3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[mavapa]

Hi Barton Fam - your experiment with sound damping probably is doing more redirection of sound than reducing. But that is probably OK. For example, if you could bounce the sound upwards, it would reduce the sound levels all around the generator at ground level. I have considered doing something like that with mine, when the time comes to take another trip. A topless box would help eliminate the problems of venting.

[Barton_Family]

Thanks, Professor! I do try and look back to find this stuff, but you are correct, it's tough to find things now. As for the 0 volts between the 2 hot sides of the outlets, would this indicate they are not tied together as some other units seem to be? I think I just need to take the cover off and start tracing wires.

[professor95]

Then I tested the hot side of both and got 0 volts (meter lead in the hot side of each outlet). I then tested each to ground (the bolt on the genset designated for grounding) and read about 58 volts? That might have been a fluke though. I didn't test the 240 volt side.

We discussed this earlier, but the forum has grow to such a huge size it is difficult to find.

Generators do not treat ground, or netural, like your home and tie it to a common earth ground buss. That process is (may be)accomplished in the device the generator feeds. Your TT is NOT tied to earth ground until it is plugged into a shore power source. With a generator, earth ground does not exist unless you make one with a grounding rod. The GROUNDING lead (green or bare wire) that taps to the middle or 3rd prong on the 120 outlet is attached to the generator frame. GROUND or NETURAL is NOT connected to the frame. Therefore, you will get some seemingly "unusual" voltage readings when checking in the conventional manner.

[Hatch-TX]

GotLift wrote:
I'm looking for a generator for a side business that I'm starting and the ELM3000 is in the price range that I'm looking for to start. As of 9/15/05 is this genset still available? I can't even find a generator on the Pep-Boys web site.

Thanks

I never found a generator on the Pep Boys website. But they are definitely in the stores. You have to visit or call to find out exactly which models are in your local store.

[GotLift]

I'm looking for a generator for a side business that I'm starting and the ELM3000 is in the price range that I'm looking for to start. As of 9/15/05 is this genset still available? I can't even find a generator on the Pep-Boys web site.

Thanks

[jimpcon]

LLeopold wrote:
I have the same experience as guy48065, there appears to be more noise generated from the recoiler side than from the muffler side on my PP3500.

Ditto!!!

[Barton_Family]

More on the Amico 3300...wiring question and sound dampening attempt.

Tested a couple of other things tonight. Not much time to devote after work and family stuff...

Maybe the Professor or Mr. Wizard or anyone else who is familiar with electrical setups can help me figure this out. The book that came with the genset is a one-size fits all across their product line. Really general stuff. The schematic is NOT for my unit. So, in trying to figure out how this thing is wired I did the following:

There is a toggle switch on the front to switch between the 240 and 120 volt outlets. On the 120 side, I tested the top and bottom outlets independently and had about 125 volts on each one. Then I tested the hot side of both and got 0 volts (meter lead in the hot side of each outlet). I then tested each to ground (the bolt on the genset designated for grounding) and read about 58 volts? That might have been a fluke though. I didn't test the 240 volt side. Does that say anything about the way this thing is wired, at least on the 125 volt side? The specs say it has 240 at 15 amps and 125 at 30 amps. I am wondering if I make a adapter from 2-125 volt plugs to 1-30A RV plug, similar to the one some of you bought on eBay, tying the two plugs together inside the adapter, will that in theory give me 30 amps, based on the way the 125 volt plugs seem to be wired? Sorry for the long question. I have gotten a bit confused....

I tried a little experiment with quieting the gen last night. I had my wife stand about 7 yards away and I started the gen. She thinks it’s much quieter than our Generac unit. Anyway, I laid a piece of OSB siding on each of the short ends of the gen. Mild dampening of the sound. I then put a long piece of plywood siding along the long side of the gen facing my wife. She said she could hardly hear it. I swapped places with her and had her pull the side boards off then the long board. The side boards made a little difference but the long board across the front really made a huge difference in blocking the noise. I may just settle for this, take 3 pieces of ¾ plywood (heavy though) and hinge these to make a 3 panel divider. I would then put dowel pins in the top edge of the divider and lay an 8-12 deep piece of plywood there, which would slide over the wooden dowel rods, to make kind of a cap to help redirect the sound. What do you think? Reasonable or too much? Anyone else try another method?

[amgaan]

Anybody have the "cliff notes" version of this thread?
:?

[Krazyjohnny]

I was wondering what type of insulation Honda uses on their EU3000is and how much air flow is used.

lleopold... I have got to see your enclosure. I am thinking of using some closed cell vinyl nitrile foam insulation that is foil backed on one side and attaching it to a diamond plate aluminum box that is hinged where I can gain access to the generator. Yes I intend to vent it for exhaust and intake air.

