"Residential fridge" and boondocking...

[K3WE]

To us, "boondocking" is 2 to 5 days with no generator or solar and maybe even wimpy old batteries.

I'm thinking the fancy "residential refrigerators" (with dedicated converter) are a bad idea for this type of use pattern.

(Yeah, often times the furnace is involved).

Thoughts? Experiences?

Thanks.

[westend]

I operate a small 120V dorm fridge. It draws 80W and 1:4 duty cycle at 75f ambient with no door openings. I power it with 235W of solar and 300AH of batteries. If the sun shines at least every other day, it is an infinite use device. I should say that I operate without some of the typical 12V draw devices most folks have like alarms, water heater igniter, furnace fan, etc. On the other hand, all my entertainment devices are 120V.

[MrWizard]

out of level damage is slow and cumulative

the coating inside the tubing starts flaking off

and sometime after sufficient damage has occurred it clogs tubing

this manifest as improper cooling, one section like the freezer gets cold, but the box does not

we get reports of lost cooling capacity and fridge replacement often enough on here

sometimes shaking, burping, vibrating the fridge unit, gets temporary return of cooling

[crosscheck]

toedtoes wrote:
I haven't read any reports of absorption fridges going bad due to unlevelness, just the "fear" about it. So I don't see the need to change my setup over it. If I were to switch to a resi fridge, I'd end up having to put the money I saved on the fridge into a bigger battery bank, inverter and generator. Since I don't need all that for anything else, it's a wash - a fridge will cost me a lot either way.

Google "rv fridge damage from being unlevel". A few interesting reads. I didn't ask anyone to change over to a Danfoss fridge from an absorbtion fridge, just pointing out some of the advantages after owning one for 6 years. They both work in an RV.

Dave

[toedtoes]

crosscheck wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
Yeah, I've never understood the "has to be level" argument against the absortion fridge - if the RV is out of level that it will affect the fridge, then it is out of level enough to be uncomfortable sleeping, sitting, etc. It takes me about 1 minute to level my clipper enough for the fridge and my comfort. Not realy seeing this as a deal breaker.

In my statement #4 previously,"Can operate out of level without serious damage", is just a simple statement. Like saying watch A is waterproof to 5', watch B to 30'.

Having said that, the amount of posts regarding damage from out of level operation to an absorbtion fridge owing to the fact that there are so many units out there and they are in mobile RV's and not stationary homes, is something to pay attention to.

The TC crowd is a little more adverturesome than the average RV'er and speaking from experience, there are lots of times when we camped well out of the safety range of the RV fridge due to rough or steep sloped ground when out in the boonies no matter how much leveling you try to do.

Dave

I wasn't directing my comment at you in particular, but in general because it always get brought up like it's a huge deal.

I haven't read any reports of absorption fridges going bad due to unlevelness, just the "fear" about it. So I don't see the need to change my setup over it. If I were to switch to a resi fridge, I'd end up having to put the money I saved on the fridge into a bigger battery bank, inverter and generator. Since I don't need all that for anything else, it's a wash - a fridge will cost me a lot either way.

I don't go crazy, but I've stayed at places with a good sized slope, I just do my best to make it comfortable and don't worry.

[crosscheck]

toedtoes wrote:
Yeah, I've never understood the "has to be level" argument against the absortion fridge - if the RV is out of level that it will affect the fridge, then it is out of level enough to be uncomfortable sleeping, sitting, etc. It takes me about 1 minute to level my clipper enough for the fridge and my comfort. Not realy seeing this as a deal breaker.

In my statement #4 previously,"Can operate out of level without serious damage", is just a simple statement. Like saying watch A is waterproof to 5', watch B to 30'.

Having said that, the amount of posts regarding damage from out of level operation to an absorbtion fridge owing to the fact that there are so many units out there and they are in mobile RV's and not stationary homes, is something to pay attention to.

The TC crowd is a little more adverturesome than the average RV'er and speaking from experience, there are lots of times when we camped well out of the safety range of the RV fridge due to rough or steep sloped ground when out in the boonies no matter how much leveling you try to do.

