3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Alohatraveler]

professor95 wrote:

The Champion possibly has a little higher output rating, but will also be a 110/220 unit with split outlets for 120 volts. To run that unit the way most RVers want you will need to do some internal wiring changes.

I saw a power maximizer 30-15 adaptor & your drawings in this thread. It sounds like you don't think the Champion is compatable with those. How can I tell without taking it apart before buying it?

From the picture I have of it, it looks like there are 2 220v receptacles & 2 110v recptacles. As an option, can I replace & rewire one of the 220 recptacles with a 30amp RV recetacle leaving my 110v recptacles free for other use if needed?

[Captain_Bob]

Hello All

Been reading this and other forums concerning chinese generators. Have learned a little about the various brands which helped make my decission to buy one. So I thought I would share some info.

First the one I bought is a Proforce by Powermate. Got it at Pep Boys for $269.00 with a $20.00 rebate so it cost $249.00. This unit is being imported by Coleman Powermate to compete with the other low cost imports. I spoke with there tech support and found that it is Yamaha clone and can be serviced at any of there authorized service centers. They also told me they have ordered plenty of spare parts. Being able yo get service locally was a big factor for me. It is rated 2500 watts continuos and 3125 surge. Having bought a smaller one last year that died after 2 hours I been running this alot to make sure it works.I already have 11 hours on it and changed the oil once after 10 hours. I have been running about 2 hours a night with various loads up to 2000 watts or so. Electric heater,halogen lights,microwave, tv and various power tools all run fine. So I think I got a keeper here. Buy the way all power is available on 1 outlet and this unit is only 120 volt.

Next, reading many posts about Wen power generators I emailed them regarding sevice centers. Below is there response.

Warranty repair starts with a call to 800-3153080. We verify warranty information in warranty file. Contact Sears for a center near the owners home, acquire service order #'s From Sears and create Authorization # for the work to be done. Then we call the generator owner and give the information needed to drop the generator off for repair.

Sears perform non warranty repairs for customers if they desire and are willing to Pay the estimated repair cost provided by Sears.

Sincerely

Frank
Parts and tech manager

Pep Boys has a nice 5000 or 5500 watt Wen in the circular this week.
Hope this info is helpful to some of you.

Bob

[n7bsn]

spectre wrote:
I am wondering if anyone knows where I can find an 18 mfd 500 volt capacitor. I bought one of the older Nikotas and of course they are out of business. I can't seem to find one locally. It round about 2 inches by 3.5 inches round metal encased in blue plastic. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Mouser Electronics and DigiKey both spring to mind

[spectre]

I am wondering if anyone knows where I can find an 18 mfd 500 volt capacitor. I bought one of the older Nikotas and of course they are out of business. I can't seem to find one locally. It round about 2 inches by 3.5 inches round metal encased in blue plastic. Any help would be greatly appreciated

[professor95]

Professor95,
I've read alot of this thread, you are the Guru, & Thank You for all of your enlightening information. I am going to buy a generator as soon as I make up my mind. I appreciate it if you could help me make my decision?

Whoa Nellie! A Guru I am not. Just because it sometimes appears that I might know what I am talking about doesn't always mean that I do :W.

Anyway, my knee jerk goes something like this......

The Homier with a 63 dB sound rating is most likely going to be a rating at no load or somebody's dream. Virtually all of these 160 to 200 cc Honda clone engines can be counted on to have a sound level of 67-68 dB. So..... forget those figures for comparison purposes.

Second, if you read back through this forum you will note that those who have purchased off of e-bay or via some other mail order are extremely happy until they get a malfunctioning or damaged unit that must be returned. Many of these guys end up paying the return shipping, a real disadvantage. There is something to be said for buying from a retail merchant close to your home that will accept damaged and in-warranty returns.

IMHO, both brands are OK units. The Homier unit is manufactured by JiangDong, a well known and established Chinese manufacturer. Champion also seems to have a good reputation for service, parts and support.

The Champion possibly has a little higher output rating, but will also be a 110/220 unit with split outlets for 120 volts. To run that unit the way most RVers want you will need to do some internal wiring changes.

The Homier unit (if it is the one I believe you are looking at) is only a 110/120 volt machine (no 220 outlet) and will provide full wattage to the existing outlets with no wiring changes. Nice for RV use.

So, flip a coin. Either one will serve you well.

[Alohatraveler]

Professor95,
I've read alot of this thread, you are the Guru, & Thank You for all of your enlightening information. I am going to buy a generator as soon as I make up my mind. I appreciate it if you could help me make my decision? I was in Kragen Auto parts yesterday & they have a Champion 4450 (3500 running watts)Peak Watt Generator with pneumatic wheel kit included, on sale for $299. With tax it would be $321.

I also saw a Homier 4K watt gen. (2800 rated watts) on Ebay for $259.99 + $70 shipping= $330 with no wheel kit. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7586321954&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

They appear very similiar in features & output but some of the diferrences that I'm looking at is:

1) The advertised Db on the Homier is 63Db & the Champion is 68Db. Is the 5 Db worth considering?

