ProPride and lifted 3500

[ApexAZ]

Hi all,

We just applied for financing on a 2021 Fuel F-287.

Assuming the loan gets approved, we should be picking the unit up on the 18th. I have a 2020 Denali 3500 SRW that I put a 4" suspension lift and larger 35" tires on, which put us just a wee bit too high to fit a 5th wheel, so we opted for a bumper pull.

A couple questions I have are:

My truck is rated at 20k conventional hitch weight with 2k tongue weight, and a CGVW of 29700. The trailer has a GVWR of 12,800 and I'm guessing the truck probably weighs in around 8500 curb weight (I plan to try and weigh it soon if I can find a place), which will put me at around 22.5k max combined weight when factoring in passengers and added cargo. Obviously the lift and bigger tires reduce capacity, but does anyone know just how much? I'll still be about 7k under the stock CGVW and conventional hitch figure.

Does anyone have a similar truck who have upgraded their brakes? Is this an option to improve stopping power?

I'm looking at the ProPride 3P hitch. Trailer sway makes me nervous and the lift compounds that. I'm hoping this will make towing safer. Anyone have experience with these and are they worth the $? If they work as advertised, it seems like money well spent for added safety. Any cons? It seems to add a few feet to overall length. Should I assume I'll need some air bags too?

I have seen several comments on various forums that people replace the stock hitch receiver with a class 5. In looking at some of those, the ratings are all very similar to that 2k/20k capacity, so I'm wondering if that's something I should worry about, or is the stock one already a class 5 and sufficient? I can't seem to find any info on the GMC pages.

Thanks so much!

Brian

[ApexAZ]

blt2ski wrote:
To have deformed springs in one trip would take way more wieght on you RA than most of us will ever put on our trucks as personal/RV rigs. I've had trailer springs deform I the 50-70k mile range loaded at 80-100% ratings all the time. Truck springs with constant 80+% loads of gravel, soil, etc in landscape construction biz in 100k miles.
I've not seen it except 20+ years down the road in personal use rigs.

Also, remember, your trailer go to the dealer on a trailer, or more likely, pulled behind a 35 series rig with no bars. Don't worry!

Marty

Thank you!

[Grit_dog]

blt2ski wrote:


I noticed the change in my truck from a 31.5 to 32.5 tires. Also 10 lbs heavier! Latter is probably the biggest part. Then I only have a 4.3 V6. Raised it 2". I'm now about a 3.2 effective vs the 3.42 stock. Even at that, It does good. Lost 1-2 mpg tho.....

You being lifted, taller tires. I'm not going to say my experience is equal.


Marty

Your experience is right on. I'm over 1500lbs tongue weight for sure on the new giddyup and the only effect it has, is it's probably helping my front end and front tires last longer. Drives the same.

Big tires and lifts are mpg killers for sure. Firs't lifted rig that I've had that wasn't jsut a toy and has a working fuel gauge! lol
37s, 6" lift, 3.42 gears, 100hp+ extra under the bonnet, she drinks diesel like a fcking D8 Cat!
That combo is at least 4 mpg worse than stock, in daily driving. And I'd estimate 2mpg worse, towing.

It doesn't help that it keeps inhaling Kias and Hyundays....which hurts aerodynamics and adds weight! LOL

But on the upside, if I've shaved so you cant see white whiskers and have my flat brimmed hat and Oakley's on, hot chicks stare, until they get close enought o see im old enough to be their dad!

[blt2ski]

To have deformed springs in one trip would take way more wieght on you RA than most of us will ever put on our trucks as personal/RV rigs. I've had trailer springs deform I the 50-70k mile range loaded at 80-100% ratings all the time. Truck springs with constant 80+% loads of gravel, soil, etc in landscape construction biz in 100k miles.
I've not seen it except 20+ years down the road in personal use rigs.

Also, remember, your trailer go to the dealer on a trailer, or more likely, pulled behind a 35 series rig with no bars. Don't worry!

Marty

[ApexAZ]

n0arp wrote:


If you just have blocks on the rear, you don't have to worry about permanently deforming your springs under the load in question.

Really appreciate yours and others help! I think I'll just make due with the current hitch I have to get it home where I can install the ProPride.

[n0arp]

ApexAZ wrote:

n0arp wrote:


What kind of lift do you have? That makes a big difference.

It's a CST stage 1 suspension subframe lift. The rear has blocks between axle and leaf springs.

If you just have blocks on the rear, you don't have to worry about permanently deforming your springs under the load in question.

[ApexAZ]

n0arp wrote:


What kind of lift do you have? That makes a big difference.

It's a CST stage 1 suspension subframe lift. The rear has blocks between axle and leaf springs.

[n0arp]

ApexAZ wrote:
But for the sake of getting it home without a WD hitch installed, I expect the rear end to sag. I just hope it doesn't become a permanent sag 🙂

What kind of lift do you have? That makes a big difference.

[ApexAZ]

blt2ski wrote:
SHould have been SWAG. scientific wild assed guess......