Dave

[MrWizard]

12v absorption is not very popular and not many are 3-way fridges anymore

12v was always a maintenance cooling while traveling mode, and never a primary cooling mode, the 12v heating element was less wattage than the 110v heating element

the average residential fridge uses less wattage than the 110v heating element in an RV fridge, which is typicaly 300+ watts depending on the fridge model, the small ones are 200+

the Danfoss compressor fridge on 12v or 110v uses even less energy than the typical residential compressor fridge and is better insulated so it runs less,
aka lower cycle time,

[crosscheck]

pnichols wrote:

crosscheck wrote:
We have 6 years experience with Danfoss compressor 7.5cuft NovaKool fridge/freezer.

1) Uses 1/3 the energy of the absorbtion fridge.

2) Cools quickly and has a more even cooling climate in hot weather.

3) 1/3rd more volume for the same outside dimensions.

4) Can operate out of level without serious damage.

5) Similar price to the absorbtion fridge.

**** Important issue: Must upgrade electrical storage and AH input system for long term benefits.

Judging by the type of boondock camping the OP are planning to do and the resources they plan to have with them, even the simplest electric draws let alone a "fancy" residential fridge, are going to be a problem for up to 5 days. I really don't understand the question regarding a residential fridge as it is so far from their intended camping experience.

Dave.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 1) ... with regards to an absorption RV refrigerator versus a Danfoss compressor refrigerator.

Did you mean to compare electrcial power usage of a Danfoss compressor RV refrigerator to electrical power usage of a standard compressor RV refrigerator? If those are what you meant to compare, I can maybe see 1/3 the electrical energy using the Danfoss compressor technology.

Of course an RV absorption refrigerator running on batteries just sips propane and uses only a few hundred milliamps of 12 volt electrical power for it's circuit board ... which is way less electrical energy than any compressor refrigerator ... regardless of the compressor technology being used in it.

As far as out of level regarding absorption RV refrigerators is concerned, the absorption refrigerator manufacturers could probably fix this by mounting the sensitive internal components on an internal gimbal mechanism or ... RV manufacturers could mount the whole absorption refrigerator on a gimbal mechanism inside a slightly enlarged RV refrigerator cabinet. As an aside, we always level our RV when camped anyway, for other reasons - in addition to it's absorption refrigerator requirement.

An absorption RV refrigerator with it's out-of-level requirement gotten around using gimbals, and when properly installed ventilation-wise, should be the ultimate RV refrigeration setup for long-term drycamping with or without the sun and huge battery banks. Our absorption refrigerator so far after 12 years, has been flawless in all outside temperatures - but it is only modest size at under 7 cubic feet. Maybe small size helps to deliver great absorption refrigerator performance.

1) Uses 1/3 less energy than an absorbtion fridge. My mistake in the original statement.. Same size fridges, same conditions, the Danfoss 12V uses 1/3 less energy as the absorbtion fridge on 12V and I have to assume that whether it is with electricity or propane, the same amount of heat(energy) is required to operate the absorbtion fridge.

A while back when I was researching Danfoss verses absorbtion, I read a study of absorbtion bar fridges run on 220V only in Danish hotels. The reason they had these type of fridges was because they are dead quiet so not to bother their guests at night. Because electricity is so expensive in Denmark, they were eventually replaced by high efficient compressor fridges because they use much less electricity(energy), but they are not dead quiet.

Dave

[toedtoes]

Yeah, I've never understood the "has to be level" argument against the absortion fridge - if the RV is out of level that it will affect the fridge, then it is out of level enough to be uncomfortable sleeping, sitting, etc. It takes me about 1 minute to level my clipper enough for the fridge and my comfort. Not realy seeing this as a deal breaker.

[pnichols]

crosscheck wrote:
We have 6 years experience with Danfoss compressor 7.5cuft NovaKool fridge/freezer.

1) Uses 1/3 the energy of the absorbtion fridge.

2) Cools quickly and has a more even cooling climate in hot weather.

3) 1/3rd more volume for the same outside dimensions.

4) Can operate out of level without serious damage.

5) Similar price to the absorbtion fridge.

**** Important issue: Must upgrade electrical storage and AH input system for long term benefits.

Judging by the type of boondock camping the OP are planning to do and the resources they plan to have with them, even the simplest electric draws let alone a "fancy" residential fridge, are going to be a problem for up to 5 days. I really don't understand the question regarding a residential fridge as it is so far from their intended camping experience.

Dave.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 1) ... with regards to an absorption RV refrigerator versus a Danfoss compressor refrigerator.

Did you mean to compare electrcial power usage of a Danfoss compressor RV refrigerator to electrical power usage of a standard compressor RV refrigerator? If those are what you meant to compare, I can maybe see 1/3 the electrical energy using the Danfoss compressor technology.

