3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[MrWizard]

dieselmec wrote:
does any one know if the champion c46540 generator has the gas saving feature on them.?

no that feature is for 'inverter' generators that can run a lower speeds when less power is needed

the champions have too run at 3600 RPM all the time

they use less gas when there is NO to little load

I get 6 hours out of a gallon of gas if all i'm doing is charging batteries

about 3 hrs a gallon when using A/C unit

[StaJs]

Gulfcoast wrote:

I will try to buy one online, I guess.

Advance ships fast. I had mine the next day. Shipping was $62.00

[Gulfcoast]

Thanks for the info dash...

I will try to buy one online, I guess.

Thanks

[dash8wrench]

I tried to do the same deal with Advance AP and got the same answer, only in the western CSK stores. I did email Champion and they indicated they had a dealer in the Greensboro, NC area. Now that I've bought the Big Lots gennie, I doubt I'll go looking for the Champion. I think I'll just wire in a 30 amp recepticle and mount it on the frame with adel clamps in a plastic work box.

I need to start working on a mount for the rear bumper and an enclosure for it. I'm thinking about using the melamine faced paneling they sell in Lowes for the outer facing and lining the box either with foil faced insulation or 2" foam and facing the area near the exhaust with aluminum to resist the higher temps in that area. I'm thinking the insulation might be a better "sound trap".

Hmmm, after thinking about those special rooms that don't reflect sound, maybe egg crate foam from a mattress topper would be better. Coat the exposed face with some sort of sealant that won't attack the parent material. Well, looks like a trip to Lowe's and Wally world are in order for today.

[Mr__Tommy]

I'm late to the party here, but I just bought one of the Champion Generators at Kragen. Model 46540. It's the one with the "RV Ready" note on the box with a picture of the RV plug. The other model that does not have the RV plug states it has a 4450 (I think) watt peak, while the one I bought says it has only a 4000 watt peak. Don't know what the difference is.

Unfortunately, I can't give a real conclusive review. I simply took it home, oiled and fueled it up, fired it up, and let it run for about 12 minutes to break it in (per manual). Then I plugged my travel trailer in to it and fired up my a/c. It's an 11,000 btu unit and the manual says it needs a 'minimum' of 2500 watts to run. The 3500 watt Champion ran it like a dream. I plugged my multimeter into the wall socket and it showed a solid 116 volts consistantly. Turning the a/c on and off didn't seem to cause even a hiccup. Now, not being an electrician, this can be viewed as a very un-official test, but for my needs, it passes muster. And for the $300 I paid, I just don't see how I can go wrong.

Oh, and I sent an email to Champion to ask about what I thought was a missing "engine manual" on July 4th, and to my surprise, I got an answer ON the 4th. Now that's customer support!

The answer was, they don't include the "engine manual" anymore because it was just confusing customers. All the info I would need is in the enclosed "owner manual".

I'm totally impressed with that kind of service, and am looking forward to years of (ahem) trouble free service from my shiney new generator...;)

[Gulfcoast]

Hey happykampr...

When i called the guy said... NO free shipping on overweight items... like generators.

Maybe their policy will change someday.

[dieselmec]

does any one know if the champion c46540 generator has the gas saving feature on them.?

[happykampr]

It says "free shipping - orders over $50". Just go to the partsamerica.com website, type in your zip code at the top right, then search out "generator" and choose the C46540. It's $329, but no shipping. Might have to pick it up at Advance. I'm contemplating getting one myself. Wish we had a Kragens around here so we could use that $30 coupon in their sales ad.
I have my "hurricane" generator, but need a quiet one for camping.:B

By the way... if you call your local Advance, they don't know a thing about ordering this generator, it's not in their system.

[Gulfcoast]

I can't believe that the Champion gens are not available thru Advance Auto Parts in the south.

I called and begged the guy to ship me one to an Advance store, and just ship it anytime they had a truck headed south and he said they couldn't... could only buy them online and me pay the shipping.

Anyone know where to get one in the south.... like maybe Atlanta?

Thanks

[MrWizard]

CabanaBoy wrote:
For those of you with the Champion 'RV Ready' 46540, how often do have to add oil to it? I was able to verify that the low oil protection circuit works on mine. After 3 days of 95+ heat this 4th of July weekend, it did cut itself off. I know that you are to check each time you start it, but I ran it constantly for almost 70 hours except for fuel adds. On the morning of the 3rd day it shut down. I added about .2 liter of oil, and it started right up. Is it possible that oil is evaporating due to the high heat? I am REALLY hoping that I don't have a reject here. Also, it does not smoke - no visible signs of burning.

maybe once a week for me

I did the 5hr break in, then changed the oil, and have changed it once as a regular change at 50 hrs instead of the recommened 100 hrs

i changed the sparkplug to ngk 8bes, it made NO difference in the run speed or voltage

but the orginal plug was really dirty, BLACK & sootty

123 NO load

126 with converter

124-5 with microwave or A/C

[MrWizard]

kragen has a coupon special for $30 off ( in their flyer / newspaper adv )

that makes it $299

[RokNDmax]

Thanks for the info, anyone know where to get a good deal on the yellow champion right now ?

