RV Parks and Large Dogs

[rvnubee]

We have 2 dogs, 1 small (6 Lbs) and 1 large (140 Lbs). I am planning to purchase a class A motorhome and live in an RV park. One of the RV parks in my area requires dogs to be under 20 Lbs. The large dog is very tame, quiet and old. Why are limits placed on sizes of dogs? Some smaller dogs are more noisy and more energetic than the larger, older ones.

[dturm]

I then this has gone about as far as possible.

Time to close.

[Good_Ol_Boy]

Go Dogs wrote:

Deb and Ed M wrote:

Go Dogs wrote:

This dog does not belong in a campground,(small dog central). The owner needs as much training as the dog. The owner failed this dog.

That might be a bit harsh - it sounds to me like the owner just discovered this problem; and clearly wants to resolve it. And it sounds like if a person is walking a well-trained, well-mannered dog past this Rottie - he barely pays attention. But we've ALL seen the little ankle-biters who think they're CUJO and the owners who think it's "cute". They're EVERYWHERE - so the Rottie will have to learn to tolerate them.

What if a child is in between this dog and it's 'target'. Even if the owner screams, beats, and shocks this dog and prevents it from attacking another dog, it doesn't paint a pretty picture. This is NOT the right owner for this dog. Us large dog owner's have enough trouble being welcomed into CGs.

So if a dog does not tolerate other dogs, or yapping little dogs than the owner has failed the dog? What about dogs that are genetically predisposed to Dog Agression (DA)? You can not train, love, smother, shock, or beat DA out of a dog, it's in their genetics. At that point it is useless to even try to train it out, the key is managing it. Proper containment and constantly keeping watch to make sure the dog doesn't cross it's threshold.

I own a selectively DA dog, mostly towards ankle biters, I camp with him no problem. I never tether him out, he is always leashed with me or crated while we are out. When on walks I deter his focus away from whatever I know will set him off. It's all about knowing your dog and removing them from potentially hazardous situations.

[Lantley]

Lighten up guys. The guy came here seeking advice. He is addressing the issue. Give him a break. He added a 2nd chain as a precaution. He said he would seek out a trainer.
Everyone needs to relax and quit flexing their internet muscles. It's amazing how brave and courageous some of us become when hiding behind a keyboard.:o

"Heck if that Rottie got loose and came after me I'd rip him apart with my bare hands and feed him to my Yorkie. Then I'd put a 6' o leash on the the owner and take him for a walk out back".........."Go ahead make my walk":W
Signed, Clint Keyboard internet enforcer! :B

[Go_Dogs]

Deb and Ed M wrote:

Go Dogs wrote:

This dog does not belong in a campground,(small dog central). The owner needs as much training as the dog. The owner failed this dog.

That might be a bit harsh - it sounds to me like the owner just discovered this problem; and clearly wants to resolve it. And it sounds like if a person is walking a well-trained, well-mannered dog past this Rottie - he barely pays attention. But we've ALL seen the little ankle-biters who think they're CUJO and the owners who think it's "cute". They're EVERYWHERE - so the Rottie will have to learn to tolerate them.

What if a child is in between this dog and it's 'target'. Even if the owner screams, beats, and shocks this dog and prevents it from attacking another dog, it doesn't paint a pretty picture. This is NOT the right owner for this dog. Us large dog owner's have enough trouble being welcomed into CGs.

[rvnubee]

I guess I forgot to mention at the opening remark that our 140 Lb. dog is a 10yr Great Pyrenees and small one is a 3yr 6 Lb Maltese. It is interesting to watch when another dog of any kind or size barks at either one, the Pyre just raises his head and looks as if he wants to say "Really? are you sure you want to take me on". The Maltese is the yapper which we call the alert dog and the Pyre the enforcer. He can bark loud when he wants but is usually very tame and quiet - his bark is worse that his bite.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

Go Dogs wrote:

This dog does not belong in a campground,(small dog central). The owner needs as much training as the dog. The owner failed this dog.

That might be a bit harsh - it sounds to me like the owner just discovered this problem; and clearly wants to resolve it. And it sounds like if a person is walking a well-trained, well-mannered dog past this Rottie - he barely pays attention. But we've ALL seen the little ankle-biters who think they're CUJO and the owners who think it's "cute". They're EVERYWHERE - so the Rottie will have to learn to tolerate them.

[Go_Dogs]

Yet another bit of 'advice'. You know how when you read up on certain breeds, they mention: 'may be aggressive, not for beginners, etc'?
This 'Red Zone' Rottie is an example of that. If you bring such a pup home, do not establish boundaries, weak obedience training, improper socialization, etc.,and allow him to reach maturity under these conditions-big problem. This dog is responding to his prey instinct when he encounters a barking small dog. He is not responding to his owner, because the owner has not addressed this when he had a chance, (socialization).
This dog does not belong in a campground,(small dog central). The owner needs as much training as the dog. The owner failed this dog. If the owner does not assume the Alpha position, the dog instinctively fills the position. A large dominant male Rottweiler has no trouble stepping up to the Alpha position, unless a dominant owner takes over. Lots of beautiful Rotties in the shelter for the same reason.

