. It's across the 'hall' from the heater.

I wonder if it would stay warm enough not to freeze as long as I heat the camper to 50 or so. Has a 20,000 btu propane heater. I also expect to use electric space heaters. The waste water tanks were under the shower so they may be more susceptible to cold. Is there an easy fix for that? Someone mentioned putting something in the wastewater tanks?

Anyone tried ski weekends in a pop up truck camper?

Confusion!! you say you want to boondock, then you say you will use electric heat, where are you getting the electric for the heater?

Jim

[SteveAE]

ruthiebaby,

Pop up campers are great and you will "survive", but the question is how comfortable you will be...and how much money you will spend to make it "comfortable enough"? And for only a few nights a year, I suspect you would be further ahead to just get a motel.

Get a pop up (if that what interests you) for spring, summer and fall trips as you'll have a ball with it. But if the need is truly winter (i.e.; temps in the teens or lower), then I wouldn't waste my money.

Just my two cents worth (and I know two cents doesn't buy much anymore).

Steve

[ruthiebaby88]

Thank you for your feedback! I would love an Arctic Fox, but don't think I will be able to afford one. Any suggestions for similar but cheaper versions?

Also I will not be living in the RV, but only using it for a few days. So I don't need to be as warm myself.

I would like to be able to get by for say 3 days boondocking without my waterworks freezing and destroying the place.

I looked at a Palomino pop up today. Popup is good for so many reasons r/t better clearance, better MPG, better in wind. Only downside is much worse in winter. I talked to salesmen at 3 different dealerships who all thought that everything would stay warm enough with the heater running to keep water liquid. I did notice that the 22g tank is located in the pickup bed under the dinette seat - so it wouldn't be directly exposed to the outside. It's across the 'hall' from the heater.

I wonder if it would stay warm enough not to freeze as long as I heat the camper to 50 or so. Has a 20,000 btu propane heater. I also expect to use electric space heaters. The waste water tanks were under the shower so they may be more susceptible to cold. Is there an easy fix for that? Someone mentioned putting something in the wastewater tanks?

Anyone tried ski weekends in a pop up truck camper?

[bikendan]

The T@B isn't appropriate for that cold of weather.
to do what you want, you need a true 4-season RV, like Arctic Fox.

[brholt]

ruthiebaby88 wrote:
Also my HOA does not allow RV parking in our lot (I live in a townhouse). Have other people had experience with this - I wonder if the pickup camper, van or 19ft would also be excluded even though they fit in a standard spot. My garage door has only 7ft clearance.

I might be able to fit a pickup camper in there, but it would have to be removed from the pickup and then somehow rolled into the garage since it would be too tall to drive in. Has anyone tried this?

Otherwise I will be paying for storage.

Interesting enough truck campers are often not legally defined as recreational vehicles. Many times they are just "cargo" for a pick up truck. You would have to check the exact words used in you HOA rules.

Yes, you can search the truck camper forums for "dollies" people have made or purchased to move a camper. Pop up truck campers will fit better.

[rfryer]

“RFRYER - Did you mean 4wd RV? so you've tried a 4wd RV, pickup with camper and a travel trailer?”


I was referring to a 4wd Class B. Not many of those around and B’s are very expensive anyway. My TV’s were a Ford Bronco and an F150, both 4wd. I towed a Coleman PU and a 16’ TT with them. I don’t have any firsthand experience with a TC. A friend had one but that was eons ago and I don’t remember it well enough to even comment on it. But I see them in the boonies all the time and they do well off pavement, unless they have conflicts with low tree branches in heavily forested areas.

Speaking in generalities, I think you’ll find any type of MH will be more expensive to operate than a TV and a towed RV. One example doesn’t prove anything, but my 16’ TT is 25 years old and until the frig went out a couple of years ago I had put $2000 in new tires and repairs into it. I know people with Class A’s who’ve spent that much replacing a set of tires.

My theory about conserving is that it costs me a good deal more to replace my TV than a car. So my F150 is mainly my TV and I use an older car for my local traveling. But it needs driven at least once weekly, vehicles do not like extended periods of sitting idle. Whether that’s cheaper than using the TV as a daily driver I don’t know, I just suspect it is and that’s the way I do it.

[NoVa_RT]

You may have to make some compromises. Most Class B's don't have much ground clearance, and even the rare 4-wheel drive units may be better suited for driving on the beach than off-road. Older units often come with maintenance issues, so budget accordingly. Any kind of RV is less than ideal in harsh winter conditions, as they have very little insulation. Do your own research on what you can tow, since dealers tend to give out unreliable info ("Sure, you can tow this with your current vehicle"). Figure out what comes closest to your ideal, even if it's only for 3 seasons, and have fun.

[SteveAE]

ruthiebaby,

We have a 21' hard sided travel trailer. It was rated as a four season trailer....for whatever that means.
We bought it mainly to use in the Fall, Winter, and Spring months for hiking, canoeing, skiing and snowshoeing trips. In the summer, we are more often sleeping in a tent....or under the stars .... on rafting trips.

