3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[hrspecialist]

OK hgarraway, I ordered the part, now what do I do with the $50 worth of components I just purchased to assemble the dogbone??

[hrspecialist]

I can see no reason why this unit wouldn't work and the price is very reasonable. Because of the wiring configuration of my new Nikota 3000 watt generator, this should do the trick.

I'm able to run the 12,500 BTU A/C on one side of the generators duplex plug but want to spread the load by providing more surface area.

Appreciate your help, hgarraway

[hgarraway]

hrspecialist, This may work better for you than the dogbone Power Maximizer

[hrspecialist]

Does anyone have a schematic for a "dogbone" configuration? That would be going from both sides of the duplex receptacle on the panel of the generator to an RV 110V 30amp receptacle??

The Professor posted a picture of one about a year ago, but it did not illustrate a wiring configuration.

The full power of the generator is delivered to this common (not split )receptacle.

[MrWizard]

Dianne and Tom wrote:
We just got back from a trip to Florida and the Pep Boys generator did ok. With little load on the generator and a wall voltmeter from Camping World with little load was on the generator the meter shower around 105V but when I turned the air on or the microwave the voltage went up to 115V. Anyone know why? It is not a quite as the Yahama 3000 but will do ok for the few times a year that I will use it.
Tom

the 'light' load , did not not cause enough slow down of the engine for the govenor to kick in and pull the engine up to full speed

[nitrification]

NavyChop -

I guess you are stuck with a bad board - since it's under warranty, I'd probably stop right there, box it up and return it for exchange or warranty.

The real question is, is it a bad design (will this happen again, even if you get the board replaced) or was it damaged from the get go at the factory (maybe an assembler put the battery in backwards accidently during its first test run) and killed it then? Even touching the leads in reverse for just a fraction of a second would kill a module or board exactly this way.

Yes, stuff like that drives me crazy too when you know its probably a simple fix.

[Navychop]

Well, the diode replacement in the Kipor is a non-starter. Removing the cover is not enough. It looks like I would have to disassemble the whole thing to get at the circuit board. Under the cover is a heat sink, the ckt board is on the reverse side. One of the bolts is very low, seem to require removal from the frame or bottom to get at. And, of course, the panel itself would have to be removed. I'm quite unhappy that I am unable to fix it myself.

I have pictures if anyone is interested.

[Dianne_and_Tom]

We just got back from a trip to Florida and the Pep Boys generator did ok. With little load on the generator and a wall voltmeter from Camping World with little load was on the generator the meter shower around 105V but when I turned the air on or the microwave the voltage went up to 115V. Anyone know why? It is not a quite as the Yahama 3000 but will do ok for the few times a year that I will use it.
Tom

[hrspecialist]

There has been reference to the "dogbone" adapter to connect both sides of the generators duplex receptacle to a 30 amp RV, 110 V. receptacle.

My new Nikota generator will run my 12,500 BTU A/C from one side of the receptacle but want to spread the load between both sides of the two 13 amp receptacle outputs.

I'm sure I can wire the adaptor but was wondering if anyone had a wiring diagram of for the 'dogbone" configuration for reference?

[Navychop]

Thank you. At those prices, I might pick some up on the way home just to maybe save a trip later. And I know I've got shrink tubing still around. Diodes, too, but they're little puppies. I used to do some electronics hobby work, built Heathkit computers, etc.

I'll open her up tonight and take a look, and some pictures. Hopefully, it will be an obvious loose/disconnection or visible, accessible, diode(s).

[nitrification]

Looks like you got it! Remember, you must have one lead off of the battery to do the diode check. If you are getting 0 ohms both ways, then you have indeed nailed it!

Radio Shack is a good place to buy a replacement diode because you can find a radio shack anywhere and their prices are inexpensive compared to an auto parts store. This diode is probably larger than you need: Radio shack part number 276-1661 6 amp, 50 volts, pack of 4 for $2.49.