2) The cost of the Champion is only $9 less but includes the wheel kit. I dont know how much it costs but @ 110#'s I will need to have it to load/unload from my pickup.

Have you had experience or analyzed these 2 units? Your comments & recommendations will greatly be appreciated.

So I guess my question is, should I go for the wheel kit or the 5db reduction set? Or something else?

[hrspecialist]

Professor95, thank you for taking the time to confirm that I would not turn my RV into a neon light.

I certainly agree that before getting too creative with generators insure that what you are doing is safe. I appreciated your concern and trust others will take your counsel seriously.

Have fun in Richmond. Years ago (1950's) I used to live in Charlottesville. My dad was a career Marine and was stationed at the USMC reserve training center there. It was at that time we spent a lot of summers camping at Big Meadows.

Thanks again for your help!

[professor95]

It also appears both sides of the duplex receptacles (high side to high side and low to low) are bridged. With this configuration a "dogbone" should not be a problem. Am I correct?

Yes, you are correct for your particular unit.

But, for others, I stress again: Not all Nikota's and other Chinese generators are wired this way. In fact, most are not. Be absolutely sure you know how your particular generator is made before bridging the outlets with a dogbone or any other device.

[hrspecialist]

Professor95,

On page 21 of this thread, Hawklover, 12/08/05 (11:15 pm), posted a schematic of this model of Nikota (same as mine). On the same page, 12/09/05 (07:18 am), you commented that this generator can provide full current through a single receptacle( would that be a single duplex receptacle or one side of the receptacle?). It appears to me that both sides of the receptacle are parallel with the generator windings.

It also appears both sides of the duplex receptacles (high side to high side and low to low) are bridged. With this configuration a "dogbone" should not be a problem. Am I correct?

I certainly wouldn't want to do anything to damage this unit. I truly appreciate your counsel.

[Navychop]

I wish I'd known of him. I'd have bought from him.

[professor95]

I'm quite unhappy that I am unable to fix it myself.

The RV dealership that I like to do business with in Richmond recently started carrying the Kippor 3500. The parts manager commented to me about three weeks back that his supplier (kippor?) was shipping him "upgrade/repair kits" for the generators he had in inventory due to a factory defect. He was not to sell or run any of the units until the kits were received and changes were made.

I do not know if this in any way relates to your problem, but you might want to check it out.

I probably will not see the individual who told me this until the RV Show next weekend at the Raceway Complex in Richmond. I will try to find out more to share on the forum.

[professor95]

There has been reference to the "dogbone" adapter to connect both sides of the generators duplex receptacle to a 30 amp RV, 110 V. receptacle.

My new Nikota generator will run my 12,500 BTU A/C from one side of the receptacle but want to spread the load between both sides of the two 13 amp receptacle outputs.

I'm sure I can wire the adaptor but was wondering if anyone had a wiring diagram of for the 'dogbone" configuration for reference?

This procedure can damage your generator, your camper and even you "if" your generator is wired in the standard configuration to provide 220 volts total and 110 volts from each 1/2 of the 220 volt winding. The short technical version of the answer is there is a phase angle difference between he two windings and connecting them together at the outlet might make all the smoke come out of the generator and could possibly cause 220 volts to flow through your camper electrical system. (Note the words "might" and "possibly" - certain other faults would need to be present.)

Once again for anyone who does not understand the previous extensive discussion on this topic - DO NOT EVER TIE YOUR 110-120 OUTLETS TOGETHER WITH A "DOGBONE" OR ANY OTHER DEVICE UNLESS YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY SURE BOTH OUTLETS ARE INTERNALLY PARALLEL WITH THE GENERATOR WINDINGS.

Edit added: While it now looks like you and Hugh have indeed determined that this procedure is safe for your particular Nikota generator, I want to emphasize that some (earlier?) Nikota models would not be safe. Please, everybody, be sure you know what you have to work with before you tie outlets together.

[hrspecialist]

Hgarraway, that is a cool idea. I happen to have a six-way in my box of "things left over from something else from another time."

In the summer my wife and I frequent a beautiful state campground in the mountains north of Mojave (high desert) called Redrocks Campground. The geology there is incredible. The daytime temps can reach 110F and there are no hookups. The generator is a must to run the A/C. The nights you turn on the heater.

Thanks guys for your help.

[hgarraway]

hrspecialist,

Heed the advice of LittleBill 🙂

BTW if you go to Wal-Mart and buy a $.99 duplex to six-way adapter you can plug the six-way into your genset then plug the power maximizer into the six-way. The Maximizer will cover 4 of the outlets but leave two accessible so you can plug a worklight and/or other gadget into the generator as well as the RV. I did this for a week after Katrina with my ELIM-3000. The adapter had ample surface area contact and never got warm.

[LittleBill]

chalk it up to inexperience and put it on the side, never know when it will come in handy