Pay or No Pay?

[tapiper]

This seems to be a hot topic with a lot of workampers so I thought I would post my 2 cents worth.

Essentially, there are 2 types of workamping positions:
A. Positions where the campground pays the workamper
B. Positions where the workamper pays the campground for the privilege of working there.

Most advertised positions fall within type B above. The ad may read "volunteer", which means the campground will gain at the expense of the workamper's time and efforts. Another prevalent ad might read "work 40 hours a week, the first 25 hours for the FHU and the balance of hours receive pay at $10 per hour." That's 100 hours per month at $10 or $1,000 per month. So, in reality the workamper is paying the campground $1,000 to be there. One recent ad even stated that the workamper would be paid $12 for every hour worked and the cost of their site and utilities would be deducted from their check each pay period. This would mean the workamper would then receive a W-2 at the end of the year and have to pay taxes on money they never got to see. The campground sells a site and only has to pay for the extra hours which came to $631 or less than $4 per hour for the workamper over 40 hours.

I know there are plenty of people who jump at this offer, but to me it doesn't fly. Type A positions are what I look for. They will read "Perform duties for X hours per week, compensation is $X per hour for all hours worked, FHU and utilities, use of facility and amenities." These are campgrounds that actually value their workampers.

[wapiticountry]

valhalla360 wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:
See if working for Walmart gets you a free place to park with full hookups. I bet at that Walmart job you won’t have the ability to roll out of bed and be to work in 60 seconds. Seldom are the Walmart’s of the world located near national parks and other tourist destinations. I bet the work schedules aren’t as flexible and the jobs not as easy as most Workcamper positions. But if you attach no value to those points Workcamping is a bad deal.

Are you implying workcampers are lazy and unable to get up on time? Seems odd criteria.

Walmart is something completely different. I would be looking to work at a shop near the tourist area...which is likely has campgrounds nearby.

When you workamp you are on site. No commute needed. You are there to walk your dog, to make a better lunch than a sandwich, to be at your home should you need something or if something goes wrong. To many people that is a valuable benefit of workamping.
A workamper position is basically unskilled labor. If you have special skills and training that commands high pay good for you. Doctors, lawyers, hedge fund managers and Fortune 500 CEOs make huge wages, but that doesn’t matter to a park hiring workers. That $500 an hour lawyer will only get $10 an hour as a workamper if that is what the going rate for workampers is.

If you don't have a dog, that's not relevant, though most properly trained dogs can handle 4-6hr by themselves without problem. Assuming it's a part time job, you can probably get scheduled to be home for lunch if that's important to you.

No, you aren't going to make $500/hr...of course, bringing that up suggests you don't understand what professionals make in the first place. $500/hr is what the client pays. The lawyer doesn't get anything close to that. Same as when your RV mechanic charges $100/hr but the mechanic makes $25/hr.

Of course, in tourist areas right now, if you have a decent work history and present yourself well, $15-20 should be possible...particularly if you come back to the same place multiple years.

Really? The lawyer doesn't just pocket the entire fee? And the mechanic doesn't get the hundreds of dollars I pay the dealership to replace the AC unit? I suppose you are also going to tell me that when I pay for my dinner at the restaurant the waiter or waitress doesn't get to keep all that money and the clerk at grocery store can't just put the hundred bucks I paid for lobsters into his/her pocket? Who would have thunk it? It is truly a deceptive world. At least we can be sure Horse Racing and Pro Wrestling isn't rigged.

[time2roll]

If money is critical then by all means get the highest paid position that includes good full time wages, free spot and any other benefits. Sometimes there is a reason for the higher payments and may not be the casual retirement some are seeking. Find the best fit for your individual needs. For example some places have a maximum 2 week stay but if you workcamp/host maybe you can be at your favorite campground all summer.

[wowens79]

Lantley wrote:
My thought is that work camping involves work while you camp. Not to be confused with straight work which does not involve camping.
Work camping allows you to be in a CG atmosphere and recieve compensation vs. being in a CG atmosphere and not recieve any compensation.
If that compensation involves a free site it sure beats paying for that site.
Especially if you have more time than money. Giving up your time vs. giving up your money is a favorable transaction for many work campers.
Many work campers are willing to sacrifice their time, because it allows them to stay at the CG. They are not interested in a straight job.
Work camping is not about the financial or monetary reward.
The primary reward/goal is to be at a CG. Being able to be at a CG for reduced or no cost is a even better reward.
In short work camping is not about the salary it's about camping. Camping is the primary goal. Being at a CG is the reward if you don't grasp that concept you will never understand the motivation for work camping.