Towing a trailer in the winter isn't as bad as you might think. Look around you will see lots of trailers, from snowmobile trailers to trucks. Just take it slow and use common sense. And the neat thing is that if gets too bad (or you just want an excuse), you can pull over and wait it out in style (think hot chocolate and popcorn) while the folks in Subaru's are stressed out looking for a place to pee.

Anyway, that's my take on it. You are getting lots of great suggestions and I am sure you will come up with what's best for you.

Steve

[rexlion]

I would get the trailer; and if Mom doesn't want to go, I'd say, "see ya in a few days!" and I'd go camping. 😉

But I want to make sure you're realistic about the shower thing. That T@b has a 10 gallon fresh water tank. That's the same as my former 16' KZ trailer. The water outlet on my tank was not right at the bottom, so a gallon or more always stayed in the tank; the pump could not draw it out. So, 8.5 or 9 useable gallons at most. The point is, your showers will be very skimpy.

Next problem is, in Idaho winters I doubt you will want to have any water in the T@b's tank at all. It would freeze.

On the plus side, the Subaru should handle well on slick roads... possibly better than a pickup would.

[ruthiebaby88]

Also my HOA does not allow RV parking in our lot (I live in a townhouse). Have other people had experience with this - I wonder if the pickup camper, van or 19ft would also be excluded even though they fit in a standard spot. My garage door has only 7ft clearance.

I might be able to fit a pickup camper in there, but it would have to be removed from the pickup and then somehow rolled into the garage since it would be too tall to drive in. Has anyone tried this?

Otherwise I will be paying for storage.

[ruthiebaby88]

Oh I forgot to say thank you for all of your thoughtful replies.

This is a great forum with that quick response!

[ruthiebaby88]

I should clarify boondocking - I love to go to places that are not campgrounds and stay overnight. Campgrounds are not always present, and if they are they often don't have any facilities in Idaho. Places without campgrounds and sometimes the most amazing spots! I don't like the idea of being tied to campground hookups like an umbilical cord. I wanna go where I wanna go.

I want 4wd largely for the handling on bad roads and for the clearance. I don't think it's fun to 4wd trails simply because they are difficult to drive. I want to get there so I can get out of the car and have fun exploring the nature. I will try to avoid bad weather driving, but in the mountains sometimes it sneaks up on you.

I do have a regular job though so most of the use will be just for a few days. Currently I have a month off, but that is highly unusual! I'm not planning on living off the grid for long periods of time, though the idea is exciting.

I would like to take showers because Tim's idea of fun (and mine once I get back into shape) is to run a 10-15 mile mountain trail in the morning. So although usually I wouldn't mind not showering on a camping trip - when you are all sticky and salty after a long run it's pretty distracting and nothing does the clean up quite like running water.

Does a truck+camper tend to cost more than a Class B or small Class C motorhome? What about maintenance expenses over the years? Would a truck engine require more/less maintenance than an RV engine? A truck camper require less maintenance than a trailer since there's no drive train?

Steve - were you snow camping in a T@B - I did a search on that and it seemed people had trouble staying warm? I want to at least be able to handle lows in the 0 range - although -10 would be a safer bet.

Do people have trouble with their trailers being stolen when left unattended? That is a lot of money if anyone with a hitch could just pull it away while we are out exploring.

RFRYER - Did you mean 4wd RV? so you've tried a 4wd RV, pickup with camper and a travel trailer?

The more I think about it the more I'm loving the truck camper idea - but worried about the year long cost of owing another vehicle.

Since trucks are expensive - do you think it's better to have a vacation truck and conserve the miles on it so that it will last longer by using a separate town commuter vehicle? Or just use the truck for commuting and replace it when it's used up? I commute about 92m/week - Tim commutes about 190m/week.

It feels wasteful driving a truck for short trips around town, but Tim says that they are getting better gas mileage these days.

[Dakota98]

What do you define as " boondocking " ?

[rfryer]

I agree with brholt’s comments. If you want to do any serious boondocking you need to think small, high clearance, and 4wd. Small might conflict with your “showers in the winter” idea since small units have limited capacities for water, propane and battery power and boondocking is generally an exercise in conserving resources. I don’t know if there’s a “type” of RV most suitable for 4 seasons, I think it’s primarily whether the type of unit is built for severe weather.

I’ve driven a lot in severe weather conditions in the mountains on hunting trips with a 4wd TV and a PU and small TT. While I wouldn’t call it white knuckle, neither was it “easy”. There’s always a degree of tension about hitting a patch of ice, navigating narrow, rough roads, especially if they’re snow covered and you can’t see the ditches, and getting stuck in the mud. I’ve stuck my 4wd a number of times. Sometimes I could get it out, others I just hunkered down and waited until the middle of the night for the ground to freeze and then drove out. I rarely used the TT, even my 16’ 3000# TT was a handful in those conditions. The PU worked OK, but it wasn’t ideal for severe weather. Again the issue of capacities and keeping it heated.

I wouldn’t consider driving a Class C in those conditions. Maybe a TC or 4wd B. Even my small TT was OK if I didn’t try to get much off the pavement. Of course in good weather conditions just about anything would work for you. But for boondocking I go back to my small, high 4wd comment. Good luck.