3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

I live on the East Coast in NJ and noticed that the "Camper Ready" gensets are somewhat readily available on the west coast, however I can't seem to find one in NJ. Can anyone lead me in the direction on where I can find on pretty quickly? Leave on 5/31/06 on a trip that I will need a new one as mine failed to start after the long winter break....

I posted this info on 5/17. Perhaps you missed it? Anyway, here it is again........

To the best of my knowledge, the Champion RV model is currently only available through the CSK Autogroup store network (Checkers, Schucks, Kragen and Murray auto parts stores). Website ordering can also be done through Partsamerica.com or advanceauto.com.

I have also recently learned that Champion has just included Cabellas (www.cabelas.com ) an outdoor sportsmen company to their list of vendors as well as BJ's Wholesale and Sam's Club in some locations.

If your generator will not start after winter storage I would suggest removing the float bowl cover from the carb and making sure the needle valve and seat are not stuck to one another. Some spray carb & choke cleaner may be beneficial in removing gum deposits, which are most likely the source of your problem. Often, removing the spark plug and squirting some starting fluid in the hole then replacing the plug and giving it a pull or two will start an engine. The resulting vacuum created in the intake is often all it needs to get fuel flowing again.

[btmfdr]

This forum has been a wealth of knowledge, I'd like to thank all of you for your expertise and trial and error (especially P).. Now to my question...

I live on the East Coast in NJ and noticed that the "Camper Ready" gensets are somewhat readily available on the west coast, however I can't seem to find one in NJ. Can anyone lead me in the direction on where I can find on pretty quickly? Leave on 5/31/06 on a trip that I will need a new one as mine failed to start after the long winter break....

Thanks Again for all you assistance....

Mark

EDIT : Looks like Pep Boys in my area carry this unit for $ 329.... Is that the going rate these days?

[camperdave]

I was running my Champion generator this weekend and lost all power! Engine was fine, but the power to my self installed TT-30R outlet was zero. I quickly found the problem, the outlet (Cooper brand) I purchased at a local hardware store was junk! Within about 10 hours of usage, it vibrated apart. I replaced it with a 'Pass & Seymour' brand outlet that is much better (sold at the same store, in the same bin, at the same price), the main difference is that it is assembled with screws instead of the junk one that used rivets (which vibrated loose and the contacts fell out).

Anyway, sort of related since I know I'm not the only one who is installing a TT-30R outlet permanantly to their chinese generators. Make sure you get a good quality outlet! Check the back of it, make sure it's a screw and not a rivet that holds the back of the housing to the body (right in the center on the back).

[Tonka_Truck]

An earlier post asked about weight of the Gensets.
Northren tools has a "sling" to pick up the Chinese Genset if you are loading and unloading by yourself. I made mine out of four tie down straps with hooks on the ends. I used a come-a-long suspended by a short chain from a large eye bolt in the garage door header to load up in my lifted 4x4 F250. In the field, I use a tree or a buddy to unload. I have manhandled it myself when no other choice.

[professor95]

Menard's has a Wen 3000/3500 for $274.00. It has a 20 A duplex receptacle and a 120/240 twistlock receptacle. It also states it is single phase and has a 120/240 switch. If I get this generator and put on a Power Maximizer receptacle combiner, will it be RV ready? Thanks

It should be because of the 120/220 switch. If you connect the adapter and get zero volts on the 120 side when the switch is in that position, we will know we were wrong.

[professor95]

NOW, THIS IS WHERE I WOULD LIKE SOME ADVICE.

I plan on installing this GASOLINE generator into my Montana 5'er. It is going into the front compartment that is meant for a generator. The area below the generator will be open except for wire mesh. The backside and top of the generator compartment will be lined with .030" thick aluminum. The engine and generator head sides will be closed off with aluminum so the cooling air inlet and exit will be through the bottom screened opening. The exhaust will also be piped out under and to the side of my 5'er.

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? GENERALLY ONBOARD GENSETS ARE PROPANE OPERATED. IS IT SAFE TO HAVE A GASOLINE GENERATOR BUILT INTO THE 5'ER? WHAT PRECAUTIONS ARE NECESSARY?

