3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[sltintexas]

Well I did some more research while at Pep Boys on why they didn't have the newer version. I first talked to a guy there and he said I was wrong that I could get 3000 from one plug on the old version and that there was no new version. He also said that the curcuit breaker was the toggle switch. I asked him to hold on while I called the tech number.. he then conveniently disappeared and went to lunch. I talked to Mike at the number above and he first said that the old unit would work fine and that they were the same. I told him about splitting the 3000 watts and he then said I was right and it sounded like I needed the newer version. He told me to tell the guys to order me one of the new ones. At that point I talked to another Pep Boys associate and he confirmed that there was 2 versions but for some reason they haven't ever gotten it and they can't order it and specify which one because they have the same SKU and model number. He did mention another store that had them and gave me the managers name and phone number to call to see if they had one...much more helpful and knowledgable than the first guy.

Anyway, be aware of that if you are looking for a unit at your Pep Boys. There are still a bunch of old ones out there. This store had approx 10 of the old ones and they said they had just recieved that shipment.

[oldschoolrig]

Does your power pro 3500 a different item number? The old style one is #56350. My Pepboys only has the old style and i want to see if they can order a new style one, but I don't know if they'll know what I'm talking about if I say the new one with a switch that can supply full wattage to one plug..



Thats odd I just checked my manual and it has the same Item#56350. One thing I would check is the manual date mine has 07/05. Might try calling customer service ((888)315-3080)see if they can help out.

[sltintexas]

oldschoolrig wrote:
I went out bought a power pro 3500 at the local Pep Boys. The above poster is right the newer versions now to have the switch installed.

Does your power pro 3500 a different item number? The old style one is #56350. My Pepboys only has the old style and i want to see if they can order a new style one, but I don't know if they'll know what I'm talking about if I say the new one with a switch that can supply full wattage to one plug..

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread, I read the whole thing... took me all day! Great read!

[Bahamaboy]

Does any one know what the exhaust temp is on one of these units??

Thanks for any info

[oldschoolrig]

Just wanted to say THANKS!!! to everyone that contributed to this topic. I just recently purchased a motorhome and wanted a new generator. While our first experience was a nightmare and was thinking about giving up on the whole RV thing. We decided to give it another try. First step was to find a generator that was reliable. I started looking the Hondas and Yamahas and was blown away with the prices. I stumbled on to this forum and BINGO after about 3 hours of reading. I went out bought a power pro 3500 at the local Pep Boys. The above poster is right the newer versions now to have the switch installed. Went out for New Years and this generator was a rock(solid). Compared to the average generator out there it was very quite. Ran a DVD Player, TV, Lights, and a ceramic heater. The generator did surged a little bit on the Heater but picked it up and kept going. I did not have the Orange Adapter but will pick one up tommorow. Even then was very impressed. Thanks Again!!!

[Hawklover]

boucher1 wrote:
have you been able to identify the manufacturer of your genset

Jiang Dong. It's labeled so on the shroud. They got the ball rolling with the original Elim so it's all good.

[boucher1]

crownergis wrote:
I bought the Nikota display (last unit available) at my local Utah Costco today. It looks just like Hawklovers. It was $279 - $30 instant rebate, so $249. The "salesman" said they were not replacing them.

Thanks everyone, particularly the professor, for such a good thread. I think this is the way a web forum is supposed to work, but rarely does!! (although I am discovering, the RV crowd is a pretty good crowd!)

Thanks again.

Have you been able to identify the manufacturer of your genset.

Thanks

[crunch1]

I bought the Wen 3500 from Pep Boys on the 24th for $279. I sent a copy of the schematic to Mr.Wizard to verify what I thought about the output connections. There is a 120 duplex outlet that you can get full amps out of without rewiring. There is a switch to change from 120 to 220. The voltmeter changes in accordance with the output. Reads 120 when switched to 120 etc. I found the little orange adapter, shown earlier in this long, long post, which has the 30 amp female outlet in it, at a flea market near here yesterday for $11.00.
I was at PB's to get some oil today and noticed that a new shipment of these had just came in and all had the same setup as mine.
As everyone else has said "thanks for all the input from a lot of people", and Happy New Years to all of you.
crunch1

[crownergis]

I bought the Nikota display (last unit available) at my local Utah Costco today. It looks just like Hawklovers. It was $279 - $30 instant rebate, so $249. The "salesman" said they were not replacing them.

