3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[toprudder]

98clru wrote:
Looking at the RV adaptors, none seem to fit my needs. I would rather not rewire the genset, if no one can recommend a splitter/adaptor that is ready made, any suggestions on how to wire up the NEMA L14-30 plug to 20 feet of normal house wiring and junction box with a few outlet/gfci duplexes so I can put a normal 3 prong "outlet" together safely and still have maximum capacity?

That connector has two hots, a neutral, and ground. You could easily wire an adapter that would give you two 110v receptacles.

You would use a standard duplex wall outlet. VERY IMPORTANT: Break the tab off that connects the two hots (copper screws). Wire each of the hots from the L14-30 to the now seperate hots on the duplex receptacle. Wire the neutral of each together (silver screws), same with the ground. This will give you two 110v outlets, each connected to seperate windings in the generator. You can then run two standard extension cords, one from each outlet.

I suggest you make your adapter long enough to run from the genset to the house, using at least 12 guage wire. This would be better than running two extension cords, since the single neutral and shared loads will end up with less voltage drop.

[98clru]

Great postings. Thanks to all contributors!

Unfortunately no one has covered my interest:
I live in central Florida and after 3 hurricanes last year decided it was time to get a "heavy duty hurricane avoidance charm". A 100 pound heavy duty charm at that! The Power Pro 3500 seemed to fit perfectly with my needs. After much searching, my local Pep boys came thru on their raincheck just in time to avoid paying sales tax on FL's hurricane prep sales tax-free period.

I looked at what would be needed to be comfortable with just the basics should we get hit again this year or any other in the next 20yrs (not using the genset on a regular basis I figured it should last that long running 1 or 2 times a year to keep seals from drying, etc with a little TLC.

Now my question for those who overwhelm me with their knowledge: I am looking to run several moderate loads should the need arise, a small room a/c unit (mostly for dehumidification) @ 530watts, Refridge/freezer several hours on/off alternating with my chest freezer a TV and satellite system and a fan or 2. The 3500 surge should be plenty. Unfortunately all my applications are 110v and I was planning on just running a couple of normal 15a rated extensions through the window to the appliance or UPS for electronics (don't trust the genset to keep power clean enough, and if the power is out, my internet would be out too, so the computers won't need them). With only one 110 outlet on the 3500, I would probably overload the breaker on the outlet using 1 extension cord if not the cord itself.

I am hoping to find an adaptor/splitter that I can plug into the only other outlet on this unit (240v) to power normal household plugs not an entire MH or TT.

Looking at the RV adaptors, none seem to fit my needs. I would rather not rewire the genset, if no one can recommend a splitter/adaptor that is ready made, any suggestions on how to wire up the NEMA L14-30 plug to 20 feet of normal house wiring and junction box with a few outlet/gfci duplexes so I can put a normal 3 prong "outlet" together safely and still have maximum capacity?

Wiring plugs,outlets and switches in the normal way is no problem for me, basic electrical theory I understand (AC vs DC, phases, etc), but if this was already covered in earlier postings, or should have been an easy follow up to something already posted, sorry I missed it.

As the Professor and Mr. Wizard made clear, not getting it right might be the last thing you do!

Thanks for all your help!

[Winchesternsc]

Just bought an elm3000 from their ebay store. With shipping it will cost a little more than getting it at a PEP boys. I called all the local PEPs out to 100 miles and all they had was colemans.
Anyway, I found this topic this morning (6-13) after the wife complained about boondocking in muggy hot weather. We just got back from the Fl keys and booned 2 nights going down and 1 back and all 3 were humid.
I thought the second one outside of miami was the worst, it was after 11 pm and we were still sweating in the camper.
The camper is an 04 Four Winds 31'. We had refer and lights but no genset = no AC.
We will be going to Myrtle Beach in 5 weeks and will boondock the night before arrival about 1.5 hours from the beach.
Also next year Im pushing for an "out west trip", I havent decided the destinations yet but Rushmore, the grand C, and several other places make the list, enough to probably need two trips over 2 years. So I can see LOTS of boondocking in the future.
So the wife has been wanting a genset to keep with the camper, I have a 5K for the house but its loud over 75 yards away so its out.
Anyway, will post my own review of the elm once I get it and hook it up.
Thanks to all the posters that have gone before me on this topic.
Lamar