My take on your project is that it should work out OK, provided some additional changes are implemented.

I strongly encourage you to remove the OEM muffler from the generator and relocate it outside the box. Under the camper and away from the wire mesh would be best. You can make the needed flanges to attach to the original piece on the engine from 1/8" to 3/16" steel plate. Cut to the appropriate shape with a saber saw, drill holes for the mounting studs and use a chain saw or rat-tail file to enlarge the exhaust hole.

You may use 3/4" or 1" EMT (Electrical Metallic Tubing)for exhaust pipe. This is available at home centers. Both sizes are bendable with a hand bender or you can buy pre-bent sweeps at 45 or 90 degrees. Connections between the pipe can be handled with couplers - stamped steel are better than the cast type. Add a little muffler sealer dope or high temp RTV from an autoparts store to the coupler connections. Weld or braze the flanges to the pipe ends (this can be tricky). The brazing can be done with a propane type torch using a MAPP cylinder and a "blue flux" brazing rod. You should remove the galvanized coating from the ends before you weld or braze by dipping them in muratic acid. Of course, do all this outside and avoid breathing any vapors.

As far as gasoline vs. propane, gasoline vapors are heavier than air and any present in the cabinet will fall out the bottom mesh. Just as a precaution, I would not fill the fuel tank high enough for it to slosh out while in transit. Also be sure there are no switches that can arc when activated or unbonded metal parts than can build up static charges in or near the vented area of the compartment.

A small fan in one corner of the mesh might be helpful. You don't need much to get air moving around the engine. 4" to 6" 110V or 12V "muffin" fans are available from everything from old computer power supplies to stores like Northern Tool.

I would also suggest covering the outside of the aluminum housing for the box with foil wrapped duct insulation. Use metal tape to secure the foil insulation, not cloth duct tape.

Be sure the generator frame is bonded to the coach frame.

Again, these are my opinions and are not hard & fast rules. It IS how I would handle the project if I were doing what you propose.

Please let us know how it works out.

[Tonka_Truck]

An earlier post commented on keeping his wheel set from the Champion
46535 generator For the new C46540. I had asked Champion about a wheel set and spark plug selection. See below for answer.

"Great choice of generators. This has just been released for sale. When running in sub freezing temperatures, heat range on the spark plugs is more critical for starting than running. Since the engine always has a fresh and cool air supply, I would recommend using a hotter range plug such as a NGK B-6ES or B-7ES for coldest and the colder temps (40F to 70F) I wouldn’t worry about a cold rated spark plug until sustained 80f or above. The wheel kit can be ordered directly from our factory by calling the toll free no. and hit O for the operator. This will connect you to the factory parts center in CA. The kit is $25 plus shipping. Hope this will help you. Call or write me anytime if you need any assistance. We have a 24hr. tech line phone no. for help. The no. is 626-230-5248."
Champion Power Equipment

[bobandcat]

I have purchased one of the Chinese generators from Costco. The Costco warranty is the greatest. If you are ever dissatisfied, just return it to the store. There is no time limit, just have your receipt. The Powerwise 3500 generator has functioned perfectly and has started every time on the first pull.

The Powerwise 3500 runs my 15k AC unit producing 121v continuously. It struggles to run my AC and my 1500 watt microwave at the same time. The voltage output drops to 116v.

I rewired this generator to eliminate the 240v circuit and replaced the 240v outlet with a 30amp RV outlet. The circuit breakers allow 26amp output. The toggle switch is now used to direct 120v to either the standard 120v outlets or the RV outlet depending on its position.

NOW, THIS IS WHERE I WOULD LIKE SOME ADVICE.

I plan on installing this GASOLINE generator into my Montana 5'er. It is going into the front compartment that is meant for a generator. The area below the generator will be open except for wire mesh. The backside and top of the generator compartment will be lined with .030" thick aluminum. The engine and generator head sides will be closed off with aluminum so the cooling air inlet and exit will be through the bottom screened opening. The exhaust will also be piped out under and to the side of my 5'er.