[professor95]

RokNDmax wrote:
Is this the right one though ?

http://pepboys.shoplocal.com/pepboys/default.aspx?action=detail&storeid=2315031&rapid=0&pagenumber=0...

Very good price right now $229.

If not, please, a fresh link to a good one at a good price.

No, it is not the "right one".

The model in your link is one that has not been sufficiently reviewed and tested by contributors to this forum. Some have suggested the engine is a Yamaha clone rather than a clone of the Honda GX-200. Personally, I have only seen it in a box at Wal-Mart and in photos like on your supplied link.

Of course, that does not mean it would not be an excellent unit - only that we are lacking information from users.

But, if you do buy this unit, I for one would like to have a good review.

My personal suggestion would be to consider purchasing the other "yellow" generator (Champion) with a known and proven track record for adequate performance with a 30 amp RV. If you prefer to stick with PepBoys, consider the Wen PowerPro 3500 or the Powerwise 3000. Both of these have gotten good reviews on this forum.

Edited to make the quoted URL a link - MELM

[professor95]

Ugly Dwarf wrote:
A quick update...

Last night I fired up the generator and ripped through a thick piece of redwood with no problem.

Your circular saw will pull in excess of 20 amps in locked or near locked rotor condition. You probably got close to that amount of current with the redwood you cut. That rules out a weak circuit breaker in the generator and even a faulty generator itself.

I confirmed that when set to 120, the voltmeter showed ~120. When the switch was set to 240, it showed ~240.

We are OK here - the saw did not go up in a ball of flames so the voltages are what they should be.

I then turned off the breakers on the pannel, unplugged the refridgerator and attempted to power up the trailer. This time it bogged down (as usuaal), but it popped the breakers on the genset.

This is where my understanding gets a little fuzzy.... the breakers you turned off on the pannel are, I assume, in the trailer. Did you turn ALL the breakers off, including the main breaker?

Thinking you turned everything off, the only connection to the generator would be the big black power cord, a junction box just inside the cord door, and a piece of 10-2/WG NMC running under the trailer and possibly up a wall into the pannel box. There should be NO physical connection between any of the wires in these cables following this path.

I have seen some pretty sloppy and scary electrical work in my days. Examples are staples and nails driven into a conductor or even bridging two conductors. Knots getting into the cables while someone is pulling them through drilled holes or raceways - rather than unknot the cable they just pull harder until the insulation is completely ripped off and exposes bare conductors. Steel angle or other conductive materials can be placed against the cable and vibration will abrade the insulation. An example would be wires run between the metal frame or cross members of your trailer and the subfloor or sleepers. None of these situations is suppose to exist - but they sometimes get past inspectors.

Now let's get back to possibilities in this situation.

The black wire inside the NMC sheathed #10 feed cable is connected to the circuit breaker. When the breaker is off, this wire should have no further connection to anything in the camper.

The white wire will be connected to a buss bar in the pannel box. The buss bar should not have any connection to any part of the camper other than the "long" slot on your duplex outlets.

The green or bare copper wire will be connected to a second buss bar. This buss bar will be connected to the metal framework of your camper.

"If" the neutral (white wire) and grounding wire (green or bare) are shorted together in the feed circuit for your camper, the metal frame of your camper will be "HOT" in reference to the opposite pole or winding in your generator. This situation can create a high current "ground loop" in a generator, which is isolated from true ground.

This ground loop would not exist when plugged into campground power since both the neutral and grounding wires ARE connected in the campground power pod. You would have a new situation known as a ground fault that a conventional breaker would not recognize and trip. Your could confirm this by plugging your camper into a 20 amp GFCI protected duplex outlet using your adapter - the GFCI should turn off.

Result of the loop/fault? What you are experiencing........

It sounds like a problem with the trailer wiring, but it seems odd that it works on shore power in a campground and off the plugs at my house

Yes, California, you very possibly have a potentially serious and dangerous problem lurking in your trailer. It is not my intention to try and scare anyone and I certainly hope I am not preceived to be overreacting. I cannot be 100% sure of what is going on since I am not there to run the proper test. Still, I would not take chances on the odds that I am wrong and it is something else.

[Tonka_Truck]

There will also be a break-in period for the rings to seat. I ran mine for the 5 hours before changing break in oil, changed it and ran for a week without adding more oil. This is my second genset, my other one after breakin ran so long (2wks plus) I had even forgotten about the low oil cutoff switch when it died and I added oil again. Did you change your oil after the breakin period per the owners manual?