3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[mwf414]

I have the elm3000...can anyone tell me what the round 220v outlet is used for??? I am planning on plugging my rv into this generator and running my a/c, etc...
thanks...

[mkmathis]

I have the Powerwise 3500 from Kragen. I plug my TT into one of my two 110 plugs using a 220 to 110 plug convertor and I go to town. It runs my AC, microwave, and refrigerator with no problem at all. If I had more it would probably run that too! I am very pleased to say the least! TO buy a $300 gen that is quiet and powerful isnt almost unheard of!

[youth4him]

In these 800 pages of thread is there a post (assuming by professor) that says specifically how to rewire the genset?

I'm going to be adding the 20A recepticals to mine, but while I have it open, might as well fix it up completely.

[Curly2001]

So what you guys are really saying is that you "should" be able to run you TT a/c from just one plug on the Power Pro generator but if you want more amps for a larger load, figure out how to wire them together?????
Electrically inept,
Curly

[mustangman]

guy48065 wrote:
I updated my webpage with some noise measurements of the Power Pro.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mburnette/generator/pp3500.htm
To make a long story short, the Wen Power Pro noise output is typical of many other look-alike Chinese 3000W gensets at a measured 67dba at 21 feet outside on grass.

Thanks Mark and everyone for the info,I bought a PowerPro 3500 yesterday from pepboys 299 plus tax,havn't got around to firing it up ,it doesn't specify what oil it uses,should i put synthetic 10w30,it has only one 110 outlet and one 220,can i convert the 220 recepter so i can plug in a 110 device,is there an adapter for this?,

[guy48065]

I updated my webpage with some noise measurements of the Power Pro.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mburnette/generator/pp3500.htm
To make a long story short, the Wen Power Pro noise output is typical of many other look-alike Chinese 3000W gensets at a measured 67dba at 21 feet outside on grass.

[n7bsn]

FrizzleFried wrote:
... Can I get a 30a to 25a converter??

There is a post (either in this thread or http://www.rv.net/forum/Index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/15412106/gotomsg/15413586.cfm#15413586 ) about a dual 15 to 30 amp. But for what you want, I think you will have to make it yourself.

[FrizzleFried]

I oiled & gassed my PowerWise 3500 up today and took it over to the MH. Using a small 30a to 15a converter I plugged it in to the 25a outlet on the generator. The generator, once fuel reached the carb, started up with little effort. I was pleasantly surprised at the noise level. It is true that the engine noise is actually louder than the exhaust noise. The exhaust sounds more of a low hum while the engine sounds like...well...an engine. After hooking up, I went in to the MH and turned on a couple lights. I then turned on the air conditioning, first the fan went on, then the condensing unit went on...the generator handled them rather effortlessly. I did hear a minor audible change in engine sound, but thats it. Next I put a cup of water in the microwave. While the air conditioning unit was operating, ran the microwave and it worked fine. When I did this, there was a definate audible groan from the generator, but it kept going, no problem! I did notice the adapted did get pretty warm. I am going to go buy a quality converter. Can I get a 30a to 25a converter??

[Catalina35]

Bought a Power Wise 3500 today. Local Checker Store is closing them out at $249.00. When I got it home I could not find the owners manual. I went back and they gave me one out of another generator. I later found the manual and papers that came with mine. The manual and papers from the other generator noted that the generator had a brushless generator and indicated that it had a motor with a designation of 200J.I did not physically see the generator. The papers with my generator says it has a brush generator and has a motor designated as a JF200. I do not know the difference between the motors if any and why JD would have brush and brushless generators. Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

[guy48065]

How many amps do your AC units pull? (I have a lowly pop-up and no AC).
Today I repeated the test without the power strip so its breaker wouldn't interfere with the results. I loaded the generator's 110V outlet to 20Amps and ran it at that load for several minutes. A tech at Wen told me the generator's breaker is 25A so this looks to be true. The voltage at 20A is 101V and 60.4Hz. This is about all one can expect from a single 110V outlet. If you need more current I think MrWizards rewiring suggestion makes sense. While the gen was pumping out that 20A/101V I checked the 220 outlet. One phase was obviously 101V but the other, unloaded one was sitting there at 120V. So it looks like these gensets will handle an unbalanced load. The little voltmeter on the genset was reading approx. 220 at that time, so it looks to be reading correctly also.

My test was as follows:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mburnette/generator/pp3500.htm
I started the gen with no load and the voltage was 123V and 62Hz.
At 12Amps the voltage was 114.1V.
At 19Amps it was 104V and 60.7Hz
At 20Amps we're down to 101V amd 60.4Hz
The most load I applied was 21A and the volts were down to 98V so I didn't see any point in continuing.

I'll have to wait for a nicer day to test the noise level. It's windy & snowing in Michigan so I don't plan to stand out in the yard to do this test!

[guy48065]

This might not be necessary. In yesterdays post I had 2 1500W heaters on the 110V outlet and it was putting out 101V at 20A (so much for heater ratings...). My power strip breaker popped but the generator breaker didn't (took about 2 minutes at this load to trip the strip's breaker. I need to repeat this without the strip & see if the breaker holds. I'm surprised just one leg of the generator can put out so much power. Maybe the automatic voltage regulator is supposed to insure full power to whichever winding is demanding it. It's conceivable that you could plug in a 2000W load to the 110 outlet and 1000W on the 220. This would result in a 2500W load to one phase and only 500W on the other. I would think it's designed to handle that kind of unbalanced load.
Who wants to try this? I don't have anything that flexible to use as a load.
(and where's the Prof. been? Vacation?)

[MrWizard]

CARNUT wrote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now that Power Pro schematic is posted, can anyone tell if all the amps can be pulled off the single 110 socket?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

technicaly yes.

getting into the wiring connections and disconnect the white wire from the red wire

hook the br wire & red wire togethere for one leg

and hook the white wire and blu wire togethere for the other leg

this gives you 110 volts across the circuit at full amperage

you would have to disconnect the 220 outlet and install a 20 amp or 30 amp 110 outlet

NOTE: this would be 110 across this circuit ..there is NO bonded/grounded neutral

the plug will read aprox 55 volts to ground/frame from either side of the plug/ either leg

a voltage & phasing check/scope it.. would be advisable before and after doing this

with automatic electronic voltage regulation, this should be a quality generator head

[Scruffy5]

How much are these decibel meters at radio shack and are they something they have to special order?I bought a Champion and now out of curiousity{spell} I'd like to see how much noise this thing is supose to make. My neighbor was impressed and owns the RED one.

[jamay97]

I bought the Champion and my wife said that at 100' she could barely hear it run. I thought it seemed to be relatively quite. Just my observations. I like the unit very well and is very easy to start. Just remember to by the adapter to run the 30 amp rv plug on the 240v circuit.

[skram]

When I fired up my Champion, it seemed quieter than expected (manual states 76db). I was able to talk easily to my wife standing next to it. Without a meter, though, I cannot know for sure....