3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[deshemar]

MrWizard wrote:

these are all air cooled portable generators,

keep this in mine, when wiring a remote, the genny will NOT be inside a trailer compartment, it needs to be where there is suffiecent air circculation

the wire will have to reach the outside where the genny is

parallel to your shore cord ?

also the electric start will need a battery or wires to the exsisting batteries

also this affects the storage and use of the generator

Thanks for the heads up with your thoughts. My idea - don't know how it would work without having the genny yet - was to bring a remote switch to the inside of the TT through the same hole as the shore power cord (running with the shore cord approx same length)and make up some kind of quick connect plug pigtailed off the start switch of the genny. That way i could use the genny independent of the the TT if needed/wanted. Could use some input on this idea but also had a question if the Duro Power is OK or should I go for the champion - see lots of info on the champion but not much on the Duro Power

[MrWizard]

deshemar wrote:
Wow there is a ton of info here. I have been searching through this and have seen a lot of info about the champion c46540. I like this one with the RV plug done. However, was comparing it to the DuroPower 3500 Electric start. Any info on the DuroPower - I have not seen much on it in this tread and my search has turned up some info from other threads that make it look ok. Any words of wisdom on the comparison.
I like the idea of Electric Start but am certain from all the posts the champion is an easy start - Was thinking of wiring a remote start switch in the HTT:B

these are all air cooled portable generators,

keep this in mine, when wiring a remote, the genny will NOT be inside a trailer compartment, it needs to be where there is suffiecent air circculation

the wire will have to reach the outside where the genny is

parallel to your shore cord ?

also the electric start will need a battery or wires to the exsisting batteries

also this affects the storage and use of the generator

[deshemar]

Wow there is a ton of info here. I have been searching through this and have seen a lot of info about the champion c46540. I like this one with the RV plug done. However, was comparing it to the DuroPower 3500 Electric start. Any info on the DuroPower - I have not seen much on it in this tread and my search has turned up some info from other threads that make it look ok. Any words of wisdom on the comparison.
I like the idea of Electric Start but am certain from all the posts the champion is an easy start - Was thinking of wiring a remote start switch in the HTT:B

[SLCNewbRver]

Again thanks for quick response! My cub 236 has a High Pointe model EM925BSC. rated voltage 120v 60hz 2450 mhz, rated input pwer 1400w, rated output pwer 900w.

Microwave works fine and timer works fine if plugged into my home....issue is the timer with genny....as stated seems to go 2x as fast?...but still cooks the food and as the professor said guess i need an egg timer for proper cooking time for my popcorn. Any chance that the altitude had something to do with it? Less efficiency= distortion for the timer on micro?

And as wizard stated am i really losing that much efficiency on the genny? 5-10 % for every 1000 ft? That means that if I am at 8000 ft my genny is only running at 60% capacity cause I lost 40% at the low end of the example above? Wow that is good to know.

Any suggestions as to how to get the micro clock food timer working? Or just have to live with it? Going to be doing considerable micro cooking for upcoming archery hunts for deer and elk, just need to know what i am up against. Thanks in advance.

[professor95]

Other issue is the clock on microwave.....will it not run right ever off the gen? Issue is the timer doesn't work when gen is pwering it.......seems there was thread on that too in the 237 pages...cant seem to find it atm.

This really depends on the brand and design of the microwave. Some microwaves syncronize the clock/timer with the 120 volt AC line frequency. This syncronization utilizes what is called a zero crossing detector. Since the generator does have some distortion on the sine wave, the microwave sees the distortion as an early or repetive zero crossing - this screws up the timer.

That said, I am surprised you are having problems with the Champion and the microwave. My camper has a Samsung microwave that runs at double time when powered by my older ELM3000 generator. That model uses a capacitor as a voltage regulator and has very noticeable distortion on the sine wave. Other than the clock/timer issue, the microwave works normal off of this generator.

I now have a Champon RV model like yours. It has a really nice modular voltage regulator and the sine wave has considerably less distortion than the ELM3000. Thus, my microwave ticks along just fine.

Guess you will need to buy a little wind up egg timer - or spend an additional $1,400.00 for a Honda 3000EU ;).

[SLCNewbRver]

Thank you for the quick reply! I will do that and see what happens. You are right the lake is not that high so maybe they will run together. Other issue is the clock on microwave.....will it not run right ever off the gen? Issue is the timer doesn't work when gen is pwering it.......seems there was thread on that too in the 237 pages...cant seem to find it atm.

[MrWizard]

it MUST stay in the 120 position, the RV ready has it's full output available at the 30amp RV plug at 120 vac ( minus the loss caused by altitude )

your trailer is wired 120 only,

240 volts will damage things, in your trailer

the reason , the genny would not run both the A/C and the MW is power loss

at 8000 ft your genny does not have the same power output ( it's the thin-air carb-engine issue )

engines loose a percentage ( 5 or 10 ?) for every 1000ft of altitiude increase

do what we all do, turn the temp control of the A/C unit over to warm ( so only the blower is running ) throw the popcorn or whatever into the MW, when the item is done, turn the temp control of the A/C back to cool

this way the A/C compressor is not running ( heavy amps ) while the MW is trying to cook

at lower altitude , it might run both it depends, on how much power each uses

at the lake you should be able to run the coffee maker & A/C
If it's not an alpine lake at high altitude

coffee makers uses less amps ( i think ) than the MW.

[SLCNewbRver]

Ok forgive me if this was mentioned earlier. But I have read the massive amounts of pages and cant rememmber where or if i read an answer to my issues here.

