3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[prospecter]

harry----
i have one just like it only yellow 🙂
works great runs evrything in 5th wheel..
you will not regert gettin one..
leaven fer az next week fer some prospecting
gen power only on the claims..
good luck

[Harrygoodwrench]

Any opinions on this one? It has electric start and comes with battery. Pretty tempting for 300 bucks.

Genset

[Fiat48]

Reporting back on the Gentron generator. Here is what I found:
#1. The metal drive hub for the recoil starter that attaches to the fan and flywheel was not centered. This cheaply made piece was pressure formed and the hole was not in the center like it should be. This made it run out of round and caused some vibration and also added to the rattle sound the recoil start already makes.
I drilled the hub out and bushed it (I have a lathe and a mill) and fixed that. The generator was smoother after I did that. You might want to check yours.
#2. There is a loud click sound when the motor is approximately TDC on overlap when the motor is turned over by hand. I traced that sound to a flyweight on the camshaft drive gear. Evidently this flyweight is used to retard the camshaft for starting. So its part of design and I am not sure it it makes any noise while the engine is running. It could.
#3. The plastic fan wobbling which I think everyone knows about.
The recoil start unit does rattle no matter what you do. I can run mine without it since it is electric start and some rattle noise are gone. Some but not all.
I am not going to condemn this brand or even this particular unit.
Instead I will condem the owner. Me. 🙂

I wear a hearing aid and if any of you have ever had one then you know they tend to magnify all the sounds you don't want to hear. So I think I am defective and not the generator so i am gonna quit chasing it.

[NYer]

I noticed a problem with my 4000 watt homier generator the other day. My gas gauge was stuck in the empty position. I decided to pull it out to see what the problem was and it turned out to be a very easy fix. I found the gauge was catching when I moved it up and down with the float. After looking at it a few minutes I finally saw that the two plastic parts of the gauge "snag" each other. I shaved two very small spots on the red part of the gauge using a razor blade. It works perfectly now.

[toprudder]

I was in the local Northern Tools store a few days ago, and noticed a "ProForce" generator for $299. It was rated for 2500w continuous, and 3125 ?? surge I believe. It also had a 120/240 switch and a twistlock 120v connector, should be simple to make an adapter for an RV plug.

I really don't need another generator, but I may buy this just to get on the bandwagon. 🙂

[P_J1]

Very nice, thanks for the reply.

That is a bit cheaper than I have been seeing, one B&S at about $29 and the "tiny tach" is closer to $39 most places.

I'll check out Grainger.

[momo44]

P.J wrote:

momo44 wrote:
....I wanted to know when to do my maintenance, so I added an hour meter. This one works on AC or DC, so I wired to the 12V supply after the circuit breaker and it works like a charm!
I guess an enclosure will be next on the list!

Care to share what hour meter you went with, where you got it, how much? I will be adding one when mine gets here Tuesday, just didn't know which one, or where to get it.......... or how:?

Details and pictures of the enclosure project when applicable too.
(Hey, you can't mention these things!)

I'm thinking of making one of those detachable "venturi" exhaust stacks for mine, seems pretty simple.

PJ,

Sorry for the delay in replying...I haven't had time for the forum.
I bought the hourmeter at Grainger. They have a digital one which works on AC or DC, and down to 10V on DC. Two wires - hot and ground - and it does not matter which wire goes where! Almost too easy!!
Price was about $23.00, not too bad for a nice digital meter.
(www.grainger.com search for hour meter)





Enclosure is almost finished...works pretty well for what I need. Light weight and waterproof. Details coming later.

[mbb]

Well, I was torn between the champion rv generator and a subaru RG3200is (which I really, really want, but just dont really really need.). Finally pulled the trigger on the champion. $363 from partsamerica delivered to my door. Dont know why they dont charge sales tax when they have an AdvanceAuto just down the street from me, but I dont care either. :). A big THANK YOU to whoever posted the 10% off sale code, Im not paging back to find out , but that saved $33.

Im using this at the hunting camp primarily, where other idiots have 75-82 db 5000-6000 watt coleman or briggs and stratton generators, so I couldnt justify the quiet ones cost. Another guy has a 6000 watt yamaha that runs about 68db in a metal shed and you can barely hear it with the door open. So I plan to either build a cement block surround or hay bales to block most of the noise. Not portable, but should be quiet.

[Fiat48]

I've checked valve lash which was fine. Found some very sloppy workmanship and loose bolts. But cannot pinpoint the noise. All I can say at this point is it sounds internal. Increasing rpm or decreasing it doesnt change the noise.
What I am going to do now is to find someone local with similar type generator and listen to it run and compare the noises between generators. That will sort out if it just me or the generator.