I noticed the change in my truck from a 31.5 to 32.5 tires. Also 10 lbs heavier! Latter is probably the biggest part. Then I only have a 4.3 V6. Raised it 2". I'm now about a 3.2 effective vs the 3.42 stock. Even at that, It does good. Lost 1-2 mpg tho.....

If you can not get bars correctly connected to come home/get somewhere etc. I would not worry too much. With 40 years pulling with 8 lug 25/35 series trucks. I found it took 500+ lbs of weight off the front axel to effect how it felt etc. That is around 1500-2000 lbs of HW for a crew cab 170'ish inch WB. 6400 lbs rear springs. With 8500 springs, typical of duallys a decade back, then it was 2000+ lbs of HW to really effect the steering etc. my Reg cab 2500's was more in the 1000-1200 lbs relm. This is stock setups. You being lifted, taller tires. I'm not going to say my experience is equal.


Marty

Gotcha, thanks! I think I should be fine. I'm estimating a max of 22-23k combined weight when loaded, but I will likely also avoid carrying water as much as possible.

But for the sake of getting it home without a WD hitch installed, I expect the rear end to sag. I just hope it doesn't become a permanent sag 🙂

[Grit_dog]

It would take alot more than towing that trailer to put a perma sag in your springs.

[Grit_dog]

ApexAZ wrote:

n0arp wrote:

ApexAZ wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Simple method to figure out you lower rating is old diam tire/new diam tire times rear ratio. (32/35)3.73 = 3.41 effective axel ratio.
If you were stock at 31", then you are down to a 3.3 effective ratio.
I'm assuming you have a DMAX with that high of a GCWR. Being as 3.73 is the only ratio, no way to tell where you really are per say now in comparison. SWG about 88% or 26,300 +/-.
Remember gcwr is a performance/warranty rating only. Question becomes, what performance are you looking at etc. Holding 60 in DOD vs OD vs Direct at 1800 rpm......pulling an X% grade with out stalling in 1st gear.
Marty

Yes it's a duramax with a 10 speed allison. According to their spec sheet it's actually 3.42. I went from a 33" tire to a 35" tire and it dropped my ratio to 3.22. About a 6% loss. I did some regearing research and I'm not sure a 6% difference is worth it?

SWG about 88% or 26,300 - What is SWG?

I think that trailer is light enough that if I were happy with the performance, I wouldn't bother.

This is sort of what I'm thinking, but I guess I'll just have to see how it performs.

One other question I have is, I currently have a B&W tow and stow that is rated for 1450 VTW and 14,500 trailer weight. I have to drive from Gilbert to Tucson to pick up the trailer and wondering if I can get by with this for the hour and a half drive back without permanently hurting my truck suspension? You know those trucks out there that seem to have perma-sag in the rear end...? I want to avoid that if I can.

I don't necessarily want to spend 3 hours at the dealer trying to install the ProPride in their parking lot.

As this appears to be your first time towing a “heavy” (relative term) trailer, all I can say is don’t sweat it. Seriously. Your hitch is fine (maybe a bit light if your fully loaded tongue weight goes up considerably) as long as it’s a 2.5” shank. If it’s a 2” + adapter, I’d still tow it home no problem, but long term, adapter sleeves raise hell with hitch receivers and pins.
Once you hit 70mph for about 5 min on I10 north and realize it tows fine, a lot of this becomes a moot point.
Gearing, brakes, etc, all are a non issue. You have a brand new trailer and the newest most capable 1 tons on the road. Pulling or stopping this trailer is not an issue whatsoever with any newer 1 ton diesel. You’ll probably want to run er in 7th or 8th gear on the flats though. Keep your rpms up. Less stress on the drivetrain internals.

One other thing to consider, I found out the hard way that the short tongue on our toyhauler and the short shank on the stinger I bought , don’t mix. And I’ve scratched the front cap with the trucks taillights in tight turns.

[Grit_dog]

ApexAZ wrote:

n0arp wrote:
Check your wheel ratings. Method makes a nice wheel called the NV305HD that has a 4500lb capacity per wheel, if your current ones aren't sufficient. A lot of aftermarket wheels have poor capacities.

Be aware of your rear axle capacity, and confirm where you are loaded with the trailer, at the scales.

I wouldn't bother upgrading brakes on the truck. Upgrading the trailer to EoH disc, on the other hand, is worth doing.

Thanks.

Wheels are XD Monster III's rated at 3640 and the tires are Toyo AT Open Country rated around the same. My rear axle is rated for 7250 so I think I should be fine? Or should I consider higher capacity wheels?

The trailer tongue weight is 1400 lbs, but obviously this will change once I add the ProPride and add cargo, toys, etc. I assume I should still be under the 2k limit on the truck. I do plan to find some scales once I have the trailer and everything dialed in.

I'll check around on the trailer brake upgrades.