[MrWizard]

OK, after writing the above I decided to try her out. Running a power strip out of 1 plug, I ran an Iron rated at 1100W and a circular saw rated at 1500W. The RPM's increased but handled the 2600 watts with no problem. I wanted to trip it out so I plugged a space heater in rated at 1500W and turned it on. It handled all 4100W (rated anyway) with no problem. I had them all running for a few minutes and it never tripped. Based on this, I assume all available power is available from one of the outlets. I'm happy, now I need to build a box to make it whisper.

Just turned on a lamp in the house and a bulb blew. Scared me to death after all this electrical talk!


the iron will draw full power, and so should the heater

the saw being a motor will only draw the power it needs, only a few amps when it's not cutting,, full load only when your cutting thru that 3*12 floor joist

[Clark_W__Griswo]

Thanks Prof. I think that is about as clear as it can get.

[cufor98]

professor95 wrote:
Please listen to Mr. Wizard!

Please listen to me!

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES plug one of these adapters into any outlet or generator that you do not know is properly wired for its use.

Plugging it into a "split" circuit can cause expensive damage to your RV or equipment and even endanger you and your family.

Properly wired means that on a DUPLEX outlet (standard type of outlets found in all American homes) if you connect an AC voltmeter so that the two leads (makes no difference which location you place the meter's black or red lead in) are each in one of the SHORT slots and the voltage on the AC scale is ZERO, then this adapter would be safe.

If the voltage is 240 volts - it is dangerous to use this adapter.

Another way is to open the outlet (with the power off, of course) and examine the side connections of the duplex receptacle. If the tab between the two GOLD screws is broken out, this is a "split" outlet and may have 240 volts between the gold screws. (some cheap outlets no longer have screws, only push in wire connectors - I personally call these devices electrical CRAP!)

A quick lesson for those who may have forgotten (or never knew):
On 120 volt circuits the BLACK wire is considered hot. (the wire could also be red, yellow, blue, orange, etc. but NOT white or green). This wire goes to the GOLD screw, which is connected to the SHORTer slot on the front of the outlet.

WHITE is neural, sometimes called ground. It goes to the SILVER screw, which is connected to the LONGer slot on the front of the outlet.

GREEN, green with yellow tracer, or bare copper goes to the GROUNDING screw, which is also colored green or dark anodized. This goes to the "U" shaped center slot on the front of the outlet.

The ELM3000 does not split the duplex outlet and the questioned adapter will be OK.

Other units, like the WIN PowerPro and Nilota 3500 DO SPLIT the 120 outlet and the adapter would be dangerous.

Please, know what you are doing with electricity or DO NOT DO IT. Generators are not mechanical toys - they can be lethal devices when used improperly. 30+ years as a volunteer in Emergency Medical Services has shown me what can happen with careless use of electrical equipment. My cardiac training and certification has been beneficial to more than one of these poor, careless souls. The result of careless use of electricity is not usually a pleasant sight.

Thanks professor95 and Mr. Wizard. Not only have you saved me $1700 by steering me away from 2 Honda EU2000i's but you may save me from doing something stupid.

When looking at my duplex recepticle, I have what you call "CRAP" with the push connectors. If you are looking down on the backside of my duplex recepticle with one recepticle on the left and right and the short slots being closest to you, this is what I have:

-On the top connection (between the long slots) I have one 14 awg red wire coming from the breaker to the connection on the left. Empty on the right.
-On the bottom connections (between the short slots) I have small black wire connected to the connection on the left and going to an indicator light on the panel. On the right connector I have a 14 awg black wire coming from the generator.
-The 14 awg hot wires are diagonal from each other.

If you can understand my ignorant description, does this mean I can get all available power from one outlet and that the dog bone adapter is the correct one to use (meaning the duplex adapter will cause all hell to break loose?)?