I agree with this. I'm still in the 9-5 rat race for a few more years, but the wife and I have talked about the workcamp gig, and have a friend that does it.
I see workcamping as more of a fun part time gig. You get to hangout at a campground, meet people, stay at a nice place, and get a free campsite, and maybe a little play money. Most of the places we've been it seems like the workcampers have a good time.

[Lantley]

My thought is that work camping involves work while you camp. Not to be confused with straight work which does not involve camping.
Work camping allows you to be in a CG atmosphere and recieve compensation vs. being in a CG atmosphere and not recieve any compensation.
If that compensation involves a free site it sure beats paying for that site.
Especially if you have more time than money. Giving up your time vs. giving up your money is a favorable transaction for many work campers.
Many work campers are willing to sacrifice their time, because it allows them to stay at the CG. They are not interested in a straight job.
Work camping is not about the financial or monetary reward.
The primary reward/goal is to be at a CG. Being able to be at a CG for reduced or no cost is a even better reward.
In short work camping is not about the salary it's about camping. Camping is the primary goal. Being at a CG is the reward if you don't grasp that concept you will never understand the motivation for work camping.

[FWC]

wapiticountry wrote:
When you workamp you are on site. No commute needed. You are there to walk your dog, to make a better lunch than a sandwich, to be at your home should you need something or if something goes wrong. To many people that is a valuable benefit of workamping.
A workamper position is basically unskilled labor. If you have special skills and training that commands high pay good for you. Doctors, lawyers, hedge fund managers and Fortune 500 CEOs make huge wages, but that doesn’t matter to a park hiring workers. That $500 an hour lawyer will only get $10 an hour as a workamper if that is what the going rate for workampers is.

It seems that most of these gigs pay $10 - $15 an hour without benefits, which in many places is close to minimum wage. I am not suggesting they pay more than that for what is essentially unskilled labor, particularly if they can fill the spots. What I am suggesting is that if this is a straight financial decision (ie you are workamping for the income and/or site fees) then you should also consider other forms of income that maybe be more lucrative and stimulating and just pay for the campsite.

In the current environment, there are a lot of jobs that can be done remotely so you can still work from your campsite for a week or two a month and come out ahead. This is not for everyone, if you are a carpenter or real estate agent, then remote work would be hard, but for many professionals this could be an option to consider.

I think there is a tendency to get distracted by 'free campsite' and not do a thorough analysis as to whether it is fair compensation, or the business owner is taking advantage of you.

[Twomed]

Have done it both ways... Please keep in mind that in some states you will/may subject your other income (pension/SS/IRA disbursements) to the tax laws of the state where you work kamp for wages. Some tax a portion, some a large chunk further reducing your hourly wage!!

In any case the filing can be quite a time consuming ordeal....make sure it is worth while. Volunteering may be a better deal in those states if you just want to stay in an area for awhile.

[valhalla360]

wapiticountry wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:
See if working for Walmart gets you a free place to park with full hookups. I bet at that Walmart job you won’t have the ability to roll out of bed and be to work in 60 seconds. Seldom are the Walmart’s of the world located near national parks and other tourist destinations. I bet the work schedules aren’t as flexible and the jobs not as easy as most Workcamper positions. But if you attach no value to those points Workcamping is a bad deal.

Are you implying workcampers are lazy and unable to get up on time? Seems odd criteria.

Walmart is something completely different. I would be looking to work at a shop near the tourist area...which is likely has campgrounds nearby.

When you workamp you are on site. No commute needed. You are there to walk your dog, to make a better lunch than a sandwich, to be at your home should you need something or if something goes wrong. To many people that is a valuable benefit of workamping.
A workamper position is basically unskilled labor. If you have special skills and training that commands high pay good for you. Doctors, lawyers, hedge fund managers and Fortune 500 CEOs make huge wages, but that doesn’t matter to a park hiring workers. That $500 an hour lawyer will only get $10 an hour as a workamper if that is what the going rate for workampers is.

If you don't have a dog, that's not relevant, though most properly trained dogs can handle 4-6hr by themselves without problem. Assuming it's a part time job, you can probably get scheduled to be home for lunch if that's important to you.

No, you aren't going to make $500/hr...of course, bringing that up suggests you don't understand what professionals make in the first place. $500/hr is what the client pays. The lawyer doesn't get anything close to that. Same as when your RV mechanic charges $100/hr but the mechanic makes $25/hr.

Of course, in tourist areas right now, if you have a decent work history and present yourself well, $15-20 should be possible...particularly if you come back to the same place multiple years.