Thanks everyone, particularly the professor, for such a good thread. I think this is the way a web forum is supposed to work, but rarely does!! (although I am discovering, the RV crowd is a pretty good crowd!)

Thanks again.

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
assumed you did not know/belive that diodes are involved, because NO drawing had been posted showing them

Oh no, I knew they were there back in April and were involved. I just did not know YOU did not know - I assumed you did (which was a wrong assumption). Sorry the schematic was not posted earlier.

[redeyes]

Hi,
I am a newbie here, found this forum yesterday while researching my new nokita generator from Costco. Lots of info here--Thanks everyone! I did a little test tonight. Connected 3 500w halogen lights and a 1350w space heater to the little nokita. No problem at all it purred right along. With no load voltage was 121.6 -with 2850w load voltage was 118.2 using digital vom. Then I connect my bench grinder also, when I turned it on everything went up in flames!! JUST KIDDING. Actually the voltage droped for a second then came back up to 118. Same test with 5000w Generac no load=126.5 with load 111.7. I am impressed so far!! BTW everything used in this test was made in China. I found this parts link: http://m-and-d.com/MD-EN65_Parts.html?id=mJAoTJpA

[MrWizard]

professor95 wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
at least there is a clearly marked diode in the feild circuit winding NOT just a cap.

OK, now some things previously shared on the Forum begin to make sense. I made the assumption that you knew about the diode(s) a long time ago when you said something about the output waveform having a similarity to a diode going into avalanche. I guess we all know what happens when you "ASSUME" something :D.

No, a capacitor alone would not provide voltage regulation. We both knew it, but I was not aware of the "missing piece" in your puzzle.

I noticed the use of the diode in the regulator circuit months back after looking at the manual for the Harbor Freight #91213 Generator Set. This unit is a little brother for my ELM3000 made by the same Chinese company.

This is the schematic that shows the diode(s). Sorry I did not share it earlier.....

well I did say, I had seen a picture of an armature with diodes on it..

and you cannot be faulted, when MFG publish incomplete schematic drawings,

you and I, make/base are diagnostic decisions on these drawings

I assumed you did not know/belive that diodes are involved, because NO drawing had been posted showing them

[Skibane]

professor95 wrote:
No, a capacitor alone would not provide voltage regulation. We both knew it, but I was not aware of the "missing piece" in your puzzle.

Just a guess, but R1 and R2 (the "Over Volt Protective Resistance" in your schematic) may be MOVs (metal oxide varistors). If so, they could provide some voltage regulation, by reducing their resistance when the field voltage rises above their trip-point.

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
at least there is a clearly marked diode in the feild circuit winding NOT just a cap.

OK, now some things previously shared on the Forum begin to make sense. I made the assumption that you knew about the diode(s) a long time ago when you said something about the output waveform having a similarity to a diode going into avalanche. I guess we all know what happens when you "ASSUME" something :D.

No, a capacitor alone would not provide voltage regulation. We both knew it, but I was not aware of the "missing piece" in your puzzle.

I noticed the use of the diode in the regulator circuit months back after looking at the manual for the Harbor Freight #91213 Generator Set. This unit is a little brother for my ELM3000 made by the same Chinese company.

This is the schematic that shows the diode(s). Sorry I did not share it earlier.....

[feistycapn]

And by all means install a CO detector in the enclosed space!!!

I could only find a marine version that runs on 12V Co Detector with Generator shutdown. I suspect there are 120v equivalents.

On further research this looks like a RV version that might work also PPL sells it but here is the Mfg site, CCI

PPL sells it here