OK, after writing the above I decided to try her out. Running a power strip out of 1 plug, I ran an Iron rated at 1100W and a circular saw rated at 1500W. The RPM's increased but handled the 2600 watts with no problem. I wanted to trip it out so I plugged a space heater in rated at 1500W and turned it on. It handled all 4100W (rated anyway) with no problem. I had them all running for a few minutes and it never tripped. Based on this, I assume all available power is available from one of the outlets. I'm happy, now I need to build a box to make it whisper.

Just turned on a lamp in the house and a bulb blew. Scared me to death after all this electrical talk!



Thanks again for all of your help.

[LittleBill]

well anyway, i got my elim3000 rebate today, just to let everyone know

[professor95]

Please listen to Mr. Wizard!

Please listen to me!

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES plug one of these adapters into any outlet or generator that you do not know is properly wired for its use.

Plugging it into a "split" circuit can cause expensive damage to your RV or equipment and even endanger you and your family.

Properly wired means that on a DUPLEX outlet (standard type of outlets found in all American homes) if you connect an AC voltmeter so that the two leads (makes no difference which location you place the meter's black or red lead in) are each in one of the SHORT slots and the voltage on the AC scale is ZERO, then this adapter would be safe.

If the voltage is 240 volts - it is dangerous to use this adapter.

Another way is to open the outlet (with the power off, of course) and examine the side connections of the duplex receptacle. If the tab between the two GOLD screws is broken out, this is a "split" outlet and may have 240 volts between the gold screws. (some cheap outlets no longer have screws, only push in wire connectors - I personally call these devices electrical CRAP!)

A quick lesson for those who may have forgotten (or never knew):
On 120 volt circuits the BLACK wire is considered hot. (the wire could also be red, yellow, blue, orange, etc. but NOT white or green). This wire goes to the GOLD screw, which is connected to the SHORTer slot on the front of the outlet.

WHITE is netural, sometimes called ground. It goes to the SILVER screw, which is connected to the LONGer slot on the front of the outlet.

GREEN, green with yellow tracer, or bare copper goes to the GROUNDING screw, which is also colored green or dark anodized. This goes to the "U" shaped center slot on the front of the outlet.

The ELM3000 does not split the duplex outlet and the questioned adapter will be OK.

Other units, like the WIN PowerPro and Nilota 3500 DO SPLIT the 120 outlet and the adapter would be dangerous.

Please, know what you are doing with electricity or DO NOT DO IT. Generators are not mechanical toys - they can be lethal devices when used improperly. 30+ years as a volunteer in Emergency Medical Services has shown me what can happen with careless use of electrical equipment. My cardiac training and certification has been beneficial to more than one of these poor, careless souls. The result of careless use of electricity is not usually a pleasant sight.
(edit on 6/11/05 changed "neural" to netural - sorry!)

[toprudder]

MrWizard wrote:
the outlet has to read 120 between the 2 HOT sides

if you try that on an out let in your house or one of the regular outlets in your RV, you will get a 0 ZERO reading
because they are connected togethere

reading a voltage across the TWO hot sides means they are split/seperate/each on a different winding that are wire in phase/parallel

it means half of the generator output is available at each outlet

NOT all the output on either outlet

Am I missing something? If the two windings are each 120v and seperate but in phase, you should read close to 0v between them. You should never be able to read 120v between them. If each winding is 120v but 180 degrees out of phase, you will read 240v. If you read EXACTLY 0v between them, then they are probably tied together in the outlet, like you said.

[MrWizard]

diesln

before you do that

put a meter on that twist lock socket an measure all slots to all other slots

Make sure it is NOT 240 volts and only 120 volts before buying an adpter and plugging in your trailer

[MrWizard]

dieseln wrote:
i just bought a chinese "honda clone" 3000w 3500 peak 6.5 HP.... mine has 1 - 110 three prong outlet (it says 120V 25A stamped on the outlet) and 1 250V 30A twist lock outlet (again info stamped on outlet) - above both these is one decal that say 110vac - single phase.

my problem: it won't run the roof ac on my 87 southwind if i plug into the regular 110 three prong. (sputters and pops)

Question: Can i plug my MH into the 30A 250v twist lock?