Another available is radioshack #276-1143 3 amp, 200Volt inverse, pack of two, for $1.49.

I fixed our old MTD tractor with one and it worked for about 5 years until the muffler fell off and we did not want to deal with that machine anymore.

Solder it if possible and put two layers of heat shrink tubing over it after soldering - I hate to use tape as it gets stick and will unravel.

[Navychop]

OK- just got back. I've tried the low ohms and diode settings as recommended above, using my digital meter. I get "OL" (0) on all settings, both ways on diode setting. Dead diode or diode bridge? Disconnection?

So now, I think we've nailed the problem as the charging circuit.

For our next trick, remove the black end cover on the receptacle end, which is where the red lead runs to, to see what we can see? Mike R, you have one of these, would you do it in my shoes? Frankly, I'm itching to, now, especially with the possible "adjustment." Not sure I can do this tonight, as the honeydew list is screaming. And when my wife gets back to discover I've messed with the gen all night and not the list, she might, too. :W

Mike R- what voltage do you get out of your DC panel receptacle?

If I put this next step off till tomorrow night, I guess it'll be driven by what I hear from the seller about this problem.

[nitrification]

Well, The way things are these days, it could be one of those 'black box' modules that are sealed in goo and have multiple terminals on them! In that case, if it's under warranty, I'd take it back. I know what you mean - as you may have to dig into it, thus voiding your warranty.

The current produced inside the generator (and thus the source of power for your charging circuit) is alternating current. Either just one, or a cluster of two or four diodes are user to rectify the AC current to DC. One diode produces what is called half-wave DC, two diodes with a center-tapped winding or four diodes in a 'bridge rectifier' with a non-center tapped winding will produce full-wave dc. This is when you flip the cycles to all 'push' in one direction giving you dc. You can google these terms for more details.

Here is the deal, if a diode is 'leaky' for whatever reason, current from the battery lead will drain back into the alternator coil (lost in heat) thus draining your battery. A shorted diode will cause a backfeed problem.

A $600 MTD lawn tractor usually has one diode for the charging circuit like this and nothing more. This circuit is designed to just charge the battery for light duty use.

A better quality machine will have regulator module to prevent overcharging the battery when it is fully charged. The diodes could be integrated into this module. the module will usually have a heat sink or will be bolted to something cool like a fan housing to keep it cool.

You can try this instead of waiting a few days: use one 12 volt christmas light bulb from a 10-light set or 5 bulbs in series from a 50-light set. Charge your battery with your charger again. Disconnect a lead from your battery (it does not matter which one, but try the negative if you have a choice). Put the christmas bulbs between the battery and the lead to your generator. If the bulbs light, even if you can barely see them glow, your system is leaky and you have a bad diode or a defective module. If the bulbs do not light, then you will have to use a VOM meter.

If you have an analog VOM, put it on the 10 amp setting instead of using the christmas bulbs - it should read nothing. A digital meter, which is much more sensitive than an analog meter may show a few microamps which is ok. If it reads more than 1 milliamp, then you have a problem.

By the way, the christmas bulbs used this way are also handy for finding shorts in a car like a trunk light stuck on, etc. It won't tell you where, but it will tell you that you have a 'leak'!

I hope this helps!

[Mike_R_]

Navychop, go to page 26 of your owners manual and you will find the wiring diagram, I dont know if it will help, but maybe you can follow the Yellow/Green wire to what they have listed as the "Charging adjustor" and I wonder if it can be adjusted?

[Navychop]

Starts like a lion with charged battery. I don't have a few days to wait on the battery- I think the battery shop test may have simulated that anyway. I can megger some more, but I don't want to take apart the unit unless something turns up. I'll try to do some more testing tonight after it cools down and see if there's something there worth pursuing. You really think the diode would be visible, not encased in some box or other component? I can hope. I guess I'll have to look at how much effort it will take to remove the cover. Don't want to do anything they might claim voids the warrant. Now to go check if my meter has a diode setting....

Thanks to all for all this help.