[Oldfordman]

Fiat48 wrote:
I have run it now with all the recoil start stuff off and the side cover (remember I am electric start). Still have the noise. Metallic noise...not really a ratlle. Valve cover off...that looks ok (pretty chinsy rocker setup but it is just a generator).
Rocking the flywheel back and forth in certain areas I get a metallic rap sound. I have been trying to find out where that is coming from.
Putting a load on the piston with a small screwdriver....the rap sound does not change. That would pretty much rule out piston pin or rod bearing.
Looking at exploded view of engine I see camshaft is gear driven. But looks as if there is an advance or retard mechanism on the cam gear. Picture not good enough to tell.
This could be part of the governor assembly and maybe that rap sound I am getting when turning the flywheel by hand is this assembly and is "normal".
Still digging.

Since you are pretty well torn down, I would go ahead and adjust the valve lash. The mechanism on the cam gear may well be part of a "compression release" that aids starting. The Honda, and their clone engines, are among the easiest starting engines made.

You may not be able to get rid of all the noise you describe and it will be necessary to baffle it off with some noise absorbing material.

[Fiat48]

I have run it now with all the recoil start stuff off and the side cover (remember I am electric start). Still have the noise. Metallic noise...not really a ratlle. Valve cover off...that looks ok (pretty chinsy rocker setup but it is just a generator).
Rocking the flywheel back and forth in certain areas I get a metallic rap sound. I have been trying to find out where that is coming from.
Putting a load on the piston with a small screwdriver....the rap sound does not change. That would pretty much rule out piston pin or rod bearing.
Looking at exploded view of engine I see camshaft is gear driven. But looks as if there is an advance or retard mechanism on the cam gear. Picture not good enough to tell.
This could be part of the governor assembly and maybe that rap sound I am getting when turning the flywheel by hand is this assembly and is "normal".
Still digging.

[Oldfordman]

Several comments have been made in this thread as well as others on the "Chinese Clone Generators" regarding noise that may be resonating from the gas tank. I have a Champion RV ready that does make a little more noise when the tank is near empty than when full. I also noticed some noise that appeared to be caused by resonant vibration from the air cleaner cover.

Having spent a lot of years in the tire business, I went to my "junk drawer" and dug out some taped lead wheel weight material that is used on "mag" wheels. A couple of 3 oz. pieces taped to the center of the top panels (one on each side of the fill cap) and another 3 oz. piece taped to the center of the air cleaner cover (which is thin plastic) made a noticable difference. These panels no longer resonate easily, thus reducing the added noise they caused.

Also, have been looking at making a sound enclosure. After researching on Accoustic Damping materials, I made an interesting discovery. "Cellotex" is still relatively inexpensive, dampens sound real well, doesn't weigh much, and is making a big comeback in the building industry because of it's sound deadening qualities.

Other brands are available and also offer good temp resistant qualities.

When finished, pictures will be posted.

[Oldfordman]

Fiat48 wrote:
The noise is not the fan. The noise is metallic. Like something rattling but yet inside the engine.
I called GeneratorDepot.us and they say take to mechanic (which I pay for)...call them and tell them what parts are needed (warranty is parts only for 1 year).

So that is the story at this point. I have been a mechanic for 35 years so I guess I will go in farther myself to see what the problem is.

At this point...I would stay away from the Gentron...especially till I know more.

Another source of noise similar to what you describe is from the recoil starter pawls. These little "ratchets" have springs that have to be soft enough to let them fly out and catch the teeth on the flywheel hub for starting but also keep them from rattling when the engine is running. I have a lawnmower that will rattle like you describe if the starter cord is extended the least bit. In my case, the cord is just a little too long for the recoil spring. It has to be shortened (I just let the wife mow the lawn and she doesn't complain about the noise).

This might be something to take a look at.

[Fiat48]

The noise is not the fan. The noise is metallic. Like something rattling but yet inside the engine.
I called GeneratorDepot.us and they say take to mechanic (which I pay for)...call them and tell them what parts are needed (warranty is parts only for 1 year).

So that is the story at this point. I have been a mechanic for 35 years so I guess I will go in farther myself to see what the problem is.

At this point...I would stay away from the Gentron...especially till I know more.

[Fiat48]

Yeah...LOL...RTV...as in silicone seal. Must have had ATV on the brain.;)
Waiting for my cure time now. Got it all mounted on the front of the trailer.