My MH powercord has a heavy duty looking dryer type plug...(i have a three prong adaptor to plug into 110.)

can i just get a different adaptor?

I'm new to all this (first RV) and know zip about electricity...except not to mess with it...

thanks,
Ken

yes you can buy a different adapter

but i suspect that it won't make any difference

if it does then the single 3 prog standar outlet is not getting 25 amps

also I suspect that your generator , is one of the brushless ones, that doesn't have the electronic voltage regulator

the ones with electronic regulation handle the power regulation better , and seem better at taking A/C start up current surge

you may want to spend the $ about 20 for a 'hard start kit' for the A/C unit , in most cases it really helps, there is anice thread on this that started yesterday { i think }

[MrWizard]

Clark W. Griswold wrote:

MrWizard wrote:

youth4him wrote:
Now, why is that adapter any better than the pigtail I'd used for shore power?

it depends on the generator in use

some of these units where it is 120 ONLY
have the windings wired parallel ( standard procedure )
but the 2 windings are not wired together on both ends
instead the common/wht ends are wired together and the HOT/blk ends are each hooked to 1/2 of the duplex recp
in other words one socket on each winding,
and each socket gets only 1/2 of the total amperage available
to get all the amperage you rewire the generator recp OR use a duplex adapter
the generators with 120/240 option are wired diffeently
too be safe do these 2 things
start the genny and plug a volt meter into the 2 HOT sides of the 2 recp
if it reads 220 do NOT use the dual duplex adapter
if the voltage reads 120

If you have a total of 120 between the two than there would be no difference in the dual adapter and a single adapter?

I tried the dual adapter for a short time with the ELIM 3000 and it everything worked and there were no obvious problems.
I have not tried a single adapter to see if it would do the same.

you didn't comprehend , Everything I said

the outlet has to read 120 between the 2 HOT sides

if you try that on an out let in your house or one of the regular outlets in your RV, you will get a 0 ZERO reading
because they are connected togethere

reading a voltage across the TWO hot sides means they are split/seperate/each on a different winding that are wire in phase/parallel

it means half of the generator output is available at each outlet

NOT all the output on either outlet

[cufor98]

Thanks Mr. Wizard. Makes sense. I'll put the meter on it next chance I get. I won't have a chance to try it on the camper until next weekend.

[dieseln]

i just bought a chinese "honda clone" 3000w 3500 peak 6.5 HP.... mine has 1 - 110 three prong outlet (it says 120V 25A stamped on the outlet) and 1 250V 30A twist lock outlet (again info stamped on outlet) - above both these is one decal that say 110vac - single phase.

my problem: it won't run the roof ac on my 87 southwind if i plug into the regular 110 three prong. (sputters and pops)

Question: Can i plug my MH into the 30A 250v twist lock?

My MH powercord has a heavy duty looking dryer type plug...(i have a three prong adaptor to plug into 110.)

can i just get a different adaptor?

I'm new to all this (first RV) and know zip about electricity...except not to mess with it...

thanks,
Ken

[Clark_W__Griswo]

MrWizard wrote:

youth4him wrote:
Now, why is that adapter any better than the pigtail I'd used for shore power?

it depends on the generator in use

some of these units where it is 120 ONLY
have the windings wired parallel ( standard procedure )
but the 2 windings are not wired together on both ends
instead the common/wht ends are wired together and the HOT/blk ends are each hooked to 1/2 of the duplex recp
in other words one socket on each winding,
and each socket gets only 1/2 of the total amperage available
to get all the amperage you rewire the generator recp OR use a duplex adapter
the generators with 120/240 option are wired diffeently
too be safe do these 2 things
start the genny and plug a volt meter into the 2 HOT sides of the 2 recp
if it reads 220 do NOT use the dual duplex adapter
if the voltage reads 120

If you have a total of 120 between the two than there would be no difference in the dual adapter and a single adapter?

I tried the dual adapter for a short time with the ELIM 3000 and it everything worked and there were no obvious problems.
I have not tried a single adapter to see if it would do the same.