[LLeopold]

I have the same experience as guy48065, there appears to be more noise generated from the recoiler side than from the muffler side on my PP3500. I put a large corrugated cardboard box over the unit for a few minutes, as someone had done quite a few posts back with another generator, just to see how much noise reduction occurs, and what a difference! My plan to enclose the unit with a properly constructed and vented enclosure (with wheels) should reduce the noise to that of a Honda eu2000i or lower, easily. This weekend's project...

BTW, radaglast: I store my gasoline in a garden shed in the backyard where I store my lawn mower, and other garden items. It is a vented structure; but, if you're smelling gas from your storage container, you may have a leak (crack in the gasket?) or venting problem with your can. Is your can closed tight with the spout closed or removed? You may need to replace it.

When on the road, since I have a spray-in polyethylene bed liner in the truck, I secure the container to the truck so that it makes full contact with the liner. Others who do not have a liner will use a rubber mat under the container so that a) it won't slide, and b) reduce the chance of static charge buildup.

[guy48065]

In my testing of the PP3500 I found the noise was lowest when facing the muffler side. At first that didn't make sense but in reality the noisiest part of the genset is the fan under the recoil starter. It's on the opposite side of the muffler. This finding is supported by what Paul at Champion had told me about the noise measurements done on their generator. Manufacturers will always state the lowest number obtained, for obvious reasons. When comparing 2 gensets make sure you face the same end on both--they really sound quite different from each side.

[Barton_Family]

toprudder wrote:
The problem with quoted dB noise levels is that you must know the conditions under which they were measured. It is really important to know the distance at which the level was measured, since sound drops 6dB for every time the distance is doubled.

Understood. I tried to only look at units with the same posted specs, ie: "74dB at 7 meters" or "65dB at 21 ft." etc. These should be close enough to be consistent. But, there are other factors I am sure that a consumer will never know as far as the area and how the units were measured. All we can go by is what is posted by the manufacturer. Some list at 1/2 load as well as full load, those that don't specify are SUPPOSEDLY at full load. Because I had a specific concern about the noise of my Generac, I made sure that my selection was rated at the same distance and load. The Kipor unit is rated at 64dB at 7 meters and I really can't see how it is so much quieter than the unit I have if both were measured at the same distance and are only 1dB different.

[toprudder]

Barton Family wrote:
Very little difference in noise, at least to my ear. The Generac is rated at 73db and the Amico at 65db. Maybe with some sort of noise meter but not to my ear. They were very close.

The problem with quoted dB noise levels is that you must know the conditions under which they were measured. It is really important to know the distance at which the level was measured, since sound drops 6dB for every time the distance is doubled.

[Barton_Family]

jjleprikon wrote:
Anyone know about the Amico 3000/3300? I saw that question asked a few pages back, but no responses yet. I like that one because it seems to be smaller and is advertised to run longer, but then it is fewer watts too.

I received my Amico 3300 yesterday. I would guess there was about 12 lbs. of packing material consisting of portable power supply boxes flattened out inside the shipping box. Did the job though and the generator arrived unharmed and with no oil spilled as others have had happen. I must say that I am NOT impressed with the noise of this unit. Seems to be made well enough. Not as good as my Generac, but it's also half the price. I placed the Amico and the Generac within about 5 feet of each other, started one, and walked 23 feet away, then the same with the other. Very little difference in noise, at least to my ear. The Generac is rated at 73db and the Amico at 65db. Maybe with some sort of noise meter but not to my ear. They were very close. And, the Generac can be quieted down by the use of the smart throttle-type feature. All in all, I think I just blew $350. Added to the cost of the Generac, that put me just over what the Kipor inverter (another Honda knockoff) would have run me. But it is rated at 64db, just slightly less than the Amico. Makes me wonder how accurate these noise ratings are. I have to do some voltage tests tonight and see what happens with running my air and so on. I suspect I will have to do some rewiring as many of you have already done with your gensets. The Amico has two recepticles rated at 120v/15amp and one 240/20amp. All in all, since I was buying the second genset to get around some of the noise complaints of the Generac, I am very disappointed. It may run great, but if it's too noisy, I'll never get a chance to find out how well it might run. For those who might be interested in this unit, I will post the results of the power output tests once I've had a chance to run them.

Have any of you successfully built a noise reduction box for your gensets? That is my only option now.

Thanks!

[allstar59]

I think bob b just answered my question from a few posts back....

thanks