[rvnubee]

Wow, what an education! When I posted this, I had no idea how passionate people are about their dogs. I appreciate all the responses. Some have been very entertaining and others quite educational. I will take all this into consideration when I enter the RV world.

[Code2High]

Suggestions:

First, stop blaming other people/dogs for your dog's bad behavior. Your dog is YOUR responsibility and if he's behaving badly, that's not because of another dog, it's because you haven't done the work you need to do. When you indulge in complaining about "yappy" dogs and so on, you put energy out that is A) hostile to those other dogs and increases your dog's aggression toward them and B) is weak and therefore causes your dog to continue to feel that he can or must ignore what you say. If you want to change this behavior, make this change... Hereafter, all former "yappy little dogs" will be referred to as "training assistants" and their approach will be referred to as "training opportunities."

Secondly, you need to get your terms straight. A dog rushing to the end of its tether to attack a dog passing by is NOT in "guard dog" mode. He's not in "protection mode." He is in possessive, aggressive, out of control mode. There's a difference. One of the most common things that one hears from people with dogs that have aggression issues is the improper use of the term "protective." A dog that attacks someone attacking you or breaking into your home is "protective." A dog that ignores you and tries to attack something that is not a threat is just possessive, and aggressive.

Thirdly, regardless of whether or not you think other dogs are around, never, ever, EVER tie this dog out again unless A) have done the homework and consulted with a trainer and/or behaviorist, B) you have a solid plan for what you're going to do when barking dogs approach, that does NOT rely on a cable or a collar not breaking and C) you are doing nothing else, not ONE THING ELSE besides controlling the situation with your dog and working on his behavior.

Each time you tie this dog out, you put yourself, your dog, passersby, the campground personnel/owner/nice manager who loves your dog, and every other person who travels with a dog at risk. It is beyond irresponsible. Cables, collars, and things you attach them to break. Period, paragraph. Stop and think for a minute how you'd actually feel facing the owners, their children, law enforcement, a judge, the owner of the park, or any other civilized human being after your dog that you knew was "absolutely in the red zone" on a in an RV park under these circumstances, actually killed someone's little dog in front of their eyes. If you're not sure if that matters, try this. Sit down and write a letter of apology to the person who watched your dog kill their dog. Try to "explain" what happened. Write another letter to all the people whose dogs will not be allowed to visit this park because of what your dog did. Then decide if there's a time when you're that sure that no one is going to need to walk their dog past your site. It's an rv park, not a prison. No one is locked in their rig, nor should they need to be. People walk their dogs at various times and for various reasons. Dogs get out. Yours has an aggression issue. Do not create an opportunity for him to cause another dog harm.

Until you resolve his behavior problem, you keep him on a leash and attached to you while he is out of the rig. That's all.

Next... as others have said, a dog this size that is in the red zone is not a DIY project. If a shock collar won't deter him, a tazer won't either. Trying to physically restrain or correct him yourself is likely to result in aggression being redirected to you. This will leave you with an injury and him with a bite history to follow him all his days.

There are, however, things you can do away from and at the RV park that should help you address the problem. Obedience training is important and once trained you should regularly practice with the dog to remind him of who gives the orders. Nothing In Life Is Free is a non-confrontational way to reinforce your position as the pack leader in his life. Google NILIF. Don't expect to enjoy it but it does work.

You can also teach him a "long down." The way I teach that is this: Take the dog out for a long walk. Bring him back and feed him. Pick a spot in the house where he is comfortable and safe but would not normally rest. Pick a spot that you can ID exactly when he moves away. Put him on a down and tell him stay, and walk away. When he gets up, go and take him by the collar and lead him back then spin him into a down and say "stay" as you walk away. No conversation, no second "down," no other interaction. Put him exactly back where he was.

Keep doing this until he stops getting up and eventually goes to sleep. This is where that walk you gave him will work for you. It's likely to take a couple of hours the first time. It's worth it.

When he falls asleep go to him and release him.

Repeat the next day or the day after. Pick a different spot so he learns that stay is wherever he's told to stay. It will be easier the next time. After he's fallen asleep a couple of times, pat yourself on the back... You have completed the hardest part of the "off switch installation" for your dog. Keep repeating this process in various places and at various times. Always wait until he is calm to release him, but he doesn't always need to be asleep. Once he gets solid on this, it is a very useful command and it also allows you to work pack structure into your day. You can have him on a downstay nearby in the evening and be reinforcing your leadership while enjoying his company. I use this for my hose obsessed pitbull when I want to water the yard.