[wapiticountry]

valhalla360 wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:
See if working for Walmart gets you a free place to park with full hookups. I bet at that Walmart job you won’t have the ability to roll out of bed and be to work in 60 seconds. Seldom are the Walmart’s of the world located near national parks and other tourist destinations. I bet the work schedules aren’t as flexible and the jobs not as easy as most Workcamper positions. But if you attach no value to those points Workcamping is a bad deal.

Are you implying workcampers are lazy and unable to get up on time? Seems odd criteria.

Walmart is something completely different. I would be looking to work at a shop near the tourist area...which is likely has campgrounds nearby.

When you workamp you are on site. No commute needed. You are there to walk your dog, to make a better lunch than a sandwich, to be at your home should you need something or if something goes wrong. To many people that is a valuable benefit of workamping.
A workamper position is basically unskilled labor. If you have special skills and training that commands high pay good for you. Doctors, lawyers, hedge fund managers and Fortune 500 CEOs make huge wages, but that doesn’t matter to a park hiring workers. That $500 an hour lawyer will only get $10 an hour as a workamper if that is what the going rate for workampers is.

[toedtoes]

FWC wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:
See if working for Walmart gets you a free place to park with full hookups. I bet at that Walmart job you won’t have the ability to roll out of bed and be to work in 60 seconds. Seldom are the Walmart’s of the world located near national parks and other tourist destinations. I bet the work schedules aren’t as flexible and the jobs not as easy as most Workcamper positions. But if you attach no value to those points Workcamping is a bad deal.

Agreed. But for many of us the choice is not between work camping or working at Walmart. My point was that I am not willing to work for less than market rate in order to increase someone else's profit margin.

If the idea is just to cover living expenses, then I will spend a week a month working remotely at my real job, and have the other 3 weeks free to do what I want. However if the opportunity is fulfilling in some other way, say volunteering at a National Park then I am happy to straight volunteer, and if they give a free campsite, all the better.

I agree with this.

For me, workamping isn't meant to make money, it's a way to subsidize the camping. If I needed to make money, I would get a better job. If I wanted to spend 3 months in a great campground that had a 14-day limit and costs $26 per night, I would consider workamping to bypass the stay limit and drop the nightly cost.

[valhalla360]

wapiticountry wrote:
See if working for Walmart gets you a free place to park with full hookups. I bet at that Walmart job you won’t have the ability to roll out of bed and be to work in 60 seconds. Seldom are the Walmart’s of the world located near national parks and other tourist destinations. I bet the work schedules aren’t as flexible and the jobs not as easy as most Workcamper positions. But if you attach no value to those points Workcamping is a bad deal.

Are you implying workcampers are lazy and unable to get up on time? Seems odd criteria.

Walmart is something completely different. I would be looking to work at a shop near the tourist area...which is likely has campgrounds nearby.

[FWC]

wapiticountry wrote:
See if working for Walmart gets you a free place to park with full hookups. I bet at that Walmart job you won’t have the ability to roll out of bed and be to work in 60 seconds. Seldom are the Walmart’s of the world located near national parks and other tourist destinations. I bet the work schedules aren’t as flexible and the jobs not as easy as most Workcamper positions. But if you attach no value to those points Workcamping is a bad deal.

Agreed. But for many of us the choice is not between work camping or working at Walmart. My point was that I am not willing to work for less than market rate in order to increase someone else's profit margin.

If the idea is just to cover living expenses, then I will spend a week a month working remotely at my real job, and have the other 3 weeks free to do what I want. However if the opportunity is fulfilling in some other way, say volunteering at a National Park then I am happy to straight volunteer, and if they give a free campsite, all the better.

[TexasShadow]

we did camp host volunteering for a few years at a state park we liked, but we only did it a month at a time. then it got to where the parks demanded the hosts volunteer for the whole season and that was too long for us.
but the "job" was easy enough and pleasant...just checking folks in and out and keeping restrooms stocked with paper supplies and reporting messes or unruly guests etc to the office, or calling the state police if necessary...which never was.

[wapiticountry]

See if working for Walmart gets you a free place to park with full hookups. I bet at that Walmart job you won’t have the ability to roll out of bed and be to work in 60 seconds. Seldom are the Walmart’s of the world located near national parks and other tourist destinations. I bet the work schedules aren’t as flexible and the jobs not as easy as most Workcamper positions. But if you attach no value to those points Workcamping is a bad deal.

[FWC]

I think a type B gig would be OK if it is for a good cause, like supporting public lands by volunteering for the USFS, NPS, BLM etc. There is no way I would take a type B gig (or a type A gig for that matter) for a private for profit entity. If the goal is to be paid for work, then there are much more lucrative and stimulating opportunities than working in a campground.