You’ll have no issues with tire/wheel capacity. Not even close to the limits of either.
Nor any of the rest of your truck either.
Having a 3500, it will handle the tongue weight likely 100% without too much squat or any suspension mods needed.
I’m pulling a similar weight/configuration TH with a 6/4” lift coil sprung Dodge on 37s. Aside from needing bags for the squishy springs, the rest of the truck has zero issue towing it. I was a bit skeptical, even though I’ve towed a lot, never towed much with a lifted truck.
I drop it on the hitch ball and hit the road. Sway is 100% a nonissue. Even in Eastern WA winds.
Personally I wouldn’t spend $5 on a wdh for your setup. Especially without trying it first.
Congrats on the new rigs!!

[blt2ski]

SHould have been SWAG. scientific wild assed guess......

I noticed the change in my truck from a 31.5 to 32.5 tires. Also 10 lbs heavier! Latter is probably the biggest part. Then I only have a 4.3 V6. Raised it 2". I'm now about a 3.2 effective vs the 3.42 stock. Even at that, It does good. Lost 1-2 mpg tho.....

If you can not get bars correctly connected to come home/get somewhere etc. I would not worry too much. With 40 years pulling with 8 lug 25/35 series trucks. I found it took 500+ lbs of weight off the front axel to effect how it felt etc. That is around 1500-2000 lbs of HW for a crew cab 170'ish inch WB. 6400 lbs rear springs. With 8500 springs, typical of duallys a decade back, then it was 2000+ lbs of HW to really effect the steering etc. my Reg cab 2500's was more in the 1000-1200 lbs relm. This is stock setups. You being lifted, taller tires. I'm not going to say my experience is equal.


Marty

[ApexAZ]

n0arp wrote:

ApexAZ wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Simple method to figure out you lower rating is old diam tire/new diam tire times rear ratio. (32/35)3.73 = 3.41 effective axel ratio.
If you were stock at 31", then you are down to a 3.3 effective ratio.
I'm assuming you have a DMAX with that high of a GCWR. Being as 3.73 is the only ratio, no way to tell where you really are per say now in comparison. SWG about 88% or 26,300 +/-.
Remember gcwr is a performance/warranty rating only. Question becomes, what performance are you looking at etc. Holding 60 in DOD vs OD vs Direct at 1800 rpm......pulling an X% grade with out stalling in 1st gear.
Marty

Yes it's a duramax with a 10 speed allison. According to their spec sheet it's actually 3.42. I went from a 33" tire to a 35" tire and it dropped my ratio to 3.22. About a 6% loss. I did some regearing research and I'm not sure a 6% difference is worth it?

SWG about 88% or 26,300 - What is SWG?

I think that trailer is light enough that if I were happy with the performance, I wouldn't bother.

This is sort of what I'm thinking, but I guess I'll just have to see how it performs.

One other question I have is, I currently have a B&W tow and stow that is rated for 1450 VTW and 14,500 trailer weight. I have to drive from Gilbert to Tucson to pick up the trailer and wondering if I can get by with this for the hour and a half drive back without permanently hurting my truck suspension? You know those trucks out there that seem to have perma-sag in the rear end...? I want to avoid that if I can.

I don't necessarily want to spend 3 hours at the dealer trying to install the ProPride in their parking lot.

[n0arp]

ApexAZ wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Simple method to figure out you lower rating is old diam tire/new diam tire times rear ratio. (32/35)3.73 = 3.41 effective axel ratio.
If you were stock at 31", then you are down to a 3.3 effective ratio.
I'm assuming you have a DMAX with that high of a GCWR. Being as 3.73 is the only ratio, no way to tell where you really are per say now in comparison. SWG about 88% or 26,300 +/-.
Remember gcwr is a performance/warranty rating only. Question becomes, what performance are you looking at etc. Holding 60 in DOD vs OD vs Direct at 1800 rpm......pulling an X% grade with out stalling in 1st gear.
Marty

Yes it's a duramax with a 10 speed allison. According to their spec sheet it's actually 3.42. I went from a 33" tire to a 35" tire and it dropped my ratio to 3.22. About a 6% loss. I did some regearing research and I'm not sure a 6% difference is worth it?

SWG about 88% or 26,300 - What is SWG?

I think that trailer is light enough that if I were happy with the performance, I wouldn't bother.

[ApexAZ]

blt2ski wrote:
Simple method to figure out you lower rating is old diam tire/new diam tire times rear ratio. (32/35)3.73 = 3.41 effective axel ratio.
If you were stock at 31", then you are down to a 3.3 effective ratio.
I'm assuming you have a DMAX with that high of a GCWR. Being as 3.73 is the only ratio, no way to tell where you really are per say now in comparison. SWG about 88% or 26,300 +/-.
Remember gcwr is a performance/warranty rating only. Question becomes, what performance are you looking at etc. Holding 60 in DOD vs OD vs Direct at 1800 rpm......pulling an X% grade with out stalling in 1st gear.
Marty

Yes it's a duramax with a 10 speed allison. According to their spec sheet it is an overall ratio of 3.42. I went from a 33" tire to a 35" tire and it dropped my ratio to 3.22. About a 6% loss. I did some regearing research and I'm not sure a 6% difference is worth it?

SWG about 88% or 26,300 - What is SWG?