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? GENERALLY ONBOARD GENSETS ARE PROPANE OPERATED. IS IT SAFE TO HAVE A GASOLINE GENERATOR BUILT INTO THE 5'ER? WHAT PRECAUTIONS ARE NECESSARY?

Also, I temporarily just plan on running my power cord to the generator. My Montana was not wired at the factory for a generator. I have not yet studied how to properly wire it into my electrical system. Any info in this area would also be appreciated.

[MTNHNTR]

My voltmeter is OK. I just read the post on previous page by Oldfordman, my neighbor to the north, where he said that the center position of the 120/240 switch turns both off. I went out and ran the generator and sure enough, I had only placed the switch in the center position and thought that it was the 240 position. My bad.

[MTNHNTR]

I posted this question on dcmillard747's other post, but maybe someone here knows the answer. On my Champion RV ready generator, when I place the 120/240 volt switch to 240 volts, my voltmeter goes to zero, yet when switched to 120 volts it shows the proper 120 volts. Do any of yours do that - or maybe I have a defect somewhere?

[dcmillard747]

I am new here and have been following all of the posts regarding the Champion Generators. I have seen the talk about the new generator with the RV plug. I called my local Kragen and they had two in stock. I bought one based on some of these posts. I pulled it out of the box, put gas and oil in, and it fired right up on a half pull. I let it run for a few minutes to check for bugs. I then hooked it up to the trailer. This little generator ran my 13,500 AC (on high) my Micro, and all the inside lights at the same time. It seemed to work pretty well. It is neither silent or loud. It is somewhere in the middle and is tolerable. I figure with the $1,800.00 I saved I can buy a lot of sound silencing material.

[MrWizard]

Terry

I agree completely

[T_Satt_USN_SS__]

I have ran my Champion C4650 (RV model) right next to a 40' class A with an onboard generator that was louder than my portable Champion genset. Shouldn't be a big thing anyway as most campgrounds have quiet hours. I personally think this noise debate about generators is being way overblown. We all put up with loud radios, screaming kids, barking dogs, hollering neighbors, etc while camping; but when it comes to generators oh my goodness! Maybe we should all learn to be just a tad bit more tolerant of each other! Maybe a few of us should also remember when we couldn't afford rolling houses with Honda and Onan generators. 😉

Terry

[GatorFan]

Menard's has a Wen 3000/3500 for $274.00. It has a 20 A duplex receptacle and a 120/240 twistlock receptacle. It also states it is single phase and has a 120/240 switch. If I get this generator and put on a Power Maximizer receptacle combiner, will it be RV ready? Thanks,

[Oldfordman]

camperdave wrote:

professor95 wrote:
A brand spankin' new yellow Champion RV ready generator arrived via Fed-X and was deposited on the threshold of my garage Friday morning.

Awesome! I've been waiting for someone to buy one of these that would be willing to open it up and check out the wiring. I'm just curious how they have it wired, and what size breakers are being used it it, since I have an older Champion that I've rewired myself with a TT-30R plug.

I just bought one from Schucks here in Washington. I too was curious about the wiring. The unit is rated for 29.5 Amps @120 volts at the 30 amp RV plug. They have utilized two 15 amp capacity breakers, one per winding, and when paralleled, they allow just short of the 30 amp output. If one breaker "pops", the other will follow suit due to the instant overload on the remaining winding. There is a "series/parallel" swith on the panel allowing the operator to switch from 120 volt to 240 volt @15 amp without trouble. At the center, the switch is off for all output recepticles.

I have run my 13,500 AC unit without a hitch. Starts right up.

In order to get some running hours on it and break it in, I have been running it to power a fabrication project. Runs a chop saw, drill press and grinder without working up a sweat.

In order to cut down some of the noise, I will be fabricating a baffle to go on the air intake end. A piece of 1/2" plywood with some accoustical foam (2" thick with conical elements) mounted on some flat iron brackets and supported about 6" from the frame. Most of the annoying noise appears to be comming from the air intake and the plastic filter does not silence as well as it could. Just hangind a folded painters drop cloth at the air intake end (about a foot away) dropped the noise noticeably.

All in all it is about as noisy as the Honda EM3500 of several years ago. Mfr advertises 67dba. and they aren't far off.