Recently my wife and I bought a new 2006 Thor cub 236 and have been amazed at the rv-culture/lifestyle. This forum has been fantastic and very informative. I purchased my champion rv ready gen at cabelas
$399.00 (ouch I know....wonder if they do a price match? Bought it at the store and not online.) Anyways was camping this last weekend and estimate the altitude to be probably around 8000 feet. AC worked like a champ and generator was beautifully quiet compared to some I have heard. Well went for the test to run the AC and pop some microwave popcorn and engine sputtered and about died. =( Temperatures were high even at that altitude...heat wave here in Utah 90 plus degrees even up there. So here is my question........What position does the switch need to be in?.....120 or in the middle or over to the 240? The voltage meter is working fine but when i switch over the the 240 everything dies in trailer. Does the RV plug give me the entire wattage produced from the generator or do I need to do something more? Thought I read something about wiring 'other leg' on my rv pwer chord? Dont know if i read that in forums here or on directions from champ.........guess i have an information overload going on and cant recall where I got it hehe.

I am not very techy, so go easy on me. And like my name states am a newb to the boards here. But all I really want to do is run a/c, pop some microwave popcorn at the same time or heat up some instant coffee for the grandma while enjoying the cool breeze from the a/c. (Why anyone would want to drink coffee in 90 plus temp is beyond me lol)Thanks for the responses in advance......we are heading out tomorrow for some lake camping with the jet skiis so running the a/c is going to important.........guess i can do w/o the popcorn.

[professor95]

I checked out the link on the "Scosche Boom Stick". The specs do not indicate if measurments are made using A weighting or C weighting. Typically, C weighting is used for music (if you can call boom systems music) and A for a smaller frequency range, which includes the ratings for gasoline generators. When making measurments with my dB meter, there is a 4-5 dB difference between the levels for A and C weights.

If you just intend to compare noise levels from one unit to another, it might be OK. But, if you are looking for accuracy in your measurments, I would be somewhat hesitant to invest in the "Scosche Boom Stick" even with a $20 clearance price.

[dogzpaws]

I saw the "Scosche Boom Stick" at Wal-Mart and the package indicated measurement from 60db to 150db (different than what is on the website though the instrument looks the same). If it truly starts at 60 db I'm not sure it would be a good investment if you are measuring in the 50 to 70 db range. I've noticed sound meters on ebay for reasonable prices - you might check there.

[seseeley]

Anyone have any experience measure genset volumne using the "Scosche Boom Stick" from Walmart?

[Accurate]

I talk to the Parts Pro at Advance Auto Parts where I work part time as AM and he says his good friend owns a lawn mower repair shop and he says that we should use premium fuel in all our small engines.
But other posts here lead me to believe otherwise.
I've gotta feeling that the lawnmower guy only sees engines that won't start or start hard only because their owners neglect them and don't use a stabilizer. So he attributes it 87 octane.
BTW: I am a private pilot and 100LL means 100 Octane-Low Lead it is light blue in color.

So I stick to the manufacturer's recommendation and use Regular gas.
There was another great post on this thread about octane & it made a great deal of sense to me

As far as oil, I use Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 Synthetic. It's engineered for air cooled engines and my Harley's always liked it.
I also went to a cooler plug NGK B8ES (2411)+ I use an engine meter to monitor rpm & hours.

I'm not an RV'er per say, but I do use my gen at hunting camp.
But I bought it primarily to provide back-up power here on Amelia Island.
We have an inordinate amount of power outages here. Plus the last couple years multiple tropical storms that caused extended outages in many places.
So my gen "lives" in the shed you see being lifted over my house. But that's a whole 'nother story.
I back feed my panel from the shed using 10 gauge UF. Separate breaker in the house panel and a GFI in the shed.

Have Fun!!

KenS

[scottz]

Professor95 wrote:
BTW, the cover is $24.95 plus shipping. I think the part number is AWC46535 (better check to be sure - they have 3 different sizes). You can order directly from Champion at the 800 number on the sticker for your generator. The cover also fits other similar Chinese generators, like my ELM3000.

Champion's free number is 877-338-0999.

I have the C46540.
Wheelkit costs $29.99
Cover costs $24.99.

I had to also pay $13.50 for UPS ground shipping.
Rumor has is they will send a free T-Shirt if you mention Professor95.
(I love starting rumors and making them reality)

-ScottZ

[toprudder]

I'm not sure the anti-detonation qualities are the reason why higher octane fuels don't work well in small engines.

Although I've flown model airplane for many years, I just recently started running a gasoline-ignition engine. As a result, I've investigated the use of different fuels and oils.

The instructions for the engine I have recommends 95 octane. I can't find 95 octane at the pumps. I ended up buying 100 LL at the local airport. It smells less than auto gas, and someone told me it has less vapor pressure, which makes sense for aviation fuel. (Might also make it harder to start) Others swear by using Coleman lantern fluid, which is supposed to be very low octane. From what I have been able to find out, the smaller the engines, the less picky they are about octane ratings. Detonation apparently is more of a problem in larger bore engines.

One engine manufacturer told me NOT to use aviation fuel. I asked why, and all he said was that it has lead. I don't know, but leaded fuel seemed to run fine in everything 30 years ago.

Then what oil to use. Amsoil, Belray, Mobil 1, Yamalube, Penzoil. Holy cow, I don't want to get started on THAT topic here!!! 🙂

[MrWizard]

Prof

I wish i could get NON-ethanol here

but almost all of cali is oxygenated

on the bright side, the littel champion 1200 never leaked or had a problem, an it always had some fuel in it unless i got careless and ran out

so the refineries around here must be better had it ( crossed fingers )