3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Navychop]

"harmonics" repair for "some" sine wave correction. Gonna take somebody that knows a LOT more than me to explain fully.

But yes, bad sine waves can degrade electronics- maybe something else? Some motors?

[LittleBill]

don't know what ur worried about with the sine wave crap, i ran 7 computers off my elim3000, no problems, i run tons of stuff off of it, everything in ur rv won't be a problem, people just blew this sine wave******out of proportion, almost nobody will have an appliance that will experience a problem with it.


line conditioners on the other hand, if i remember correctly only remove noise from the power, i highly dought it reforms the sine wave pattern

[Navychop]

There are line conditioners, but they aren't cheap. Plus, you end up with more "things" taking up more space and costing more overall.

[sniffid]

NsvyChop,
I have run my 13.5K BTU and Microwave simultaneously using my Elimn3000 without a problem.

Ringo,
I've also used my laptop many times using the Elim3000. The laptop had a power adapter which conditions the power so it doesn't matter about the Elim AC ouput, it works fine.

[Ringo5000]

Is there any way to condition the power from a gen like this to be able to run a pc and digital appliances?

[Navychop]

Well, let’s see if I can organize my thoughts in writing, and maybe come to a decision.

A 3000W is quieter, lighter and can probably run my 15,000 BTU RV a/c. At least some seem to be based on the Honda but it’s hard to determine if they output a good sine wave. But they cannot be paralleled with another generator to up the power- so I’d better be sure 3000W is big enough. There are 2 I’m looking at: The Elim ELM3000CLE for $370 plus shipping (link) and the Cobra DFD3000H for $200 plus shipping (link) -or is it worth paying $750-$1,200 plus shipping to get the Kipor KGE3500Ti (link). I’m having a hard time understanding the differences between these generators.

The $400 plus shipping Elim 6500- (ELM6600 link. ) says it’s based on the Yamaha (which?) and may or may not have a good sine wave. For sheer power, it will run the RV a/c, microwave, water heater and maybe everything else, all together, with an adapter to the 30A twist plug.

Then there’s always the Elim ELM5000CLE Diesel for $780 plus shipping ELIM diesel link. But since that’s 85 dBA, I guess I’d better pass on that one- probably should forget diesels entirely. Especially since I’ve also discovered some of these Chinese diesel generators can weigh over 350 lbs! The smallest I’ve seen was about 210 lbs.

Low sound levels are desirable, but not an absolute requirement. Anything will be quieter than the Coleman 5000ER we previously owned. We would use it at home when we lose power for an extended period, but mostly at a campground where we own the lot. Power is not available 5 months out of the year, and sometimes fails when it is available. But the generator can be in a shed so that will cut the noise. We probably would not take it on the road with us as we are unlikely to dry camp anymore.

Things to run off it include some electronics, including TVs (incl flat screen), satellite receivers, usual audio-video stuff, microwave, water heater, a/c. At home it could run the fridge, sump pump (a major reason for purchase), even fancier a-v electronics and computers. Lights, of course- we mostly use compact fluorescents.

The ~$200 price difference between the 3000 and 6500 models is not a major concern. I’d go ahead and pay for the Kipor if I really thought it was significantly better somehow, like the so called perfect sine wave (just to be on the safe side for future uses). But She Who Must Be Obeyed has decreed that it MUST have electric start.

I’ve gone thru the last 11 pages of this thread, looking for some sine wave data I remember reading (yes, I’ve been keeping up with the thread and have read it all). Turns out, the info was in a different thread (generator waveforms). Anyway, I finally found the sine wave link I was looking for: sine wave link. I just have no idea if the Elim sine wave shown is safe for my electronics. Certainly looks better than the stepped square waves.

I have posted a lot here because I believe several others are going thru the same process of picking a generator, and hope this will be of some us. It certainly can be, with input from you guys- especially on the (again!) sine wave issue.


Gotta post this now, finish up later.

[Navychop]

Thanks, but we're now leaning toward more power, to run a/c in trailer and perhaps microwave, etc, at the same time. Alt use would be for home when power goes out. Maybe we should rethink the 3kW, but for a couple hundred more, maybe larger and harder to steal is the way to go. I expect the larger one on a light load would run longer.

We're mostly looking at the Elim Storm 6500 for $700, $850 delivered if I don't drive 8 hours to pick it up- or the Cobra 6500 for $400, $620 delivered insured. I've noted the shipping damages people have posted. I need to figure out if they both put out similar, and very good, sine waves and any other differences between them. I need to go back and read up on which ones need rewiring for full power on one plug- necessary for RV use.

Torn between keeping it light use, gas fine- or planning on more heavy duty use, pay twice as much or more for a 5kW diesel over 6.5kW gas. But if the diesels have particularly dirty sine waves, that kills that option.

[professor95]

OK- I lost that one, bid over. But he has a $400 electric start version, 6500W. Does anybody know if this also has a really good sine wave?

For my purposes (RV field power) the 74dba sound rating would be too high. Bigger the engine, higher the sound level. The 67dba of the 200cc engines is about the max acceptable in most campgrounds allowing generators.

I'm not trying to be a smart "you know what", but I need for you to further define what a "really good sine wave" is before I can try to answer that question. Maybe the real question here is what type of equipment do you plan on powering with such a generator?

[bassman1]

Navychop he has more buy now 200.00 the 6500 I think would be too big too loud
for an rv setup
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-3000W-GAS-GENERATOR-WITH-ELECTRIC-START-HI-QUALITY_W0QQitemZ7577758012QQcategoryZ106437QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Navychop]

One more question- there are 6500W diesel generators on eBay that all look the same- Element Power Systems & Sterling, for example. I assume they are also Chinese. 72dB. Should last a long time and require less maintenance or repairs, being diesel, which might make the higher cost worthwhile.

Anybody own one or know anything about them or their sine waves?

[Navychop]

OK- I lost that one, bid over. But he has a $400 electric start version, 6500W. Does anybody know if this also has a really good sine wave?

[Navychop]

I gotta reboot my eyeballs and get back to that site ASAP!

[professor95]

3000W manual start for $200.

3000W electric start for $1,000.

Only looks good next to Honda 3000W for $1,800.

Ouch!

Uh, I think something got missed....... $1,000 is the MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) according to the posting, his advertised cost for the 3000W electric start is $199.00.

[Navychop]

3000W manual start for $200.

3000W electric start for $1,000.

Only looks good next to Honda 3000W for $1,800.

Ouch!

But thanks for the link.

Now to think....

[professor95]

Well I killed this thread

Naw, its just after a 10 month run we take a lot of vacations. Give it a few days. Every time I thought it had run its course, another flurry of postings would appear.

Yes, the $199.00 unit you gave us a link for looks enticing. It may be a JD unit as well (????). Shipping is steep at $129.00, but a total of $329.00 for an electric start is pretty darn good.

Thanks for the post.....