Also, when you take him to the rv park and have him outside on leash attached to you, you should be working on obedience with him for several minutes a few times a day. Take him to various parts of the site and other areas of the park. He needs to know that you are in charge at the rv park, wherever he is.

If you don't have the skills for obedience work, you need to get with a trainer and get some. This is a large, powerful dog and and you need to know what you're doing in training him.

All of those things are separate from actually addressing his behavior problem when tied out. They will help him respect you more, and make it easier to address that problem with him. But given the intensity of his behavior in the past, you need guidance and help to resolve it safely. For that, you should have him assessed by a trainer or behaviorist and decide on a apecific plan of action based on their observations of him, his disposition over all, and your abilities.

Your best bet may be to meet with the trainer at the park. You can easily recreate this situation if needed by asking some of the owners of the "training assistants" to walk by while you're at the rv park. By knowing when they're coming, you will be more successful in executing your plan, whatever it is. Just be sure that you are prepared to keep them safe.

If you don't have the resources to get a trainer or behaviorist involved or can't find someone you are able to work with, it's simple.... he is out on leash attached to you, only, when at the rv park or at home or anywhere else.

[Goostoff]

Deb and Ed M wrote:

Also - forget the cattle prod - that will get you into hot water with the ASPCA. And using your electric collar during your dog's rage will only convince him that the adversary has bitten him and he's correct in thinking it needs to be killed. Yelling at him only convinces him that you're under attack, also. A good trainer will help you stop all that before it even starts!

This is the most logical thought I have ever read heard or seen on this subject. Thank you ever so much for taking the time to type it. I gave a dog trainer a really good deal on a truck a few weeks ago. Maybe she cay cut me a deal on some training tips.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

Goostoff wrote:
This is a new behavior that only happens when he is tied up at the campground. It is not something that can be corrected at home. We live in the country, and the closest neighbor is a 1/2 mile away.

Here's part of your problem: your dog is used to wide open, annoying-dog-free spaces - NOT the close quarters of a campground. Being a "protective" breed doesn't help either - although ALL dogs tend to protect their things and people.

I would recommend you find a good obedience trainer - either a kennel club or private individual, rather than your local Pet Smart. Someone who can help set up situations that set your dog off - so you can stop the problem before it escalates.

Also - forget the cattle prod - that will get you into hot water with the ASPCA. And using your electric collar during your dog's rage will only convince him that the adversary has bitten him and he's correct in thinking it needs to be killed. Yelling at him only convinces him that you're under attack, also. A good trainer will help you stop all that before it even starts!

Yes - it will cost you some money; but think of it this way: if your dog gets a hold of another dog and injures it, you will be paying big bucks for that dog's care and possibly having to euthanize your dog. If there was a kid holding that other dog at the time - there are lots of hungry lawyers SEEKING "dog bite victims". In light of the other possibilities - a good trainer is dirt cheap.

[Go_Dogs]

"The problem is that the other dogs can see him under the camper and start barking before I even know they are coming. When this happens it is instant red zone, and his focus is so strong that nothing, I mean absolutely nothing can get his attention"

What is more important? This dog being a danger in a public campground, or you being with your best bud?
If you are considering using a device, equivalant to a Tazer to control this behavior, slow down. This is a problem for a professional. Someone could get hurt very badly from this dog. "Red Zone" behaviors can advance from yippy dogs to other creatures. This is also giving Rotties and large dogs a negative image.
BTW: If this dog attacked a small dog, I would not blame the owner for defending it.

[remoandiris]

Goostoff wrote:
I am in no way going to defend his actions. I plan to find a way to put an end to this behavior. I just hope the other campers will bare with me while I break him.

You're between a rock and a hard place. You have a big dog that reacts badly to snippy noisemakers. I sympathize.

A few months ago I was walking my dogs thru a CG when a massive rottie broke it's tie-out cable and charged my dogs. My 2 weren't barking or anything, just walking past. I dropped the leads and prepared for battle. My 2 are good sized, but they were dwarfed by the rottie. He turned out to be a huge baby who simply wanted to play. The owner, who was also outside at the time, apologized. The next day the rottie had a thicker cable.

Did I care that the rottie made my heart skip a few beats? Not really. I get more irritated by little dogs yapping.

[Lantley]

Goostoff wrote:
This is a new behavior that only happens when he is tied up at the campground. It is not something that can be corrected at home. We live in the country, and the closest neighbor is a 1/2 mile away. He is fine in the camper, he is fine on a leash. He is even fine when he is tied out. It is only when another dog starts barking at him that we have a problem.

If you plan to camp with this dog you will have to make an effort to correct this behavior preferably at the campground with some assistance or through simulation at home.
Claiming it can't be corrected is not the solution.If you are unable to get him to calm down then do not tie him up outside of your RV. Take him for walks and then back inside.
My thought on dogs is the owner must be able to control the dogs behavior at all times preferably through voice commands. The owner is always in charge not the dog.
If you cannot control his behavior at all times, bad things can happen.