Of course an RV absorption refrigerator running on batteries just sips propane and uses only a few hundred milliamps of 12 volt electrical power for it's circuit board ... which is way less electrical energy than any compressor refrigerator ... regardless of the compressor technology being used in it.

As far as out of level regarding absorption RV refrigerators is concerned, the absorption refrigerator manufacturers could probably fix this by mounting the sensitive internal components on an internal gimbal mechanism or ... RV manufacturers could mount the whole absorption refrigerator on a gimbal mechanism inside a slightly enlarged RV refrigerator cabinet. As an aside, we always level our RV when camped anyway, for other reasons - in addition to it's absorption refrigerator requirement.

An absorption RV refrigerator with it's out-of-level requirement gotten around using gimbals, and when properly installed ventilation-wise, should be the ultimate RV refrigeration setup for long-term drycamping with or without the sun and huge battery banks. Our absorption refrigerator so far after 12 years, has been flawless in all outside temperatures - but it is only modest size at under 7 cubic feet. Maybe small size helps to deliver great absorption refrigerator performance.

[MrWizard]

To me the op post is an out of the blue statement with no context

Does he boondock all the time, is he shopping for a new RV

New RV with residential fridge, come with batteries an inverter and usually a generator

If he does not want to listen to a generator do not buy a new RV with residential fridge

[mudhound]

I would opt for the propane model

[toedtoes]

Gdetrailer wrote:

toedtoes wrote:
I have a single group 31 optima AGM battery and a 42+ year old 3-way dometic fridge. I can go 9 days with the fridge and water heater on propane and the water pump "on" the entire time and still have a full charge on the battery. No solar, no generator, no hookups.

I don't use the furnace - the fan will eat up your battery power. I have good bedding that keeps me warm at night and a little buddy to take the chill off when needed.

I like the simplicity of my setup. It works well for dry camping and I don't have to deal with the expense of the generator, generator fuel, and/or solar setup.

For the price of a honda generator, you've paid for a propane fridge.

I don't "do" a "Honda" generator..

I won't pay that much for a gen that is way over priced.

Instead, I do have a 4Kw Chinese clone gen which takes care of high wattage items like microwave or A/C when traveling, cost me a rich $200 nearly 15 yrs ago.. And no, I have zero plans to use it in any organized campground..

I do "overnight" by Wallydocking or at rest stops while traveling to my destinations so yes, I do depend on my battery and inverter to run my fridge/heat/lights..

My destinations do have shore power but I am not afraid to use my setup longer if needed without shore power.. But why oh why does anyone wish to pretend to "rough it" in a hard sided RV with propane fridge, propane heat, battery, running water, cell phones, internet, PCs, TVs, DVDs, Tablets and call it "camping"..

If you truly wish to "camp", sell the RV, buy a tent and go camping the real way with a ice chest, sleeping bag and perhaps a couple of matches..

Otherwise you are nothing more than "glamping" and no better than folks like me that do have a residential fridge in my TT.

What does roughing it have to do with anything I wrote? Seems you're putting a whole lotta judgment out there for nothing.

[crosscheck]

SidecarFlip wrote:
I wouldn't have a residential fridge in my RV. Never. You want efficient use of power and something that will stay cold, get a Danfoss or WAECO compressor fridge. Draws little power, no gas. West Marine sells them. Boat people been using them for years. European RV's come standard with them. My next one will be one...

We have 6 years experience with Danfoss compressor 7.5cuft NovaKool fridge/freezer.

1) Uses 1/3 the energy of the absorbtion fridge.

2) Cools quickly and has a more even cooling climate in hot weather.

3) 1/3rd more volume for the same outside dimensions.

4) Can operate out of level without serious damage.

5) Similar price to the absorbtion fridge.

**** Important issue: Must upgrade electrical storage and AH input system for long term benefits.

Judging by the type of boondock camping the OP are planning to do and the resources they plan to have with them, even the simplest electric draws let alone a "fancy" residential fridge, are going to be a problem for up to 5 days. I really don't understand the question regarding a residential fridge as it is so far from their intended camping experience.

Dave.

[SidecarFlip]

I wouldn't have a residential fridge in my RV. Never. You want efficient use of power and something that will stay cold, get a Danfoss or WAECO compressor fridge. Draws little power, no gas. West Marine sells them. Boat people been using them for years. European RV's come standard with them. My next one will be one...